Go2Tex

I looked at that certification and it's just a bit too spendy for me right now. I'd like to do it, though eventually.

Will certainly do that, Sir. Guess I better get a name tag on.........

Well Howdy Paul! I notice you're in my area code. I'm out here in the sand hills of Floresville, about 27 miles from the edge of civilization (San Antone). How you liking the Hill Country?

Thanks Don. I really admire your work. Hope to run into you at the show.

Here's my business plan: Build 'em, sell 'em, buy more stuff......

OH yeah! Now, that's a saddle worth winning. First of all, I think I just wasted my $10 entry fee for the Wichita Falls show..... but I digress... Seriously, though, do you carve the cantle binding on or off the tree? And, did you use a filler? It looks kinda thin. I like that look and I've been trying to get mine thinner without sacrificing firmness. Nothing worse than a floppy cheyenne roll. Now, about that knife cut design on the seat. Do you sketch your design first on each side, trace it off or what? It's real nice and symmetrical. And, do you mind if I steal your idea for my next rough-out? And finally, Don, on your trophy saddles, I notice this one has the horn unwrapped. Do you give the guy a choice of wrap or what?

Very fancy indeed. And thanks for the inspiration for a way to use up some of my scrap leather and 1/8th" lace. Now, I wonder though who is gonna buy these? I guess the Christmas gift market...... Not a real practical spur strap since the lace will not hold up well on a stirrup. But they look really nice. Kinda retro. Have you tried a buck stitch with rawhide? Now that would hold up.

Well, I'm pre-registered to enter a saddle but mainly just going to pick up some stuff. Looking for a tree or 2. I ended up down here with only a couple trees and nothing on order. Now I'm looking at 3-4 months wait. Need some tools. Yeah, better set a limit. This could get expensive......... Yeah, I'll be the guy walking around eating out of an Alpo dog food can.

Anybody going, entering? This is my first time at this show, so........ gimme some tips. I have reservations at the Econo Lodge on 5th St. Anybody ever stayed there? It's close to the show, but is this place a dive? I don't know, I'm askin'. Good places to eat? Places to avoid? People to avoid? I don't know, I'm askin'.

Very nice, clean work. The picture was so big, though, it took forever to download it. I'm on dial-up down here in the sand hills of south Texas and can't get DSL!!!

Darc, you must buy that brown dye by the case.... But seriously, how do you get those large areas, like the seat, so even? Also, once again for us dummies who can't remember, what size and brand/type of thread and spacing are you using on that horn and cantle? You should be giving classes on hand stitching........

That's the one I use a lot and it seems to work just fine right out of the box. You might have gotten a bad one. Those cutters are replaceable, of course and cheap. Dry leather or cased, it should work.

To answer your questions: 1. yes, there are rules. Since you are merely duplicating originals, you needn't worry about the size, etc. But make sure they are securely attached to the stirrup leathers and are made from good firm leather. There are several different methods of fender and leather construction, some better than others. The strongest method is the full stirrup leather riveted to the fender at the top and at the buckle end. It's also the most bulky and heavy, so some makers vary the design to lighten the load and reduce bulk. Either way, use the best leather of the side of skirting, if you are also replacing and cutting your own stirrup leathers. Take them off the top of the side with the the holes end of the leathers pointing at the butt of the hide. Fenders should likewise be taken off the firm part of the side, preferably lengthwise, particularly if the method of construction is anything other than full leathers, i.e., fenders spliced into the leathers as is commonly done on trail saddles. 2. Don't need to line or cover them if the originals were not. 3. The weight of the fenders is generally 13-15 oz. on working saddles, but can be less depending on the use. Light weight leather looks flimsy after a while but considering the actual purpose of the part, to keep the sweat off your pants, (hence the original name, "sweat leathers"), light weight leather would suffice for a lightly used saddle where weight is an issue. 4. Finish should match the original fenders, if possible, but as Mike suggested, the color ain't easy with an older saddle. The problem is, of course, the leather changes with time and exposure to light. If you match the old leather now, it will darken up with time and not match the old leather unless we're talking about a really dark old saddle. Best policy is to explain this to your customer up front and then allow some break-in time for the new leather to match the old. First determine if the original leather was natural or dyed. If natural, you could use an oil darkening product that you add to the neatsfoot oil. The dyed leather will need to be replicated or, if a drum dyed leather, try to buy some of the same leather or try to match dye it. Good luck with that. One further note, when replacing the fenders, also make sure the stirrup leathers are in good condition. Also, check the condition of the latigo tie straps, billets and rigging attachments. If the fenders need replacing, chances are the rest of the parts will too. It's a safety issue.

A big Texas howdy from down here in hot, muggy, buggy and sandy South Texas where the mosquitos are the size of small birds and nothin' happens faster than a crawl.

Yep, been there done that with the black dye ordeal. The biggest problem is the rubbing off. I found I just have to put an acrylic finish on it. I don't like the plastic feel but it seals it.

Thanks Greg. That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. But it does confirm my worst fears. My costs just took another huge jump..... which means my hourly wage is now somewhere between "almost nothing" and "why and I doing this?" :

Sounds like a waste of good deer skin to me. There are far better applications for that stuff. Just to kick the subject around a bit and think out loud here......... Holster lining, in my humble opinion, should be top grain, with few exceptions. Suede, or anything rough, is going to collect dust and lint and moisture whcih is bad for metal. If the person is concerned about wearing off the blueing of a gun they plan on carrying all the time, as in a duty weapon or concealed carry for personal protection, it's just going to happen even more. Eh, gee, that's why they came up with stainless and chrome, ain't it? Deer skin, if tanned the way I've normally seen it, as with gloves and buckskin clothes, is soft and a bit spongy. It would probably conform well to the gun and cushion it but it wouldn't wear as well as a veg tan. So, if the sights caught on it, there goes your nice lining. Now, if a person is just thinking the deer skin looks nice or is soft like a glove, well, sure, I guess so. I'd charge appropriately for the lining and give 'em what they want. Lining is a pain anyhow.

Yeah, kinda like the Steele Saddles for gaited horses.

Thanks Barra, your 2 bobs makes a lot of cents, er, sense. I hadn't really given any of this much thought until recently but I suppose it's a necessary evil in a world controlled by these "certain money grabbing profession" bottom dwelling scavengers. Well, looks like I'm gonna have to be raising my prices to pay for all the insurance and legal fees, incorporation, homesteading, quick deeding to my dead horse or whatever it takes to protect my ass-ets. Because of the "deep pockets" nature of litigation, it's become a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. If you have insurance you become a target, but if you don't you could get sued anyway and end up losing your house and first born. Maybe I'll just go into the key fob business. Not much liability there.

UH-oh... I hope this topic doesn't get hyjacked by the animal rights activists... probably end up arguing the merits of horse slaughter..... a topic only slightly less volatile than saddle fit.

Some trail saddles use felt also. The Tucker brand does.

Well no, they said my shop, once I get it built, would not be covered because it is a business. They didn't suggest a rider, so I rather suspect they'll want to do the whole thing on a commercial policy. There must be a couple million saddles sold every year and I can't help but believe that only a tiny fraction of them are sold with any kind of waiver or release drawn up by some insurance lawyer and signed by the purchaser. The hang tag might have some moronic warnings and legal mumbo jumbo on the back of it but, ... geezus....Can you just picture this scenario in your local tack store? "Er, excuse me, Mr. Cowboy, before I sell you this fine roping saddle, I have to get your John Henry on this insurance form. It says in case you fall off your horse, you can't sue us." .... "Oh, and by the way, are you aware that throwing a rope around a big, dumb animal like a cow, while riding another big dumb animal like a horse, is inherently dangerous?" It may be real sound legal advice, I don't doubt that. It's just that there seems to be a very large gap between the real world and the world of insurance underwriters in this case. Could it be that most saddlemakers just don't bother with it?

Makes it nice and handy to just pull off a few feet from the ol' stitcher for that bit of hand stitching and it matches the rest of the project, too.

Fortunately, I mentioned my intentions when I was getting quotes for my homeowners insurance and they wrote the policy, so that's not going to be an issue. But, the saddle thing.......geeze, I can't figure that one. You'd think the risk would not be that much. Anyone ever heard of a saddlemaker being sued for product liability? I suppose it could conceivably happen but it seems to me that the assumption of risk by the rider is huge. You hop on a horse and you're assuming a big risk from the get-go. If there was a big risk of product liability surrounding horse gear, it would all cost so much nobody could afford it. Any lawyers in the crowd?

Uh oh, the gay mafia strikes again!