KenE

Thanks Hilly. I am starting to come to the same conclusion about the leather. As far as saving this piece I might try a darker brown first, you can always make it black later if it doesn't work out! )

Here I am again with another project gone bad. I'm afraid this piece might get the "total Black" treatment as it now looks bad and is not worth much in its present condition. I've attached the before and after pics. They dye did not seem to soak into the leather in some places, causing a very light blotchy areas, even after multiple water diluted applications (recommended by Tandy class to get even coverage). Here is what I did and the materials used: - Tooled leather (Tandy's #2 stuff....) - Cleaned with Oxalic Acid solution and let dry several hours. - Dyed with Eco Flo Tan Canyon dye, diluted 5:1 (about 4-5 applications of dye, trying to get it to even out...) - Dyed background with Tan Canyon 3:1 solution (This didn't seem to come out too well...) Any ideas? I have some Angelus Dye and some Herman Oak being shipped from Springfield leather as we speak. I'm hoping I can blame it on the leather and dye, but I'd like to identify any technique problems before ruining another piece! I did want to add that after looking at this post that one of the "before" pictures has a discoloration in the leather that was picked up by the camera flash. Are there artifacts in the leather that cause it to dye unevenly? Should I just wait and try the Herman Oak and not look back? Thanks.

Welcome aboard. I'm from Southern NH myself.

I got the Iwata coming in from the coast place. I got it from them on Ebay with free shipping. The seat looks real nice. I usually don't like the latigo lace, but the way you did it with the basketweave pattern actually looks different and clean. I also bought a 60 Gallon Campbell Hausfeld compressor from Lowes the other day. I'm going to get a low pressure regulator and dessicant unit for it as well. How did you get your background so nice and dark, as well as that deep grid texture? Mine always looks uneven, not very dark, and a fine grid pattern. What tool do you use?

Springfield has the Fiebings antique paste, it doesn't seem to be available from Tandy. I'm going to pick up some black, and maybe the Burgundy (based on the recommendation above) to try.

RickyFro, This seat looks like some kind of Red. You think the different leathers brought out the color from the brown dye? I was looking at the Angelus due to recommendations from others, I might pick up some bottles to sample. Thanks again, ~Ken

Tom, Thanks man! I was looking at the Iwata HP-BCS already, but it is really nice to get a recommendation from someone who has done alot of airbrushing and some leatherwork too. I think the $90 is money well spent if it is a good tool. I am afraid if I use an inferior tool for something like this I may never venture into detail work, or I may become turned off by airbrushes in general. I'm thinking I can buy alot of the bottles and store my die in them so they are ready to go, easy cleanup. I'm assuming I will need to spray some denatured alcohol or water through the airbrush to clean it after use or between colors, depending on the dye). Perhaps a basic airbrush book would be helpful for this kind of thing. As always, thanks to Dave for the inspiration and help for us Newbies. ~Ken

I had alot of problems with the "Tejas Lace Company" brand bought at tandy, 1/8" width, made in India. While pulling the lace through the holes (especially on mexican basketweave) the splices would begin to fray and then they would break at that point. I just don't have the time or energy to deal with this while lacing, it is time consuming enough as it is.

I know this is an older post, but I just came across these pictures and have been searching for this rich dark "blood red" color. What color/brand did you use and did you have to do any color mixing? I'm assuming the black is a result of antiquing? Nice looking seat.

Hello, I'm a newbie motorcycle seat maker/leatherworker as well. I have a few seats under my belt now and still have (alot of ) improvements I need to make, but I thought I could share some comments. As far as the lacing, it looks as if your holes are quite far apart for 1/8" stuff, and perhaps a bit too big. Its hard to say because I don't have a real good sense of scale. I have only used the "pro lace" from tandy and I tend to go with 4-5 holes per inch (0.20" - 0.25") with that lace. 0.225" works pretty good. Usually the same distance in from the edge too. I had a real hard time finding out what to use on this and in the end I got some general numbers and tried lacing a bunch of practice strips with some crap leather. I recommend this so you get the results you like. I also want to step up to the 1/4" kangaroo lace, I hear you can get away with 0.375" or more in the spacing department which should save a TON of time due to the number of holes being reduced. Supposedly the Kangaroo lace is almost unbreakable (I'd like to test that!). I've broken alot of the pro lace from tandy and it is really frustrating. Admittedly I need to make the seat patterns slightly bigger so I'm not trying to stretch the snot out of them while lacing. Alot of the pros seem to use airbrushing for the dye, so you are lucky you are already set up for this. I'd be interested in any tips coming from an airbrush artist. I was thinking of buying a cheap harbor freight brush just to apply the dye because some folks here have had good luck with them. I'm wondering if they are good enough as long as you don't require very fine detail. Any info on this approach would be appreciated. If you want to go traditional apply the dye in stages with wool remnants. I was told to dilute the dye and apply it in multiple coats in order to control the uniformity. 3 parts dye and 1 part thinner is a good place to start (always use practice pieces first). This seems to work well because the straight dye application can sometimes absorb into the leather at different rates and then you scramble to put thinner (water or spirit thinner depending on the dye you use) over it and try to rub it all together like a madman trying to blend it into a uniform color. I have been told that thinning when using an airbrush is redundant and tend to believe that. Personally I'd try to stay away from using antique until you master it with several practice pieces. Getting the resist right and getting a feel for the process is somewhat difficult and I think doing it on a whole bike seat will be tough at first (I botched one of my tooled seat tops this way). Your tooling looks nice, I can't believe this is one of your first few pieces. Did a customer generate the art, or did you just draw it as an example piece to show your work? I'm having some issues selling some of my seats on ebay and I wonder if some of it has to do with the fact that the customer wants a very particular design on their seat (I can't blame them...I just need to start somewhere...). ~Ken

I have some tandy medium brown and it seems OK. Its really dark for a dye, I would not use it as an "all in one" dye/antique. Some guys I've heard like the black because it appears more classic, but I have not tried it. I'd like to try the Fiebings paste, but I can't justify buying more product right now.

These are all good suggestions. It really shows how you need to get both a process and a feel for what it needs to look like. I did some test pieces with the RTC and the tandy antique and it did show up alot better. I applied the RTC and let it dry tot he touch(<1 hour) and then applied some more to guarantee the top pores were sealed. This seemed to do the trick.

Hello, I want to invest in some 1/4" Kangaroo lace for my motorcycle seats, but I can't afford to get every color right now. Is it possible to buy a natural product and dye it with my project once laced? Also for some projects I might want to "dip" dye it a certain color to get a contrast with the color of the seat. I was looking at Springfield leather and they have some of the natural product, is this a good fit for what I'm doing? I've used some 1/8" lacing before on seats and it seems to tear at the glue seam, and also the 1/8" lacing takes forever to do because the spacing is so small to cover up your seam. Thanks, ~Ken

Not to sound obvious, but covering up a cut will probably be pretty tricky. You will probably always see it, its just a matter of "lessening" the blemish. Have you tried flattening it out with the modeling spoon? I'd say to glue the cut, but then when you dye the piece it will come out with a spot where the glue is if you don't do it perfectly. Can you post pictures of the mistake?

Hello, I did one heavy coat with the Bee Natural RTC on both items. I think I am going to try and give it two heavy coats next time wtih some drying time in between. It might be like polyurethane on wood, the first coat soaks right in and you need a second coat to go on top of the first to back it up and get whatever areas it might have soaked in too deeply. Thanks for the tips guys, and what to look for. ~Ken

Hello, I used the same technique on two different pieces and got very different results. I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me on what I'm doing wrong. The only thing different is that the bookmark piece did not have a base die added, it was left natural. Here is my technique, each step allows drying of at least 8 hours before the next: - Dye with Echo Flo Water based die, diluted for even application and desired color. - Apply two medium heavy coats of Bee Natural Saddle oil. - Apply Bee Natural RTC antique resist. - Apply Echo Flo "Gel Antique" (Med Brown) and remove immediately. - Apply Bee Natural RTC resist to seal in the antique. As you can see from the pics, the Coaster is decent looking, but the bookmark is trashed. The antique somehow got under the resist or died the resist itself, I'm not sure which. I might try stripping the coating with deglazer and dying it something dark, but its probably ruined. Should I just buy the Fiebings black antique paste and ditch the Eco Flo antique to get that "sheridan" antique look, or am I doing something wrong?

That looks pretty good. The belt is not bad either. This type of thing might be popular at the medieval fairs. Don't worry about being traditional. If I were to add a comment of critique I would just say to maybe use some eyelets on the holes, I think they make it look more finished (Not that there is anything wrong with the holes, just a style thing...).

I was experimenting with some celtic stamps myself. I took an image and with some help from a co-worker (i.e. at my day job) we made a stamp on an engraving machine. We were quickly finding the limitations of trying to make the stamp using the engraver software. What type of CAD/CAM program did you use? Is the stamp made from a rapid prototype machine?

I just bought some Bee Natural oil and applied it over some Eco Flo dyed test coupons today. I let the leather dry for about 4 hours (they are 1.5" round cutouts for sake of testing) and then applied the #1 saddle oil. No real discoloration noticeable. BTW, I checked out the Harbor freight airbrush kit mentioned and it is on sale for $15. Does this thing really work well? I've got burned from them before, but then again I can't justify spending a ton of money for a pro quality airbrush at this point. I want an airbrush to apply dye mainly. I want to get that faded out look or " dark around the edges" look. I may want to do fine detail at some point to accent tooling and do some background darkening. Thanks, ~Ken

I read from someone else in this forum to make the top and bottom patterns the same. That is to say, if you use 3/4" foam on the seat to add half of that (i.e. 3/8" ) to the seat pan pattern. I then make a "half pattern" out of thick poster board that represents one half of the leather cutout. Then use the wing divider trick to mark equally spaced holes around the "half pattern". I then transfer the holes by using a finely sharpened scribe tool to go through the poster board into the leather. To do the other side of the leather simply flip the half-pattern around your centerline and continue on. IT makes a really repeatable result and is safer than marking your leather up with a wing divider and risk scratching it. BTW, I love the airbrush look, it makes the seat look like my fender Guitar, beautiful. I think I'm going to buy one. I keep telling my wife that I'm going to make money off of leatherwork, but I keep buying more tools and materials and not selling anything! This too will come to pass. I think you just need to reach a certain level of skill and get some notoriety before things start selling. Thats what I keep telling myself anyway! ) ~Ken

Hello, I don't mean to sound like a commercial for them, but I found other posts about Bee Natural products. I just bought their RTC sealer/finish and their saddle oil. It looks like the process if very similar and they have a video on their website: (All steps have drying time after, usually at least 5 hours) - Apply any die you want as a base - Oil with saddle oil - Apply RTC finish - Antique - Apply RTC finish I'm hoping this works because I like the idea of using as little products as possible. I'll report my experience. (I'm waiting for some dye to dry right now). ~Ken

Hello, I am not an expert, but in my experience you need to die your leather (unless you want the natural look) and then seal it really good before using the eco flo gel antiques. From what I understand the traditional way to do "Sheridan" antique is to dye, oil, sealer/resist, antique, and seal/resist again. I'm in the middle of doing some experiments on some circle cutouts to test Bee Natural saddle oil and RTC finish over Eco Flo Dye. Unfortunately you have to wait a long time in between your experiments to let everything dry! I've used the Eco Flo "Super Sheen" as a resist successfully, but I'm not sure I'd use it for outdoor gear. I think you are better off using a natural oil/wax based finish that will let some oils penetrate the leather for years of upkeep. The Eco flo super shene acts like an acrylic paint and (I'm guessing) will resist any additional oil later on. When I have successfully used the gel antique has been with practice pieces (Keychains, drink coasters, etc). I've used dye, let it dry for 8 hours or so, applied super shene liberally, let that dry for 8 hours or so, then apply antique gel liberally. Usually a damp cloth is needed to wipe away all the gel and help it penetrate the tooling stamps/cuts. Let this dry for several hours and then hit it with the super shene again to seal in the antique. ~Ken

Hello, I'm looking for a "one product" solution to sealer/finish/protector for leather motorcycle seats. Does the Bee Natural RTC add enough oils to the leather to keep it relatively waterproof, but still allow conditioner/treatment later on? Some other people seem to like adding Neatsfoot after dyeing. Would the RTC product take the place of this? Thanks, ~Ken

Thanks everyone for the advice and kind words. I called Springfield and they seem really cool over there and I think their current special for HO leather sounds like a sweet deal. ~Ken

RickyFro, When using this method of adding 3/8 to the seat pan dimensions for the top and bottom pattern, do you tend to have to stretch the heck out of the leather while it is being laced, or does the foam compress enough to compensate? While we are at it, do you trim your foam exactly to the pan, or do you round off the top with a sander/shaper tool? Thanks alot! I know this seems pretty simple to make a seat like this, but after hours of stretching and fighting with leather and foam it is nice to hear what works for others! I think it took me over 15 hours to lace my last seat, mostly because I was fighting with the leather and had a hard time pulling the needle through the holes. I think the holes need to be upsized... I was trying to get the result of no hole being seen but it just isn't worth it IMHO. The mexican basketweave is difficult on that part where the lace loops back and goes through a previously occupied hole. I originally started with 1/8" lacing using the smallest hole size on the rotary punch. I ended up resizing the holes two steps larger by the time I was done lacing just because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to finish the seat, it was .. an interesting experience. ~Ken