Wizcrafts

I enjoy our chats also. But, today isn't a good day for me to argue. I just lost one very good friend this afternoon and another is in critical condition in a hospital with colon cancer.

DC, you can use whatever machines you want, within their capacities and limitations. I have 11 sewing machines, between home and industrial. I don't try to sew leather with my 1916 Singer 66-1 and conversely, I don't try to sew shirts and stuffed animals with my Cowboy CB4500. Different machines have different mechanisms, strengths and weaknesses. You are willing and able to push your classic household machines to their ultimate limits, confident that if something breaks, you can fix it. Most of the folks who are doing leather sewing on this forum and asking about leather sewing machines, are first time machine sewers. They often have no background in repairing or adjusting sewing machines. When they do invest in a leather stitcher, most want one that will exceed their current requirements, rather than barely meet them. They don't want to have to fight with a feed system, or cut back to a smaller size of thread, because their machine isn't capable of handling the type of leather, thickness, or thread size they prefer to use. That is what drove me to seek and obtain bigger and better sewing machines, after beginning with a Singer 96k40 straight stitch, no-reverse tailoring machine. Please don't take my comments about old iron personally. I admire what you are doing with these machines. If you are able to sew your guitar straps on a model 28 hand-crank unit, that's great! I just prefer to use a servo motor equipped walking foot machine, with #138 or #207 thread, when I sew guitar straps and rifle slings. My smallest needle is a #23 when sewing these jobs. My big needle on a household machine is a #18, with #69 thread. Where there is a difference, viva la difference!

I should have clarified what I meant by "old Singer iron." I was referring to old household style machines, line my 15-91 and model 66-1

You could have just dipped liquid, hardening tool coating into the teeth to fill the gaps. I use Tool Magic, available from craft stores. When it wears off I redip the parts.

That's a nice machine DC. Maybe someday you'll join the big dogs and get a heavy leather stitcher. They are like night and day, compared to old small iron. I know, I have both kinds of machines. It's nice to have beautiful old machines to look at and see how thick they will sew. But, they are unlike the 441 clones, or a Union Lockstitch machine. With old Singer iron, one maxes out at about 5/16 inch and #69 thread. With a 441 clone, one maxes out at 7/8 inch and #415 thread. Yet, just tonight I was able to rethread my Cowboy CB4500 with #92 thread and sew some seed-beaded bracelets together. It was tricky, but it did the job. I have other machines better suited to this kind of gentle work, buy I like pushing my machines both ways. In fact, I sometimes sew beaded work on my 1916 Class 66.

My solution, back when, was to purchase a Union Lockstitch machine. Lacking any feed dog, having a jump foot and needle feed, it did the trick for giving a finished result on both sides, with the thickest thread available at the time (#554). I'm now on my second ULS, which I am trying to sell to raise money to fix my car for an extended trip to Lompock and Azzuza. My Cowboy CB4500 (a 441 clone) has taken over the job of heavy sewing, with #277 or #346 thread, so I don't need that harness machine anymore.

I have promoted these machines in the past, for middle weight sewing, to people lacking the funds to buy a 441 clone, or better machine. When I got into leatherwork and sewing, in the mid-1980s, the Juki 441 hadn't been released yet. The Adler 205 had just arrived, but very few companies could afford the steep price tag. So, I made do with machines, like the Singer 45K, with a roller on top and feed dog on the bottom. After sewing items together, I used a modeling spoon, or slicker, or Cobbler's hammer to smooth out the tooth and pucker marks. I don't recall hearing any customers complain about tooth marks or needle puckers on the back. Some users of the CB2500 and GA5-1 will lay the sewn piece on a clean steel bar, place another clean steel bar on top, then pound with a mallet until the marks are subdued. If you are sewing harness or bridle leather it is much easier to rub out marks and puckers. For those who are able to purchase a 441 clone, like the ones that Techsew Ronnie, Cowboy Bob and Cobra Steve sell, these are better machines for sewing 1/2 inch, or more. They have greater capacity for thicker materials and heavier pressure springs. Having two feet splits the load across a wider path, as the needle ascends. The inside foot is directly over the stitch line and needle and exerts pressure where is really needs to be. Bottom feeders may have a split toe foot, or single toe, but there is always a gap between the toe and the needle. That gap is where the failure to hold down the work can occur. On the other hand (she wore a glove!), if you mainly sew things ranging from 3/8 inch up to 7/16 inch, a GA5-1R, or CB2500 may serve you well. If your straps are lined with suede, nobody will notice the tracks on the bottom. There may be a noticeable path on top, depending on how much you crank down the presser foot spring. Finally, these middle weight bottom feeders are not geared towards light weight sewing. The needles are not normally stocked in smaller sizes required to sew with light thread. Who wants to use a #23 needle to sew with #69 thread? Nobody! The holes will be ginormous! But, if your work is mostly with #138 through #346 thread, and is usually between 3/8 to 7/16 inch, these machines may be right for you. You can probably raise the foot to sew 1/2 inch, but the pressure spring may not be able to hold down the leather as the needle ascends. I know some forum members have bought GA5-1R machines from Ronnie and CB2500s from Bob. Maybe some of them will read this and talk about their opinions of those machines, and the work they are doing with them.

Definitely contact Nick-O Sewing since they are in your State. Otherwise, Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines services all makes and models, including Singer industrial sewing machines. Their number is 866-362-7397

Yes, assuming it does sew properly, without any binding or grinding. Try it before you buy it. These are very old machines. If they have extra needles, bobbin cases and thread, so much the better. However, this is going to be a very old machine, possibly with an equally old clutch motor. If the clutch grabs, or never fully releases, it will need to be rebuilt or replaced. That will reduce the value of the machine by about $100. Wink wink, nudge nudge, sai no more!

Here is a photo of the flywheel on my Union Lockstitch Machine. This 60+ pound, two part clutch/flywheel flywheel really smooths out its operation. Here is a photo of my Cowboy CB4500, showing how huge its 30+ pound flywheel is. Both of these machines have incredible punching power at very slow speeds. Their smooth slow speed operating capabilities are due in large part to these humongous flywheels, as well as the incredibly big take-up parts, shafts and bearings. Everything on them is super-sized, so that they can use very heavy thread, very large needles and very thick leather.

Try to ascertain if the pump works as the machine spins. If so, tilt the head back on its hinges and pour a liter of oil into the oil pan. Try to sew at at least 1500 rpm to maintain good pump pressure to distribute the oil to all extremities of the wicks and tubes. These machines may stop pumping needed oil at slower speeds (like 1000 rpm or less). Self oiling, pump equipped machines do not operate properly at slower leather work speeds.

You're welcome! The cutout tapered area on the shuttle driver points the loop up on the right side of the needle, just before the hook arrives. One can advance or retard the arrival of the shuttle driver and hook to fine tune the timing, as per your sewing requirements and techniques. If the machine was sold setup for a #27 needle to clear the hook, but you are using a #20 needle with #92 thread, you may need to change the timing to get enough loop for the hook to catch as it passes by with more lateral clearance than is optimum..

Please take a look at this thread and needle size chart on the Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines website.

Juki makes the actual 441 machine. It is now model TSC-441, which sells for over $5,000 US. These machines are setup to sew thick cloth, webbing, parachutes, tents, tow ropes and other thick cloth and man-made materials. They require modifications for change them into dedicated leather sewing machines. The first mod is the presser feet and feed dog. Then the motor system, then the lift system. The rest is classified.

I seems to me that I get better loops using Schmetz needles than Organ. Both sew fine in forward, but sometimes when I sew in reverse, Organ needles may form a smaller loop than Schmetz and I get skipped stitches. Spinning the work 180 degrees and sewing in forward solves the problem, which should not occur at all on a well-timed machine. I notice this issue mostly on my Cowboy CB4500 and National 280N walking foot machines and my buddy's Cobra Class 4. The Schmetz needles seem to form a bigger loop to the right and skip less. I wish I could get them in all the sizes I use on these machines (in leather point), but I sometimes have to use what I can get at the time. I played around with the timing on a couple of horizontal axis machines and found something very interesting happening. As the needle begins to ascent on a closely timed machine, a cutaway in the shuttle driver causes the loop to be formed just above the bottom of the eye of the needle. If that cutaway section hits too soon, it blocks the formation of the loop for a few critical degrees of rotation. If it hits too late, nothing is added to assist the formation of the loop. There is an exact moment and time and space when the cutaway in the driver aids in the formation of a good loop. Every machine will be different and may need to be fine-timed by eye and hand rotation. This trick only seems to work if the shuttle driver has a cutaway area facing the needle and reaches the eye on the upstroke, just before the pick-up point intersects the eye and loop. I may take a picture of this positioning and post it in a reply.

You'll have to ask someone who actually has that machine and has tried it. I can tell you that I have a National walking foot machine that I modified to sew leather and it will not sew #277 thread into 3/8 inch without great difficulty and some skipped stitches. You would have to specifically have the machine adjusted and times for just that thread and needle size. The power required to punch through this much leather is beyond many motors, unless there is a speed reducer wheel between the motor and machine. Some members have modified the flywheels on theirr walking foot machines to use very large diameter pulleys sold a tractor supply stores. Those machines sew about 2 stitches per second, top speed and can punch through 3/8 inch+ with a #25 needle and #277 thread. Frankly, you would be better off with this type of machine for sewing 3/8+ inch with #277 or 346 thread.

I was referring to finding #26 leather point needles in series 135x16. I know that this needle type is very common. It is the #26 leather point that is not so easy to get in this series. Still, I'll bet that Ronnie, Gregg or Bob have some, in a dusty drawer, somewhere.

That would work a lot better. I used to have a pack of #26 needles, in type 135x16 and the machine had a hard time penetrating even 1/4 inch of leather. The pounding caused the needle bar to move in its mount, throwing the timing out. The needle got stuck in the leather from friction and the thread became ratted. It was not worth the trouble it caused. There are machines that are set up to sew with big needles and thicker thread and it is best to use them for #277 or larger thread jobs.

I should warn you that if you buy a machine from China and have it drop shipped to you, it will be a crapshoot as to its sewability out of the box. Most of the dealers I have spoken to have to spend between 4 and 8 hours fixing problems with Chinese machines and adjusting them, tightening loose screws and setting the needlebar and timing, filing bad castings, adding paint where it is missing, assembling the motor and table and balancing the tensions to sew off test samples.

My bad. So, there is a GA3-1 machine after all! I can't see any of the usual walking foot parts in that reversed photo. I guess you will have to go see for yourself. If it does have walking feet, there will be inside and outside feet that alternate up and down, while one moves forward and backward, lifting between stitches. The outside foot may be pulled, or on a spring the fires it forward as the feeder drops. These are pseudo-walking foot machines. Bring a few 8-10 ounce strips of leather to see how much leather can fit under the foot. If they have thread, try sewing the stack of leather. It should be capable of sewing up to 28-30 ounces of leather. I hope for your sake that the photo has been flipped and not the machine itself.With the manual visible in photo #2, it sure looks like a left handed machine to me.

If you use a #26 leather point needle, you may be able to form knots with #346 on top and #277 in the bobbin. Finding these needles is like finding hen's teeth.

That is a misnomer. The machine is actually a GA5-1. Our dealer, Techsew, sells it with reverse, as the Techsew GA5-1R, already setup to sew leather. Our Dealer Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines sells a comparable machine known as the Cowboy CB2500. These machines are based on the Singer 45K machines, of long, long ago (The Old Lamplighter days) and can sew 7/16 inch of leather with very thick thread. They are bottom feeders only and will mark the bottom layer. A good spooning or pounding with a Cobbler's Hammer will usually hide the tooth and needle pucker marks.

I guess the one I used to have was missing that feeder. I had to move the shoes manually to stitch them. PITA! It would be nice to have another one, but RedDevil76 may want it more than I do. I would rather have a curved needle Frobana.

YES! Where did you get it? Does it sew and move the leather along on its own, or do you have to move the shoe manually?