DoubleC

So would I Seriously I've just been doing conchos and Trail Riding ID tags up until now. And I'm 'blinging' some already made tack sets to sell so I can get some leather to do my own tack sets. I'll put on the IDs I made. One was for my partner which is how we met, and one is mine I've used at other places to advertise. I'll put on some conchos too, musta made a million of them but I was ahead or behind my time :-) Nobody wants leather conchos. Only sold the first set I ever made, but I recently put a set I made on a new tack set I bought online that I'm redyeing. And realized I had a MAJOR flaw in the design (which doesn't seem possible on something that small). I used mod podge in the gutters I made for the bling, then covered the tops with it too to help them stay glued on during use. I screwed the chicago screw in at the bit area in tight on one side, and while I was taking them off, noticed that one had a crease in it. Wasn't a crease, it was a crack. I guess since the mod podge dries so hard, which was why I used it, it also cracks under pressure. So I have a years worth of mistakes I could show you but I don't see it that way. It lead to me starting a business instead of haphazardly listing things here and there, and it also allowed me to become familiar with my tools. And now I can take the bling back off, clean it up and use it again. This is the set that cracked. I carved and tooled these, made the leaves with a pear shader then carved the edges of them. Used a tool to make the thorns, and put vintage black glass scarabs on as the blackberries. I'm just glad I learned now before I sent a set out on a tack set I made. I attached the drawing I found online I took the design from.

Way cool on being a horse owner!!!! Jerry I've been carving and tooling leather conchos up until recently. And someone said on here, I don't remember who, NEVER apologize for your work. If someone laughs ask them the last time they made their own tool pouch!!!!!!

Pretty cool for a noob. I read a thread here that said you should always wear or have an example of your work with you. Well I'm wanting to do tack primarily, so I'm thinking about making a a pouch for myself to carry some double tools I have, tooling, carving, painting I don't know yet, LOL. I don't wear belts, and don't know anything else I could wear, well except some concho hairbands I made :-) Anyway, you reminded me I need to add that to my list, and congrats on your project. Cheryl

You know, it's strange Rick, she thinks she's the one coming up with solutions and I'm being stubborn. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I offered to give the tack away decorated for testimonials, she didn't want that. I offered to finish it and her sell it on eBay under her ID because I don't want anything to do with the business Paypal (which we don't have set up yet) because I'll be honest, I'm NOT good with money. I sold on eBay for quite a while and bought more than I sold and barely got out alive with a 100% reputation. I was doing vintage things at the time, jewelry and smalls and I always found something too good to pass up knowing I could make money on it. I guess auctions are my personal form of gambling. she didn't want to do that. Then after she told me to send it all back and I went off about my time, the business and my paying shipping, plus it being up to me to find some working capitol, she wrote the next day a long ugly email and said all she wanted to hear from me right then was did I want her to send me the money to ship them. Thant she had every intention of selling the tack and putting it back into the business. The day before she said she was just going to throw it in the barn with their old saddles they use for training. I gave up reading minds a long time ago unfortunately. Yesterday I worked on the website changing it back the way she wanted, after I sent an apologetic email in return saying i didn't want her money. I have sent her posts from here and she's mad I'm discussing all this. I told her I didn't post about this issue, but rather what to coat the paint with so it didn't fall off after the tack was used a week. And that these were the posts I was getting. She threatened yesterday to just walk away and I told her I'd rather be friends with her than partners. I wouldn't even have to change the name, mine is Cheryl Crossan :-) I have someone here helping me learn excel, I've downloaded everything and read every tutorial I could find that was relevant, found a leather supplier and signed up for a wholesale account, down the website twice, researched everything from hardware to what seems to be selling at eBay, plus been working on this tack. She found a wholesale rhinestone business and ordered some to put on a pair of jeans. I ordered USMC and Resolene and some glass scarabs because on the black set I bought I'm putting my own conchos on the set and didn't have an extra scarab for the breast collar. Picture from photobucket attached along with the drawing online I took it from. She says I'm flitting and need to concentrate on finishing the tack. I think I'm trying to survive and get this business off the ground. And like I said Rick the truth is probably some where in the middle, I don't know. I just know I can't fight about it anymore and I'm almost out of apologies. I want her to walk away though I don't want to just leave her behind. I don't know, I just know you all have some really good advice. Thanks for writing Rick. Cheryl

OMG Jimbob it's absolutely lovely, Cheryl

I am so realizing that. I think I'd be better doing the business on my own a little at a time, and us remaining friends. Thanks for taking the time to write. Cheryl

I think I should take up professional ballet or something easier than trying to learn this craft, and art form. After reading an older post about lining headstalls, where the man was using skirting leather, I said to myself WHAT? So I went and checked all three of my bridles here (yes, I wanna own all of them in the world, LOL) and realized the backs WEREN'T rough out leather like I assumed. I am not talking about the other topic of the evil blue tack set but my personal bridles. Now I'm not sure if they were burnished on the back or actually lined. However they were done, they weren't sewn down the length of the reins yet they are smooth. But the headstall is sewn completely. I had intended to use 7-9 oz veg tanned leather for my headstalls. It seems to be the same thickness as everything I have. Would it be better to use a lighter weight and line with the same, say 4-5 oz and then line with the same weight on the back, or use use a heavier weight and line with something lighter, or take up ballet :-) Thanking you in advance for any help you can provide. Cheryl

You know Sylvia, I think we're both feeling extremely stupid and sensitive right now. And I'm sorry now that I even put all this drama and chaos up. Not that people haven't been supportive, they have. It's just this isn't why I joined the forum. I want to learn, I want to get better at what i do, I want to see other people's work, and for two days or so it's been a silly cheap piece of tack I've been talking about. You're right, it's not worth it, and how it got this far I can't seem to figure out. But I'll take my share of the blame for opening my mouth before my brain engaged, and consider that a lesson too. Thank you so much. cheryl

I wish it was that simple Sylvia. What makes me angry is it wasn't even that EXPENSIVE a mistake, around $120.00 for all the stuff, but my friend and partner isn't speaking to me currently. She works at home on a high pressure job, and things are crap for her right now, and when she sent me like the third email of the day that said, 'whatever floats your boat' I'm afraid I wasn't too understanding. I offered to finish it and find someone who could give us a GOOD testimonial from this area, someone respected in our little corner of the world, and she said she wasn't giving it away. I said, 'ok, I'll finish it and we can sell it with an honest description on eBay, just not under the company name.' Nope, wants me to send it all back, says she'll sell it this summer trail riding, etc. When I asked her if she still wanted me to paint the leather keepers white is when she sent that response. I got on AIM, which I should have done some deep breathing first, or taken a walk or something.....and said what didn't float my boat was her attitude. She said it wasn't a long term solution but had been intended to help me get the business started. I said uh, 'help me? Let's see, I buy all the unfun stuff like dyes, paint and tools, etc and have spent as much as you have. so now you're getting the tack back, plus my time, AND I'm paying to ship it? What part of that is helping me?' I so wish I could take it back now but it just came out. And now she won't talk to me, on AIM or the phone. I was just so frustrated because i was trying to find some solution to the problem and had told her, she got ripped off by what is considered a reputable company, and I was willing to eat the costs with her, we were in this together. So at this point Sylvia, I'm finishing the blue set, should only take a couple days even if I'm extremely slow. I'm sending it back. I left a message on her phone I'd be here when she was ready to talk, and I'm moving forward. Just because the work occupies my time AND mind and I'm not mad. Confused, weird, crazy, and frustrated, but not mad. I totally agree with you, SOMEONE will buy a royal blue set of painted tack, even from India, but can you understand why I don't want that to be the first product Double C sells?

Art, I honestly didn't know that. For some reason that makes me happy. I never imagined it would be POSSIBLE to eat elephant just because of the way they look. You really know your stuff and I'm glad you bothered to explain it to me. Cheryl.

Hi Art. The article I read recently must have been about the government run populations. And I know the government culls them too, or has in the past, with helicopters and just kills them and leaves everything. I've read and watched a lot of things about elephants and in their behavior they are so human like....only better somehow. It's not that I'm anti-social and don't like people Art. But the elephant herd is run by the oldest cow who knows where the food will be, and water during the year. When a bull calf gets to an age he becomes interested in his cousins, the lead cow makes him leave the herd which has kept the population stronger by preventing inbreeding. Over 100 years ago the African cow had tusks too, and was poached as well as the bulls. In less than 100 years, the African female calf started being born WITHOUT tusks. The African government tried to introduce elephants into a new area so they gather up teenagers and moved them there. Within two weeks they were running wild, knocking over trees and generally out of control. The put an older cow with them and the behavior stopped within 24 hours. They've caught elephants on video coming upon a Government culled group, and the group carried the tusks into the, woods, trees, jungle? and hid them. it's as if they know why they're being hunted and culled. I agree the solution they've come up with as far as turning the control over to tribes-people is a much better one. I also understand that to some culling them is no different than a zebra. Part of my problem Art is with the waste. They don't eat elephant meat, or I don't think the tribes-people do. And elephants are different than zebras. I don't think they've even found a way to measure an elephant's intelligence. I'm really not a PETA nut (not that I'm sure they're nuts) I just think the whole premise of Christine's book shows the problem between humans and animals. Not that it's Christine's fault, I'm expressing myself badly, it's just the disregard we have for life. It saddens me. Cheryl

Hi Christine. This thread was so pertinent to me that I couldn't believe it. I just went to a leather company recommended on here and after I filled out my info to buy wholesale, I went to the home page to start to check out leather, and saw the had an elephant hide, or 1/2 or shoulder or belly, I really don't know. I shut the site down as I tried not to vomit. 2011 was the worst year in a long time for poaching African elephants and rhinos. Seems there's a recently wealthy Asian market that wants nice things, and are willing to pay for the poaching of tusks and horns. Ivory for obvious reasons, it's beautiful, and the rhino horns because it's believed to have medicinal power (actually I think some cultures think it's an aphrodisiac) which has been proven by 12 gazillion studies it doesn't have any, no, not none, buy Viagra. I know I'm on a little rant here and will probably get BUSTED or at least accused of being one of those PETA fruitcakes, but I just had to jump in. And also because I am a 'recovering writer' LOL with a couple SS published, and I know what you're up against. Well I mean as far as research; I know nothing from fashion and the worst part is that most of the replies read like Greek to me and wouldn't ya know I took Latin? So I can't help you at all except give you some moral support and explain that however it's justified, leather comes from COWS and not animals whose flesh and bones rot away after being stripped of their skin. We drink cow milk, we eat cow meat, and we use their hides. Kinda like the way it used to be when the only people here were Native Americans. So if you get confused about what leather is, just let me know and I'll explain it again, LOL. Good luck on the new story. Cheryl

Bronc, that is beautiful. Cheryl

You know Pete, I think that's wise advice. I can honestly say that every minute I put into this makes me madder and madder. And I don't want to 'waste' what I added up as around 22.00 of the nicest vintage 'bling' I have on this set. As far as I'm concerned, we could finish it up with just some paint, and maybe some of my conchos (that's how I started in leather work) and give it away to some people for testimonials as to the work I did on it, not the tack itself. Because it would be fine for training tack, etc. or even trail riding tack when you want to look good without bringing out your best stuff, gonna rain, etc. I think the testimonials would be worth more than what we could ever sell this for. I just wanted so much to make this better for Lacey because she's my friend, not just my partner. I know what I want to do. I want to make my own tack using good leather, and good hardware, and good and hopefully with help here to become better tooling, designing and carving. Thanks for answering me Pete. I'm going to copy and paste this to Lace and see how she responds. Cheryl

I don't think I expressed myself well Catskin. My partner bought these inexpensively on sale because I was going to visit her and she wanted something there to basically seal the deal. She didn't know there were more then inexpensive, but also cheap. She bought them from a reputable dealer and online they looked nice. She even bought herself a set. When they got there, she took her set out to 'air' which still didn't tip her off, glanced at the other stuff, put them back in the bags and back in the box. When I got there, I took the first 'natural' set out, looked at it all over, and said, 'you didn't noticed this is uh, yellow?' She just looked at me funny. Then I said, 'this is a harder question but did you notice where they tried to hide the stamped India on the breast collar?' She grabbed it away from me, found the mark and I thought she was going to cry. Especially since we are all about buy American. No we are not buying cheap tack and jazzing it up. It was an unfortunate mistake where a 'reputable' dealer bought some cheap tack, and passed it on as an incredible Christmas sale and my partner bought it. And now I'm stuck with the unfortunate task of trying to make it look good enough someone won't be ashamed to use it. We are NOT going to list it as anything other than what it is, made in India. It's sturdy, and it's painting up nice, although it's taking 3 coats to cover. Already finished off leather is hard to work with. You have to understand that was in the infancy of our planning the business, and we're now in the toddler stages. I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to make my own tack. I have downloaded and read everything here that I could, read forums, and taken notes, and unfortunately spent more time here than working on the tack. All we want to do is make these sets nice enough that people with the facts will buy them and we can get our money back so I can buy my resellers license and leather. I'm putting more time and money into the set than what I should but even though we could eat what we paid for these, I just can't waste things. I've been on disability for a long time and it's become a habit. The 'jazz' I'm putting on it is vintage baby blue and white milk glass connector beads, and vintage Swarovski navettes. I paid quite a bit for these as conchos decorations when that's all I was doing, making my own leather conchos. I'm attaching a picture of the design I came up with. Nothing leaves my house until I have it as nice and everything's as perfect on it as I can make it. I'm using leather Eco-Flo paint from Tandy. So do you think Resolene will finish it off? As an aside, the black set is now selling for 3 times as much on eBay although I noticed he's staying away from black. I took one of my white sox last night and rubbed it a little and the black is still coming off. I think the seller is making these and selling them, and it is a very nice set he didn't finish well, got frustrated with, and just wanted to get his money back I imagine. The design is crisp, and the leather is very soft and supple. It's NOT from India and after I put some work into it, is going to be a beautiful set. I plan to just work on it at nights watching TV, rubbing, rubbing, and rubbing some more after I let the new coat of USMC black dry. From some of the threads I've read, the black coming off is a common problem so this will be a longer project until I get all the dye rubbed in well, rhinestones added, and a coat of Resolene on it, but it's going to be a beauty. The picture is dark because I turned my flash off. With the flash you couldn't see the milk glass and navettes. But it's the Royal Blue Eco-Flo, and I'm painting the leather keepers white, also Eco-Flo Thanks for taking time to write, Cheryl

Me too :-( Emailing partner about the comments now Chavez

ROFL, at this point anything could happen. The excitement of a baby business, how will it grow up? Cheryl

Hi again Scary. I'm sorry I was so flippant, didn't realize you need admin permission to get in the adult forum. So I've PM admin. Thanks, Cheryl

LOL, Scary, I'm old enough to be your uh, really old aunt! I will go and look and see what hammerhead has. Well that's assuming I can FIND it. For my first week here I thought this forum ended at the first brown line. That's for telling me about his stuff and taking the time to respond. Cheryl

DO WHAT? Oh my, is the leatherworker forum, I thought it was dabbling around. LOL. I think that is such a good idea Bill I want to get offline and start it. I honestly do. When we first came up with the name Double C Cowgirl Couture (Conn and Crossan) it took a friend of mine to send me a graphic of double horseshoes (doesn't know a rein from the horses tail, but always helping me) for me to do that 'slap upside your forehead DUH.' I use a horse shoe stamp on the back of everything now, overlapping them. I can't believe what a good idea this is and how it should have been right in front of my face, or at least my workbench. I will see if she minds if I do it that way and then it'll be on me see? How can her sketch not be done if I'm the one reproducing it in leather. Man my forehead is gonna be flat if this keeps up!!!! Cheryl

Thank you David. It is the background on the site we're (well mostly me right now because she's so busy with her other job) building right now. Google has the 'placeholder' templates I found and used that, then uploaded this into it. But she says it looks like a 5 YO did the site. But that's Lacey, you can always count on her honesty if not politeness at all times :-) I think it's more her not feeling the sketch is finished than any intention to be rude. I told her I was going to do this poll, and abide by whatever the results were if she would. I think her 'doodle' as she calls it is is awesome, but I also understand wanting something to be perfect. I would be upset if she put a product up that I didn't feel I had 'finished' yet. Maybe some of everyone's kind and supportive remarks will at least get her to finish it to the point we can use it for our logo even if she still wants a template. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. Cheryl

Thank you David. It is the background on the site we're (well mostly me right now because she's so busy with her other job) building right now. Google has the 'placeholder' templates I found and used that, then uploaded this into it. But she says it looks like a 5 YO did the site. But that's Lacey, you can always count on her honesty if not politeness at all times :-) I think it's more her not feeling the sketch is finished than any intention to be rude. I told her I was going to do this poll, and abide by whatever the results were if she would. I think her 'doodle' as she calls it is is awesome, but I also understand wanting something to be perfect. I would be upset if she put a product up that I didn't feel I had 'finished' yet. Maybe some of everyone's kind and supportive remarks will at least get her to finish it to the point we can use it for our logo even if she still wants a template. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. Cheryl

You know Chavez, we already have a logo, but it never occurred to me to change it to this. I think that's a great idea and maybe she'll slick it up the way SHE wants it, and then we change logos. That's an excellent idea. I stamp the back of our products with a horseshoe stamp twice for the double c, and this picture would work just as well for that. Thank you for taking so much time to redo the sketch and for the idea and url. Cheryl