JohnD

Thanks Joe, I ordered a sample pack of all the colors they (the China stuff) offer and plan to do a side by side comparison. I don't make any horse tack, so that stretch shouldn't be an issue for me. Although its nothing like Tiger thread, which I really like using, I've been considering just going exclusively with Mainethread's waxed poly, as its pretty good quality, easy to get, lots of sizes and colors and also that its made in USA.

I used the free cast offs from a countertop place for a few years, until my brother in law bought out a closed machine shop and ended up with a bunch of granite surface plates that he let me grab a couple of. I built a work bench that the plate fits recessed into from some reclaimed 3x4 oak, so the whole thing cost me only some elbow grease.

JoeSnuffie, Do you have an idea of how this compares to Tiger thread? I'd be curious to know if its a less expensive but similar alternative. I use Tiger and Mainethread, depending on what I'm making.

I dont think anyone is trying to be mean and though the pics are pretty bad, as you said I can still see what youre doing. If you were looking for more critique or advice, maybe a post in the show off or critique threads would garner more attention. I'm no expert but I think youre on the right track. The thing that jumps out the biggest at me is it looks like the quality of leather youre using is not so good. The wrinkles and such in the leather look like the grain is separating from the hide, where it get all squishy in the middle. It looks to me like you know what you want to do, just take your time and be consistent in your layout of hole spacing and such. Dressing the lacing with a smooth faced hammer or mallet after usually neatens things up quite a bit. Im not sure if you wet molded the top or not, but I like to cause then I can smooth out any wrinkles and stuff to end up with a neater appearance. Youre right that its not that bad, I think sometimes people just dont reply to things, it has nothing to do with who posts it. Posting your work and using the collective knowledge on this site is a big help to getting better and I think it would be a mistake not to take advantage of it. My wife used to call me the thread killer because whenever I posted it would end up being the last of that thread, not everytime mind you, but often enough to make her laugh about it.

You could also dress it with light taps from a smooth faced hammer or mallet. I think, also, you only need to double up through the holes on the tight corners and curves. Looks good though.

I just reread my first post and just wanted to clarify, I meant to write that I never use WASHERS on the outside of the leather and have never had problems. Also, the 2/3 oz is only used for the sides, when wet molding is necessary. As David said, thicker leather is needed for any tooling that will be done. Although I don't go as thick as David, I generally use somewhere around 5-7 oz, depending on the shape that it needs to conform to. If there won't be any toolong on the seat, thinner leather will mold and conform bettter, which will make things look much better in the end.

Just to add, if you have a heavy duty staple gun that will go through the plastic, that should work fine. I have never used one for this but, once the leather dries, after molding it pretty much stays put.

When covering a plastic pan, depending on the thickness and age of the pan, it might be a good idea to put the washers on the backside if the pan, so the rivets wont crack the plastic. A dab of super glue will hold them in place, which you'll needto do before putting the foam on, so it might not work for your situation. I' ve rivetted plastic pans without them with no problems though. I never use rivets on the outside of the leather and have had no issues. When I do that style of seat I also cover the bottom with wool felt to hide the rivets and edges of the leather. 2/3 oz is what I use, but just be careful when tightening your lacing and, if wet forming, be careful how hard you pull, because the thinner veg tanned leather will tear at your lacing slots. If you're going to wet form and stretch the leather over the seat, be wary of how hard you pull, because the plastic pans will warp and twist. If its still intact, using the old covering as a pattern for cutting the new leather will help get a better fit and minimize some of the stretching needed, just be sure to consider to add any overlap you'll need to the size of the pattern. A factory dyed upholstery leather may be better, although, Ive never used it, it may be hard to wet form it. If you do have a problem with the lace picking up the dye, using short lengths of lace may help to keep it white. I usually do this any way to keep the lace from stretching thin during the lacing process. As for links for lacing, I have none. The only reference I use for lacing is this: http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/department/books-patterns/lacing-braiding/6022-00.aspx I only use a few of the stitches in it but its pretty easy to follow. Hope some of this info is useful.

Sorry, I don't have an answer for your question, I found this thread while searching for the same thing. It seems to me that the quality standards in the leather industry are all over the place. I've ordered two sides of the same grade, from the same place, on the same order even, only to receive two drastically different qualities of leather. It's time for me to reorder leather and I'm wondering if its worth it to spend the extra (hoping) on the higher grade or just take my chances and ask for the best they have of the lower grade.

Thanks for the replies. Although I'm gonna pass on the machines, I'll make some notes with the info you have given in case I decide to seriously pursue getting a machine. The only reason Iwas considering these was because they came up and I thought the price was good. I think they needed a little too much "TLC" as well as not being suited for what I would want them for. Thanks again for the great info.

I was hoping to get some input on some machines that have been offered to me. An Adler 48-7AU and a Singer 29-4. Both machines are removed from the tables (though the tables are included ) and the motors, pedals and linkage etc. are in boxes. The guy said they both worked and he only took them apart for storage and his son used the tables for work benches for a screen printing business. He is asking $200. a piece for them. I make mostly motorcycle seats, wallets and belts. I would be using the machines for leather no heavier than 2-3 layers of 2-4 oz veg tan. I am wondering if either of these machines would suit my purpose, I've done some searching but couldn' find very much info on the Adler, a little more on the Singer, but not much on the availability of parts as these machines will need some work to be reassembled and put back to working order. I would appreciate any info on either of these, Thanks for any info.

I think what he charges for his bags is irrelevant if people are paying it. I would be happy if someone would pay that much for a bag I made (I don't make bags though). I think he's wrong to tell people a finished edge is hiding an inferior product. He mentions it in that video, But goes into more detail on his website, That if a maker finishes the edges of the leather then they are doing it to hide something. I think an unburnished edge is just laziness.

The ones I have are craftool M881, M882, M884. From small to large. Hope that helps. The girl at the Tandy where I bought them called them stingray stamps or something like that, so I don't think they know them as pebbler or such.

I would usually only sharpen tip and polish the whole blade. I tried a search but couldn't find it, but somewhere on here is a lengthy thread(one of many, I'm sure), with a ton of info on awl blades and hand sewing. I forget who wrote it and I apologize for not being able to credit the author, but it was said that an effective awl shape would be a sharpened diamond shaped tip with an oval or oblong shaft. Both the tip and the shaft should be highly polished. Only the tip needs to cut the leather. Although I should add: I bought an awl blade from Bob Douglass a few years back and have only had to polish it every once in a while. Worth every penny. Hope this helps,

I picked up a set of the Tandy pebble backgrounders yesterday. Tried them on some scrap to make sure the three of them left a matching impression, but that's it so far. They seem comparable to all the others I've seen. With a wholesale account they're under $5.

Christian, from Xianleather.com, has done it. With spectacular result I might add. You can see it here. I believe he is also a member here. John

Skald, I know this is an older thread and I don't know if you worked it out yet or not, But.... If you use solid brass (or Stainless Steel) rivets, or, what I think would be the better solution, solid brass(or SS)screws, you wouldn't have the problem with the plating coming off later. The brass (or SS) and sliver would solder together without issue with silver solder and you could attach to the leather item easily with the screw or rivet. Just had to add my .02 John P.S. The eyelet could be done by soldering a silver ring to a brass or SS grommet. Although I'm not sure how a small, thin brass eyelet or grommet would fare with the heat required for silver solder.

Young gun, In addition to all the other advice, I would recommend you sign up for Paul Burnett's free lessons. http://paintingcow.com/content/index.php/publications/free_lesson_sign_up/ There is an amazing amount of very useful information in them. John

Thanks for the advice Randy. Will the skirting take dye if I wanted to? Will I be able to tool it ? I'll have to check that out. I've been working on some seats for the past couple of days and I like the quality of this leather. I like the look of the Grain compared to the HO, it dyes evenly and just looks really nice. I think it tools a little differently than the HO, Which I've gotten kind of used to. Lately, I've been casing my leather in the same manner that Paul Burnett refers to as Quick casing in his lessons and I think I may just need to make some adjustments for the W&C. It seemed a little "grabby" on the walking tools, and I had to strop my swivel knife a lot more frequently than I usually do with the HO. Also, the tooling didn't burnish the way that it does with the HO. This could all have to do with the casing ,which may just take some adjustment to get right. I only have one seat that needed to be carved, one is getting a basket weave and the others are just plain black, so I'll do some messing around on the scraps once I get these out. Thanks again for all the responses. John

Thanks for all the responses. I appreciate all the recommendations and shared experiences. I got the leather yesterday. I did have it split, but, as Glen told me "a couple of days", I didn't expect the long delay. The quality seems fine. The leather seems a bit white to me, like Tandy's, Which I'm not a fan of, but I expect it will take dye better than Tandy's. It does have some scratches and long dark marks from handling, but I guess that's to be expected. Pretty clean hides otherwise. Like I said, I like to think I'm a decent customer, if I like the way the leather works, I may give them another try. When I ordered the leather I had 4 seats to make and enough leather for definitely 2 maybe 3 (turned out to be 2), so I figured a week, week and a half, before I was desperate. With Weaver I had received my order, shipped it back and got a new one in that time frame, so I wasn't worried. In the mean time I have 2 more seat pans added to the mix and riding season rapidly approaching, I worried. I do prefer the color of The HO so I will definitely look into some of the places you guys recommended. Thanks again for the responses. John

I seem to have the worst luck with buying leather. When I first started out, I got all my leather from Tandy. I would drive the 2+ hrs to pick out what I wanted, after the few chances I gave them to send me some didn't work out. I knew there was better leather out there so I searched around and started ordering from Weaver, which, after a few chances, didn't work out either. I called down to Waterhouse to see about driving the 2++ hours to look at some of their leather, but they aren't that kind of place and, though they were willing to make some special arrangements for me to look at some leather they weren't open weekends so I would have to take time off from my regular job to do it.Plus 15MPG would really add to the cost of the leather. 3 weeks ago I ended up calling Wickett & Craig, spoke to Glen and ended up ordering a couple of sides. Once a week since then I call Glen and he assures me my order will be on its way to me ASAP. Yesterday (Mon 4/25)I spoke with him and asked if this was their normal business practice, to take 2 weeks to get leather out to a customer? no emails no charges to my account, I still don't even know the total cost of my order. Glen apologizes for the delay, assures me this is not how they do business and tells me he will overnight my order to me and I'll have it the next day, along with an email invoice with my total ....yesterday. Today (tues 4/26)I get an email from ups telling me to expect my delivery by Thursday 4/28. no invoice. no overnight delivery. Am I doing something wrong? I don't think I'm a bad customer. I try to be pleasant on the phone, I'm patient with my orders, I mean, I gave them a week between calls and accepted his answer each time. I don't get it. If anyone can recommend a good, reliable supplier for vegtan sides or point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it. I like to think I provide a quality product so I've been trying to order the best quality leather I can find. It just seems that unless you pick it out yourself, It's hard to get good leather. Well, I guess I'll find out Thursday if W&C is worth the wait. Sorry for the rant, John

Not To pile on, but I have not been happy with ordering leather from Weaver either. I ordered 3 HO sides and a double shoulder. I asked for the best they had. The salesperson explained what "tannery run" meant and said the pickers would send what they felt was right based on my intended use. I had to send the sides back. The shoulders were fine. They had great customer service, no problem exchanging, credited the shipping... The new hides were just as bad. I didn't have time to wait for the another exchange so I used what I could. the quality of the leather wasn't the issue and the customer service was great. The problem was the sides looked completely beat up in the handling. They were full of welts and dings and scratches that looked to be caused from handling around the warehouse. One of the sides from the first shipment had what we all agreed was a boot print on it. Anyway, I just ordered a few sides from Wickett & Craig this morning.

I use Montana pitch blend on most of my seats,It is waterproof and seals the leather with no shine at all. It is applied by rubbing it into the leather by hand or with a cloth and then dried with a blow dryer. Then buff it out, just to even the finish, but it will not shine. If I want some sheen to it I hit it with some neutral shoe polish. I think it needs to be redone fairly often if exposed the weather a lot, so I always recommend people pick up some kind of dressing to use regularly if they're worried about it. http://www.mtpitchblend.com/ I hope this helps. John

There's also some stuff here http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=20462 that may be useful.

I quit using it for the same reason. I think I dealt with it before by applying neutral shoe polish, rubbing it in thoroughly and buffing it out until I was happy with the finish. At least I think thats what I remember doing?? For future projects though, you might want to look into this: http://shop.treatleather.com/ . I use the Montana Pitch blend dressing. You apply it by rubbing it into the leather thoroughly, Then heat it with a blow dryer or heat gun (on low setting) and buff it out to even the finish. It dries to a waterproof finish with almost no gloss at all. It's pretty much all I use on my seats now. hope this helps, John