skyout

I found this tonight, hope it helps: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=28024

"The mighty turkshead knot" group on Facebook (in the files section) has some excellent notes from Sidney Woods on gauchos as well as a pdf file of Tom Hall (Introduction to Turks Heads).

Could you braid the flat part first and drop/hide strings for the round braid?

OK, I had to use a ping pong ball as it was the only thing I had close to the right size and it was a little large, so I added a 3p x 8b. This is not finished and only tightened up one time around. I wish I'd gotten it centered on the ball better. I think the ping pong ball will collapse if I try reorienting the knot now. The bottom pic shows the pole to show you the Type 2 acts the same way as the Type 1 as it's being tightened up. 28 part x 32 bight, 4 Pass, Type 2 Pineapple Knot with a 9p x8b Turks Head Primary knot

If you cut the knot in half, each line is one part. Here's one I drew up a long time ago and never tied yet. I numbered all the parts to give you an idea of how they're counted. This interweave is shown in 3 passes but could easily be tied in one pass like the photo, then you'd have to rename the knot. I saw this knot here, another great site: http://www.deadringer.com.au/

Good luck, I think you'll do great!

Tie the first pass the same way as before, then you need to change your second pass. Start it the same but keep going past the first brown pass. Your third and forth pass will be the same. There is a tutorial but it's for a smaller 7p x6b Primary knot, which will only give you 4 (white color) zig zags and not the 6 white zig zags. You only need it for the second (brown) pass because only the brown 2nd strand goes outside the Primary knot's right hand side boundary. Your 2nd and 3rd white passes will be nested inside the left boundary of the brown 2nd pass and inside the right boundary of the 1st brown pass. It should help, just follow with extra O U's until the end. I think you can figure this out. The knot you tied, think about it, if you took away the 1st brown pass, just pull it out, now you have a brown, a white and a 2nd white pass. It's a 21p x 24b, 3 pass, Type 3 knot where each pass goes outside the right hand boundary of the knot under it.. So on the new knot, tie the 2nd strand the same way you did on these. The only difference is it will be a 9p x 8b instead of the 7p x8b. I hope this makes sense. Tut for the second string/pass/strand: http://pineappleknot...g-90281932.html

To get to the 32p x32b, 4 Pass, Type 2 Pineapple Knot, I would need to add one more 7p x8b ( gold) pass, the top 7p x8b in the chart on post# 17 In the 4 pass knot you tied, all your interweaves, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th passes, are nested inside the left and right boundaries of the first pass 9p x 8b Primary knot. Mine has the 2nd pass inside the left hand boundary of the Primary 1st pass but goes outside the Primary 1st pass's right hand boundary. This is how you get the 2 brown zig zags, or /\/\/\, for the symmetrical look you wanted that your knot doesn't have (only one brown zig zags, or /\/\/\, at the top of the knot). The chart in post# 17 shows the Primary 9p x 8b on the bottom. The 9p x 8b just above it shows it's right side going past, or outside, the lower ones right hand boundary. It's really hard for me to try to explain, but I hope it helps some. The bights on the ends should close up the same on a Type 2 as they do on a Type 1 PK, There's no difference at the ends.

Here's the one I was working on straight off the dowel w/o any dressing/tightening. I pulled the 4th pass out (not seen in pic) because it got too tight. Mine is black and gold for my daughters school, University of Central Florida, where she's graduating in April w/honor's. Whoo Hoo. Anyway, this is a 25 part x 24 bight, 3 Pass, Type 2 Pineapple Knot with a 9p x8b Turks Head Primary knot. This means there are two (black) 9p x 8b THs and one (gold) 7p x 8b TH.

The late Dan Alaska helped me a lot but he used a different way of naming knots than Tom Hall. I like Hall's way better because you know exactly what Turks Head knots go into the Pineapple knot. Dan has run lists for what he calls a Type 3, 4 Pass, but it is really a Type 4 according to Hall. It has a 7part x 6bight Primary (base) knot. You may be able to figure out how the Type 2 for a 9p x 8b is tied by following it. You just have to follow the same pattern one more time in the center for the larger knot. The top and bottom will be the same with 2 extra bights for the larger knot. This is the run list for the 2nd string using the 7p x6b TH: http://pineappleknotstutorials.over-blog.org/article-type-3-4-pass-pineapple-knot-2nd-string-90281932.html We lost a lot of tuts when he passed, but someone saved a lot of them and you can see them here: http://pineappleknotstutorials.over-blog.org/articles-blog.html I love the larger Type PKs. The more bights you have the larger the "pucker" effect is at the poles of knot. Any knot with a bight count larger than 4 will have a hole at the ends, the more bights, the larger the hole. Here are some beautiful larger Type PK's by Barry Brown. He helped me understand PKs more than anyone else. Unfortunately, a lot of Barry's diagrams on The Pineapple Knot Forum (http://pineapple.myfunforum.org/index.php) disappeared when Dan passed away. Check out Barry's awesome work here: http://ropeandcanvas.blogspot.com/p/miscellaneous.html

I hope it helps. Don't hesitate if you have any questions, I'll try to help as many others here will too. Tom Hall's Introduction to Turk's Head Knots is one of the best books for understanding Pineapple Knots. jmo It's free in pdf format on Facebook in "The mighty turkshead knot" group in the files section. I was actually trying to tie the 32p x32b, 4 Pass, Type 2 Pineapple Knot but my mandrel was too small so the 4th interweave was getting way too tight. I'll have to take it apart and try again later.

To me it looks like this: The double line in this drawing is a 9p x 8b TH. The single blue line is a 7p x 8b TH. Notice there are 4 red dots on the 9p x 8b drawing that match the 4 red dots on your 1st brown pass in your pic. The green dots on the 7p x 8b drawing match the green dots on your 2nd brown pass in your pic. The 3rd and 4th white passes would also be the same as having green dots. This would mean you have one (the 1st brown pass) 9part x 8bight TH and three (the 2nd brown pass plus the 3rd and 4th white passes) 7part x 8bight TH's. If you add all the parts together it equals 30 parts. Do the same w/the bights and you get 32 bights. This would make it (following Tom Halls' way of naming PK's) a 30 part x 32 bight, 4 pass, Type 1 Pineapple Knot w/a 9 part x 8 bight base knot. Great job on it by the way!

If you tie a 32p x32b, 4 Pass, Type 2 Pineapple Knot instead of a 30p x 32b, 4 Pass, Type 1 Pineapple Knot, I think it will be what you're looking for. Your 1st and 2nd brown leads will both consist of a 9 part x 8 bight, then follow with the 3rd and 4th white passes of 7 part x 8 bight.

16p X 16b 2 pass Type 1 PK that was doubled, I think???

I guess you call it an exception if the parts and bights are the same. A base 7p x 6b has a 5p x 6b interweave for a total 12p x 12b and it will work. Same w/the 9p x 8b base TH.

If you are on Facebook, join "The mighty turksheah knot" group. There, in the files selection, you will find "Introduction to Turks Head Knots" by Tom Hall. Hall's Intro is really great. There are other great resources from Ron Edwards and Sidney Wood to see, as well as a bunch of tutorials.

You have the parts and bights mixed up on your interweave. Base knot of 5parts x 4bights has a 3part x 4bight interweave. This makes it an 8part x 8bight. It can be tied.

Hi Tracy, When deciding on the base knot's geometry,you must also take into account the Type of PK you intend to tie. If Type 1, where the interweaves are entirely held within the bight boundary of base knot, the Interweaves will have 2 FEWER parts than the base knot so you need to ensure that the interweave can be tied. To test, ensure that the number of Parts and Bights have a greatest common denominator (GCD) of ONE. If the GCD is greater than ONE, then you either need to tie a Type 2 Pineapple Knot OR change the base knot geometry. If you're tying a TYPE 1 Pineapple Knot, your 7p x 4b base TH knot will have a 5p x 4b TH interweave for a total of 12p x 8b Type 1 PK which won't work because you can divide by 2 and/or 4 (GCD higher than 1). Another one that won't work is if the outside turk's head knot is an 11x6 turk's head the inside turk's head will be a 9x6 turk's head....which can't be tyed! Here are some great tutorials: http://pineappleknotstutorials.over-blog.org/articles-blog.html Hope this helps.

I learned a lot from the late Dan Alaska's tuts. http://pineappleknot...icles-blog.html

Weird, I can't find it here either. KHWW.net had it but their're in a rebuild mode and I can't find it there either. You may have to resize it??? 16 part x 16 bright 2 pass Type 1 Pineapple Knot This is a grid that will fit on a toilet paper tube similar to many of the fine grids Pat Ducey made for us. This one is from a base 9px8b Turks Head with a 7px8b interweave, which gives 3 zigzags in the finished knot. I don't believe there is a tutorial for this one yet. It will print out to fit a toilet paper tube like Pat Ducey's fine grids. Print pattern, cut out close (this one just barely fits the TP tube from top to bottom), tape to TP tube, fill tube with newspaper, use finish nails or T pins at top and bottom apexes (red dots), and start the first line (doubled black & white) anywhere you like; I like starting at # 4 going up and left to # 8. The second line (blue) I start at # 2 going up and left to # 5. Solid lines pass over and broken lines go under. Thanks to Tim and John Allwine for the Grid Maker, this is such a cool tool.

Read it all but post# 12 hits on colors and has a link to a PK tutorial I made. http://leatherworker...wtopic=26575=

I did a quick search and found this. Hope it helps. http://leatherworker...aided +scabbard http://leatherworker...h&fromMainBar=1 Sorry, looks like you've already seen these.

Don Burrhus's Globe Knot Cookbook has some amazing ties that may work for you, too. http://www.knottool.com/gk_kit.html

That's really cool looking Entiendo. Over at KHWW Pat Ducey has some tutorials that close up the poles of a TH. He has posted these: Turks head - closed end grids 7x8 / 5x8 / 3x8, 3L x 6B Closed End TH and also a Turks head pear shaped 12x4 & 12x7. http://khww.net/viewpage.php?page_id=21 Hope it helps.