horsewreck

I saw this topic revived and would like to give a few scattered thoughts on the subject. We have some consignment stuff in our store, some wood work, candles, western art, and we also take saddles on consignment from regular customers. We charge from 20 to 40% commission and don't charge shelf space rental. On some our consignors, we are their main source of sales even though they do shows and have stuff in other stores. One couple we've have been selling for along time will bring in their stuff price tagged at their usual markup, (which is to cheap) my wife will reprice it and put it in stock. We have been charging this couple 20% because they have been with us a long time, but the long and the short of it is they net more on their products when we sell them than when they do. When a craftsman considers consigning as a sales method they need to take their time, find a place where their stuff "fits" and be willing to pay a fair price for someone marketing their product. Never ever pay rent on a space in a shop because the owners are in the space rental business not the sales business. Taking consignments allows shops like ours to have a well rounded stock to sell from without having our money tied up, and I would never consider charging a craftsman storage or floor space. A good set of consignors make us look better and improves our bottom line, while doing the same for the consignor. Plus they can stay busy making stuff and don't have to maintain a store front, which is a whole nother can of worms.... JEFF

Ditto to what Ross and Bob say. The only thing worse than this silly craze of trying to keep show saddles "in the pink" (light color) forever, is to dye them Black. Nothing ruins my day more than someone coming into the shop and wanting us to dye something BLACK. It has been our experience that if you want something black, build it out of black leather that came from the tanners black. Nothing will ruin a showmans day more than having their light colored pants stained by one of these saddle dye jobs. Good saddle leather looks better as it ages and this trend of trying to prevent it is pointless. I like the horse activities where a person riding a new saddle is looked on as a greenhorn.... Jeff

Great Job ! Jeff

We have made quite a few belts using a single ply of heavy skirting. When I true up the backline on a side of skirting (we do a lot of stirrup leathers) I often have a strip wide and long enough for a heavy strap belt. These belts are very well recieved by our customers and we often sell them to guys who saw a friend of his wearing one. These belts are great for construction workers and folks who carry guns and other heavy stuff. I would caution if you cut a belt strip from a leather that does not have a firm temper, you had better double and stitch it to avoid stretching. On the single ply skirting belts we most often use a roller buckle and loop not a heel bar buckle. As far as the bend at the buckle goes, we thin it a tad right in the area to be bent and wet it a little and it works fine. I have made some strap belts as heavy as 15oz. ... Jeff

Great old saddle thanks for sharing it with us.... Jeff

Jim, I came across this topic and your posts on cutting out a rolled cantle binder straight instead of curved or round which is the method I have a always used. I made a note of your comments and last week used the straight cut piece method you described and I have to tell you that is the single best tip I have ever got on saddle making. I cut it out from a piece of 7-8oz. thinned it on the ends and bottom to around 4oz, cased it up and tacked it down on top starting from the center. Buy the time I got down to the ears I could see it wanted to fold up under up the bottom almost on it's own. I could have only been happier if it had sewn itself. Just goes to show you you can teach a old dog new stuff. Thanks again.... Jeff

Try to lay your hands on a copy of Al Stolmans book Making Leather Cases Vol. 3.. You might find it at Tandy store, it has a pattern for bowling ball bag...... Jeff

Needs work, locks up when you click on photos, ..... Jeff

Chuck, That is a good looking saddle that cries out for heavy ranch work. You just can't beat a good old roughout rig, and you did a good job. I agree about the rope strap, but we all learn something on every one. The narrower Arizona tree is a good look.... Jeff

Ben, Thanks for the link to McMasters-Carr site, I was able to find the foam you have described. I think I want to start with something firmer than the 8 that JW said he tried. As usual the discussion shifted to cloud crepe, so now I want to take a look at that as well. I will have to get some of both to try. Thanks guys for a brisk discussion, this is what I like most about this site.... Jeff

Ben, I have been using a 1/4" vinyl/nitrile foam from Weaver Leather #R-310-1/4 in 42"x 56" it sells for $34.95 a sheet, and I am trying to compare it to the McMasters-Carr 36"x54" sheets you mentioned. My problem is I can't get that part number to come up, can you describe the product to me? The stuff I get from Weaver is white, firm, has a smooth finish, and I guess it is "closed cell" . I have fair luck with what I have been useing but I am always looking for better stuff and better methods. Thanks.... Jeff

First I would suggest you get a good book on saddle construction. The Al Stolhman books are good to get you started. As to some of your questions, that metal plate you found under the seat is the base on which the ground seat is built, often called a strainer, or slang pie pan. The crack you refer to in the cantle I can't comment on without seeing it. If you are going to reline the skirts they have to be removed from the tree to do so. The stuff you found under the seat, I would guess is foam that is falling apart. The saddle as you describe it is most likely a inexpensive factory made, so I would not put much money in it if I were you. Taking apart old saddles is a good learning tool, but so is reading a good book on saddle construction. You will find that there as many ways to build a saddle as there are people building them, and you are never done learning. Good Luck..... Jeff

Have been asked how to make a belt using trophy buckles as conchos, but with out altering the buckles. Any experience in this field? Also mounting trophy buckle on front of purse without altering the buckle? JEFF

Without a stamp or number it will be hard to tell who made your saddle. It appears to be a style of saddle that was common in the 1940's but yours looks to be in pretty good shape. During this period many people bought their new saddles from catalogs like Sears, and Wards with many of these saddles being produced by a lot of different companys. Your saddle looks to be from that period but without a makers mark we just can't tell its origin. The number on the rigging ring relates to the ring itself and not the saddle. I 'm sorry I could not be of more help. It is a great old saddle, take good care of it...... Jeff

I'm with Knut on this one, olive oil is great, and I have used alot of pure neatsfoot oil as well. I am not a big fan of some of the stuff marketed as Neatsfoot "compound" because it is often mostly mineral oil with very little neatsfoot in it. Some folks swear by vegetable cooking oil, corn, sunflower, peanut, and others as long as they are a liquid, not solid when cold like crisco. I new an old timer years ago that swore by unsalted butter and this fella rode an old kak that was several decades old and the leather was in good shape. If I were you I would avoid the use of baby oils in favor of some of the other low cost oils, besides oils aren't a very big part of the cost of doing leather work...... Jeff

What other forum allows users to start out talking about urine on leather and end up talking about relationships? ..... Jeff

Denise, The" we" around our shop means the same thing as the" we" around your shop. My wife of 36 years is the only other person in the shop besides "me". As you know few couples can live and work side by side day in day out and stay married. Kathy and I have ranched and or run this business as a team for all the years we have been married. She is also the best cowboy I have ever worked with. This past week "we" have built a rifle scabbard, two belts, a bible cover, healed one horse wreck saddle, and cleaned up a dog urine issue. Kathy also did our bookkeeping, deposits, took care of her 97 year old mother and still had time to do some of her folk art that she is known for in our area, plus she teaches art two days a week to our local kids. "We" stay busy. I'm sure Rod feels the same way about you as I feel about my other half of "we". By the way "I" forgot to mention in my last post that "we" soaped the urine area with Fiebing's white saddle soap, after we wash it with baking soda and before we put on the oil. Maybe if "I" had not written the post alone "we" would have gotten it right the first time. Denise, thanks for giving me a chance to brag on my best friend....... have a great day....... Jeff

As to my first question, we first washed it off good with water. Then we scrubbed it with a soft brush with a mixture of Baking Soda and warm water. Lastly we gave it a coat of light oil and topped it off with a coat of Rudy's by Bee Natural. Looks good with only minor staining remaining. As to my second question, that's was just a "joke"....... have a great day! Jeff

Rob, Try to locate some store near by you that sell production saddles. They get saddles in to stock and have those big boxes they most often just throw away, That's where we get our shipping boxes from for free...... Jeff

OK boys and girls, I thought we should talk about some of the more glamorous aspects of saddle shop life. A lady just brought me a real nice 1994 world congress trophy saddle, that has been on display in a secluded corner of their den for all its years. The problem is for sometime a small family dog was relieving himself on the lower fender at the stirrup bend on the side next to the wall where it sat (fire the maid). This brings me to my two questions. 1: What would you do to clean it up, and get the smell out? 2: How can I get my wife to do this job? Any help would be appreciated especially on my second question....... Jeff

Knut, As far as I know there are no saddlemakers working in bison leather. Most of the bison leather seems to be done in lighter weights in the 4oz. range. Perhaps the lack of any larger scale tannery turning out bison skirting is one of the reasons no one is trying to build with it. I would think due to the difference in body build between a modern steer and a buffalo, could make for some interesting saddle layout issues. I also have heard the leather turned out at small less refined tanning operations is less stable and can exibit signs of decompositions due to incomplete tanning (it stinks). Long answer short, I just can't find an example of bison being used in western saddlery. Always good to read your posts........... Jeff

Tom; As a fellow who has been brought more than one box of saddle to be put back together I would like to warn you of some of the pitfalls. First if you are taking an old saddle apart to repair to learn from I think that is great, I as most saddlers enjoy looking at how others put their saddles together. However if there is an expectation on the part of the saddle owner that you will be able to tear apart their saddle, fix and return it at little cost you might have a problem. Tree repair can be expensive several hundred dollars in some cases, and that's not counting the tear down and re-assembling of the saddle. This is a good time to remind you that the first real step in any tree work is to ask yourself, if repairing or replacing this tree is the best most cost effective route for your customer? Often I will be brought a cheap low end saddle with a broken tree and we have to tell the owner that it is a good time for them consider getting a different saddle. That said, if the owner wants you to go ahead with the work go slow and remember take apart don't rip apart. I was once brought a box of saddle parts including a seat that had been cut off the cantle binder rather that pulling the stitches, along with the replacement tree, and the owner said to me "I figure it won't be to high cause I took it apart and got the new tree, you just got to put it together". He was not happy when I told him it would have cost less if he would have just brought in the saddle. Don't be that guy! If they decide not to fix the saddle maybe they will give it to you to play with and learn from. By the way Rod and Denise have put together what I think is the best resource on saddle tree construction in the business, you can learn alot there, study that site. Good Luck. I hope this was of some help.......... Jeff

Just a thought, when I am trying to make a project for the first time I like to make small moc-ups of any part I think will be tough to do so I don't screw up a bunch of leather cutting out the whole project and then sticking it in the stitcher and praying for a good outcome. Try going to your scrap bin and build a few corners as you would like them to be, then take what you have learned to the BIG leather and sew it up. You can try different radius corners and different leathers until you get it right on small scraps of leather and you will always end up with a result you can be proud of. I hope this is of some help to you........ Jeff

Klint; You are in Texas, just go to your local bank and get a DBA (doing buisness as) form, fill it out and file it as directed on the form. Then apply wifh the Texas State Comptroller's office (1-800-252-5555) for a sales tax permit. Their is no cost to you and that makes you a business in the state of texas. When you make a sale to a non ag use customer you simply include sales tax on his bill, then you are required to file and foward that sales tax monthly, quarterly, or in the case of a low volume shop annualy. It is easy as pie. I hope this is of some help to you....... Jeff

I wish the folks in my country would just oil period. I see a lot more saddles that have been dry most of their lives, than I see saddles that have been over oiled. I do from time to time get in saddles that look as though they have been dipped in a oil vat, but the vast majority of saddles come in pretty thirsty. As far as putting a shine on a saddle we use a lot of RUDY'S by Bee Natural, it is a conditioner that goes on after a saddle has been soaped and oiled as needed, but it does not seal the leather like some of of the lac and koat products do...... Jeff