greg gomersall

Was just wondering who all was planning on going to Jimmy's on June 5th for Dennis Lane's demonstration of his card sizing system? Greg

Once again thanks Tosch. I will be out of the shop for the rest of the week but will get everything David needs to build a tree for me next week. Maybe Joanna can find the thread on this from last year. I offered to work with David to make this possible and I also said I would ride the rig for a year. If this would not give me time to come to a fair and honest conclusion of my thoughts of this type of seat and placement than I don't know what would. David the ball is in your court. Greg

David how much do you want for a tree? As I previously mentioned the first time this came up I am sure we could work something out if you were willing to discuss it with me. Greg p.s. thanks Tosch

Alan I am not sure who's tree Steve was using 10 years ago but I believe Rick Reed is who he uses now. There are lots of good tree makers building trees that will allow the maker to put in the kind of seat that will allow the rider to work with his horse more easily. A few are as you mentioned Warren Wright, Rick Reed, Rod Nikkel, Ben Swanke, Severe's, Glenn Christman, Bill Bean, Jay Mawson, Dennis Lane, J. Watt. and the list goes on and on(I apoligize to those not mentioned). It is still up to the maker to do the seat correctly but having the top side of the tree properly shaped before you start helps. We have access to more quality tree makers now than we have had at anytime in history. Being able to use the gear yourself helps one understand the fit function and form aspect of making the gear a little easier in my opinion. Greg

I generally saddle my colt early every morning and go ride thru my cows before I go to the shop for the day. this morning I decided to mark the spot in my saddle while sitting in it that i felt was center underneath me. When I got of I tied a knot in the mane as a reference point and measured back going thru the handhole to the mark i had made on the seat. I then pulled the saddle and measured back the same distance on the horses back and placed a piece of tape. This colt is narrow so I use an old hamley I own on it. I then caught the big gelding, saddled him with a saddle I made for myself and went thru the same process. I took photos of these points on the horses marked with tape( unfortunately on 35mm film so the pictures will be posted after I get the film developed). In both cases I was sitting towards the center of what David reffered to as position B, no wheres near what he says is where most saddles put you position C. I also know most of the better makers are putting thier low spots of thier seats in the same areas as me so thats why I get my hair up when I get challenged by someone with a different viewpoint who can't back up what they are saying without sending me on a wild goose chase for a little info here and a little there with the sum total of it all still not amounting to anything. David you might be light years ahead of the rest of us or you could be the one off track. Please show us something we can base this info on. I have talked to one of your former employers and they said you were a good carver and a very aimable person, spoke well of you, I'm not trying to fight with you I would like to understand you. We are all allowed our own opinion's on things, but when you tell us we are all wrong you need to back it up concisely in simple short terms. Respectfully Greg Gomersall

Fred Smith at Old Wives Sask. makes some of the nicest metal bound stirrups on the market. His number will be listed under the directory listings for Moose Jaw. They are not cheap but quality never is. These are the stirrups I use on my rigs.There are lots of people covering stirrups but very few can do as smooth a job as Fred. Greg

When you sit ON a saddle you concentrate the bulk of your weight towards the back of the saddle, the rear bar tips are not far from the lumbar vertabrae & kidneys. Wrong spot for weight. When you sit IN a saddle you are distributing your weight between the stirrups and the seat. This is the only way you can balance with any stability. Besides the fact that if your horse farts and jumps sideways you have a better chance of not falling off. Reference was made to the old bronc twisters being up over the withers of thier horses to ride them. If you study the drawings of Will James, Jo Mora & Ernie Morris (very accurate drawings) you will notice as the bronc is going up they are out over the front of the horse but as the bronc starts to come down the riders are not over the front anymore. I wonder why? My experiance has been if I'm leaning ahead when them front feet hit the ground I'm next! Alan you also stated the center-fire rigs of old sat farther forward on the horses allowing the rider to be over his horses front end more. This is not so, the center-fire rigs sat on the same spot ( just behind the scapula) as today's saddles do. On these old center-fire kahk's they used cinches that were 6 to 8 inches wide to keep them in place. A properly fitting saddle tree will go to where it wants to be on a horse's back, rigging placement will either keep it in this position or hinder it's getting there. David I am not trying to pick a fight with you but I dang sure disagree with some of the things you are saying. My offer to try one of your trees myself is still open if you would be willing. Heck it could change my outlook on the subject. A few years ago Eclectic Horseman magazine published a series of 3 articles by Chuck Stormes on Trees, Rigging and Groundseats. I encourage all aspiring saddlemakers and horseman to read these articles. Maybe someone more computer savy than myself could post a link Greg

To add to JRedding's comments the stirrup leathers are hung just ahead of the low spot of the seat and they transfer a lot of the weight of the rider farther forward than what it appears in David's photo c bareback. If you ride on your ass with no weight on your stirrups your dead weight and will cripple you horse. Even when your heels are inline with your shoulders your stirrup leathers are still hung ahead of your pelvis so in no way is photo c an accurate representation of how one sits a horse. Greg

I cured that problem for the most part by not offering a repair service. If I didn't make I don't fix it. Greg

Welcome Brian. Greg

I was taught a shovel cantle should be 9 3/4" wide at the points with the maximum width at the widest part of 11". Maximum 3/4" dish and can be either round topped or pointed. This type of cantle looks better stood up in the 40 degree or even 42 degree position rather than 37.5 or less. Due to the flatness of this type of board the Taylor cuts should be a given. Greg

The post machine would be fine for chaps, belts and strap goods but as far as saddle construction or repair no way. The foot lift, sizes of needles available and the inability to sew with thread heavier than 207 will be your down side. You are at the stage that most people who want to do saddle repair or learn how to build saddles get stuck at. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CHEAP STITCHER THAT IS CAPABLE OF DOING THIS KIND OF WORK. The lowest level type of machine in this class is the Boss which will probably run you a grand used, they are a piece of junk in my opinion. The next option is an American straight needle or a champion narrow throat, these are quite comman for 750 or less but if you are not mechanicly inclined good luck. I guess what I am trying to say is buy a bigger machine than you think you need and remember you will pass it on to your kids. A quality stitcher will pay for itself over and over, a cheap stitcher will probably never pay for itself. Greg

Alan you will want to bend the rods that the bottom of the leathers go around back on a 45 deg. angle so that you get a little more turn on your fender. When I first made mine it was straight like yours but after the first set of fenders it was modified. Otherwise loks good and even more modern than the one steve showed us . Greg

Gordon one thing to keep in mind with the center of the horn theory is that if you have two identical trees from the same maker with the only difference being one has a wood post horn and the other a metal horn your full double position you mentioned for reference will be in two different spots. This is why I believe you get a more accurate point of reference working off of the bottom side. This is just my opinion and heck I have been wrong before. Greg

Duke if you are putting the stirrups in a set of taps why would you cover the stirrup as well? Why not just wrap the treads and use a rollar chafe? When I cover stirrups I use 9/10 oz on the outside and 7/8 oz on the liners. Greg

Properly cleaning and oiling a saddle is generaly a dirty labour intensive job, not hard to do but time consuming to do right. If someone brings me a saddle to be cleaned I approach it with the attitude that if they are Too Lazy to do it themselves then I am gonna be well paid to do it for them so I multiply my shop rate times 1.5. Most people's jaw hit the floor and decide to buy the products they need and do it themselves. A few choose to have us do it,for these my wife does (she gets well paid for it and does an excellant job). To go thru a full carve with a toothbrush is alot of work but the smile on the customers face when they see thier saddle and the extra spending money in my wife's pocket makes all happy. Greg

They already make what you are discribing they call it a plough gauge and I use one for cutting stirrup leathers. Works way nicer than a draw gauge on wide straps but you better have a couple shots of everclear before you price one out. Greg

We discussed seat rigs some back before Katrina or whatever the crash was named. Otto Earnst of Sheridan Wy. patented the seat rigged saddle back in the 20's or early 30's. I posted a page from an old Earnst catalog showing the info a day or so before the crash so that is gone forever but once things get back to normal round here I will re-post it. Greg

Thanks for the explaination Steve. While I already knew the ansewer most readers on here were probably wondering as there are not many colonies in the US. Greg

What's a Hutterite?

Steve what dies I have had made came from Big Sky. There was one I was not happy with as it was quite different than the pattern supplied but they took care of that no problem. When your getting prices get your prices with and without buckle slot and hole inserts etc. you will be suprised at the cost of these extras. Greg

If memory serves me correct Tom and Walt did the first one in 1939 and then made a few changes in 1940. greg

Dorrance's wade was just like what Andy is trying to get accross. Walt Youngman was the tree maker at Hamley's who helped Dorrance develop the tree. From there some people have stayed true to design while others has "bastardized" it. Greg

Boise Foundry in Melba, Idaho or Bork Saddlery Hardware in Pendleton Oregon are both foundries that cast horns. Greg