WyomingSlick

one thing lacing really has over saddle stitching is that you do it while comfortably slouched on the couch watching the telly ... multi-tasking, ya know?

Just buy some glovers needles and drill a hole in whatever tickles your fancy for a handle, and mount the needle in there. Since they come in very small sized you should be able to make a fine of an awl as you want, plus they will allready be plenty sharp

I haven't seen many books that deal with only with leather history as I suspect it does not appeal to enough people to warrent the costs of publishing a book.. Most of what I have seen has been in magazines such as the Leather Craftsman and all of it's various reincarnations through the years. Of course there is some information to be found in many of the books that focus primarily on how to do the various operations involved in leather tooling and fabrication. The situation is that when it comes to learning about leather, it is a difficult process as much of the information is buried away in old magazines and some oldtimer's heads.......and there is some misinformation waundering around out there. For example, there are people on this forum that will aver that copper rivets are stronger than brass rivets! lol But don't be discouraged because there are a lot of facts and useful information out there if you look hard for it. Trivia: The term "suede" comes from the French. The Swedish actually developed the process for making the soft buffed finish leather and it became popular in France where the word for Swede, or Swedish, was suede. When you see a pair of cowboy boots that are made from elephant, know that you are looking from leather that came from the elephant's ears. It is the only part that is thin enough to be easily into leather as the rest of the elephant's hide can be up to 4 inches thick ! Leatherworking is one of the oldest working professions of humans. Bone needles used for sewing leather have been found that date back at least 30,000 years and perhaps as far back as 100,000 years.

Hell, I am aready in the doghouse, so I'll say it Nothing there that is amazing except the asking price

If you want your fringe to look better than the amateur one in the picture........cut the fringe at an angle so that it naturaly hangs straight down instead of the awkward way the fringre does in the picture

The only thing I know of that fits your description are the letter sets that Nocona Belt Company had available to their dealers for using to make belts with filigreed names on them. These sets do come up on eBay every once in a while and usually go for 90 bucks or more.. You might want to contact the company and see if they have sets available for sale

Just because things show a similar appearance does not mean that they share a common origin. I would suspect that the shape of the ULU used by the Eskimos, and other native peoples, is derived from the shape of the sea shells originally used by those people as tools for cutting, chopping, skinning, scraping, etc.. and has little relationship to the standard head knife as used by leatherworkers for quite some time now. I would think that head knives are descended from pikes, war axes. and other such halfmoon shaped implements and probably date back to Roman Times

There is no point is having a tool that doesn't make you happy to have it. If this knife doesn't take and hold the edge you want, you do have the option of trying a re-tempering of it. Since a head knife is generally not subject to the shocks and stresses that other knife blades encounter, it may be worth your time to remove the handle and try retempering to a higher temperature than is generally used for knives. If you haven't any experiance with that skill, there is a lot of info on the internet that will get you started in aquiring that very useful skill

LOL Just a few observations..... You decry the "cheapskates that make up a majority of the local horse owning clientele", and yet you run around with some old $5 purse you picked up at a rummage sale? Perhaps you should think about what you hate about purses.........and then design and make a purse that incorporates the best of your thinking and workmanship.. You might find that it appeals to other women who share your dislikes and preferances, and thus find a profitable "niche market" of your own.

I wouldn't be too sure of that myself. My mom collected hundreds of them and I sure don't remember seeing any like that. That is, with a handle that aparently hooks into the plate.. Does it have feet on the bottiom? Because that is a universal feature of trivets, the idea being to keep the hot container away from the countertop or table.

Just bought a set that had one of the Z tools in it so I did an evaluation. In one word..........or two...... CRAP ! or JUNK ! Didn't matter so much that the tool was formed by molding or that the finish sucked.......but any stamp that bent as easily as this thing did ain't much good for much of anything..

Well, for darn sure you need to dress up that mushrooming with a grinder or file.. They only give you one pair of eyes and you can't really buy replacements that work well, ya know. !

I have to disagree. I don't think this forum can claim to having the best information. That is still to be found in the many instruction books that offer in-depth detailed knowledge. However, this forum can claim to having considerable breadth of information ranging from unfounded opinions based mostly on misinformation that people have heard or read......all the way to opinions that are based on considerable experiance and actual investigation of the subject. You also do have those who may be short in time of experiance, but have shown remarkably innovative, and surprisingly, creative approaches to working with leather. Unfortunately, those are in a minority to those whose big deal is their latest "boned holster", or their ability to sew with slanted stitches. Yawn ! As to "why did good leather instruction and pattern books begin and end with Al Stohlman?" The fact is that the man was a GIANT and he left very big footprints. Why not so many good books since him? First, it is a monumental task to write and prepare an instructional book for publication. It helps a lot to have a partner like Ann Stohlman who played a major role in the development of the later books. Second, and very important.......what is the incentive to produce such a book these days when due to available technology; pirated copies of your book might well be freely available for the taking on the internet within weeks. Ask Peter Main how he feels aboout that? I've also noticed that many beginners seem to be reluctant to spend a little cash for books and patterns to learn with, and of those that do, some of them seem to not have read them. Time after time, we have beginners on here who haven't even grasped the fact that the leather has to be cased properly to take and retain tooling. LOL Some of them haven't even picked up on the fact that some leather is not conductive to tooling. Favorites Al Stohlman books - I would add Craftool Tech Tips to your list. Only 25 pages but every page is must have valuable information for the leather tooler.

LOL Suppose I should steal his design and sell them for $500 over here???? Kind of a reversal of all the knock-offs of western inventions they have made over the years in the East ??

LOL Ok folks, I appreciate all of your input, but what I really was wanting was to hear from somebody who actually bought the tools from one of the ebay auctions that described them as stainless". If you have bought one of these sets, it is a simple manner to determine if they are stainless steel or not with a magnet test. Stainless steel tools will not attract a magnet, or will attract only weakly compared to a steel tool.......depending on the alloy composition. Now while it does seem unlikely that these are actually stainless steel alloy tools........it is not impossible.....perhaps?? Checking on the ebay "sold" lists, quite a few of these have been sold and I was just thinking perhaps someone here may have bought them. I would contact the seller, but from past experiance, I have not had a great deal of luck bridging the language gap with our eastern cousins. And yes, they are very poorly shaped tools......mostly suited only for kids and other beginners.....but at less than 2 bucks a tool, certainly nothing to bitch about. Hell. at that price you could use the more ornamental ones to make a fancy hat/coat rack ! LOL See.....I have been thinking about what to do with them if I bought them and they were not stainless steel. Speaking of the eastern stuff on ebay........anybody have any input on what are described as "white steel" chisels and pricking irons? P.S. I don't need any info about Craftools. I have probably forgot more than most people know on that subject

Does anybody know for sure if the stamping tools listed in this eBay auction are actually stainless steel tools or are they calling chrome plated tools "stainless" ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/20Pcs-Stainless-Steel-Leather-Carving-Engrave-Butterfly-Drop-Tools-Stamp-Sets-/131241953473?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e8ea148c1#ht_2945wt_1306 LOL I was thinking that if they really were stainless, I could take some of them and modify them into some actually useful tools. The metal lathe work they would save me would be considerable

The wood handled tools are the very cheapest and crappiest of wood carving chisels made in the orient and sold in catalogs and discount stores since the Korean War, The next thing.......tweezers? Then we have a leather modeling tool of the deerfoot type that is missing it's grip. hen we have a swivel knife that is sold for cutting stencils and similar tasks for crafts like tole paintng. scrapbooking, etc. Last is a normal modeling tool made in the 70's to 80's judging from the red rubber handle.

Thank you I think your guy with his "Parkerized" observation may have something there. It may be the zinc type, rather than the more commonly seen manganese parkerization which produces the dark grey matte finish most often seen on firearms. Apparently, the zinc process can result in the greenish tinge we have both observed on some of these stamps, but initially it is the frosty silver tone we see. About that Visalia Fire.....didn't anybody make an attempt to recover the stamps? I wouldn't have thought the fire would have been so hot as to destroy them. Provenance? LOL Other than the 30 or so stamps my Dad bought when he was in the Army in the early 50s, I would have to say most everything I have collected is totally lacking in that aspect. I am doing good just to find an old catalog or brochure that shows the tools. And unlike the utility tools that you deal in, seldom is anything more than just the tool impression shown. For example, here are some tool pages from a "Handicraft Supplies" catalog from J.C.Larsen Company, Chicago , Illinois that I am deducing is from the late 40's judging by the prices shown for the various other tools (knives. hole punches, awls, etc) they offered. What caught my attention was the round heels on their bevelers which are like the stamps we have been discussing. However, the rest of the stamps in the catalog seem to be a poor match and of course the numbers for these "steel" stamps match exactly with the same system used by Craftool Actually when you get down to specifics with the "frostys", they seem to have been patterened after McMillens more than any others. Of interest also is that Larsen also sold the Handigrip modeling tools which seem to be fairly rare. I am surprised that more of these are not found since just like the catalog page says, they are better tools than the other modeling tools of that era. I particularly like that your fingers are much closer to the work and more comfortable in use. .

All of those things are available in plastics which don't rust

So, why isn't the attachment of the two tools being displayed in this post?

Yup, that would be them........same finish, same round end on shaft, and the same removal of finish on the business end. Those would fit right in with these others of mine. So,can you tell us anything else about them?

To be honest, while I consider myself to be fairly knowledgable about Craftools......somewhat knowledgable about RBS and Cal Carved stamps.....when it comes to other early Toolmakers, I am pretty much in the dark. I know that there are those out there who claim to be able to tell a McMillian from others, but unless it is one of the more elaborate set stamps that I can find in the old catalogs, I just plain can't say. If it is a common beveler, shader, seeder, bargrounder, etc., than I don't see how you can tell some of them apart. Some of my old tools can be seen to be made by the same maker because of common characteristics ie. length, knurling, finish, etc. but who those makers were, seems to be lost to history. For instance, there was at least one maker who was located somwhere in the New England States, perhaps Boston......but that is not for sure. and I have never found a name to assign to them. These stamps all seem to have what I believe is a zinc coating that is kind of a frosted silver in appearance, as well as being much alike in their knurling and tool profiles. So, when it come to putting a name to old unmarked stamps, I am very hesitant. That applies even to old chromeplated, or even unplated stamps that walk like a Craftool, quack like a Craftool, and look like a Craftool. The fact is that early Craftools were made by various differant makers and it was actually the stamping of the name on the tool that primarily defined them as a Craftool. Take Ellis Barnes for instance. He made tools for Bill Wheeler at CalCarved, Dick McGahen at Craftool, as a partner in RBS, for Ray Hackbarth, and even under his own name (Barnes) in the forties through the sixties. He finished out his years making tools under the Hackbarth label after he bought the rights when Ray Hackbarth died. The best work he ever did was leaving behind a worthy successsor.

Bruce, Nope, it wasn't me that won that auction since these are the only Hackbarths I've picked up for a while. That last auction I posted up above was sure kind of a miscellaneous collection. I went for it because of the large McMillen stamp to the far right. The rest were an assortment of a few very early Craftools, some later unlettered Craftools, a couple of the metal stamping Craftools (the brasssy looking ones), the small pinker, and some junk Here is a picture of the McMillen after clean up with another real "oldie".......a F.K. Russell fleur-de-lis that I won (stole) in another auction

LOL It is on the list of things to do.........a list that seems to get longer every day. And a list that seems to have a great many things of more importance since the wallet is still funtioning more or less. For example, I just finished installing a quick change gear box on my small Logan metal lathe and the next project is rebuilding the pump for my high pressure power washer. Leatherwork usually is something to do inside... when it's zero outside.

Maybe you could post some pics of that 16 or 17 SPI tack you are talking about, because when I looked at pics I Googled of english tack , I didn't find any examples of anything near than fine of stitching. The thing is that anytime you are punching a bunch of holes in leather, you are essentially weakening it, and it will tear easier than solid leather.....just as a piece of perforated paper will tear easier than non-perforated paper. And the more holes you have. the weaker it will be. And the bigger the holes are, the weaker it will be. So, there is a point for any leather article where the finer the stitching is, the weaker the product will be. Of course, that is of little concern with dress belts, checkbooks, wallets, etc., but when it comes to horse tack like saddles, bridles, harnesses, etc., it becomes very important. You weren't talking about tack for toy horses were you?