Big Sioux Saddlery

I would not sew tack with 138 thread, WAY too light. Working and using stuff normally gets 277 for bridles and halters, unless draft stuff, then maybe 346. Finer stuff and show equipment might go down to 207, but never below that. Best of luck!

There were many different patterns available when the vintage creasers were new. It is still fairly common to find a long one with half of it being raised rolls, and the other half being flat double. Short creasers, such as yours, are often flat single, less often flat double. Single rolls were available also to put on the end shafts. A handy machinist could make those for you.

And a Minnesotan no less!!.

Silverd, there's a guy right in California that deals in leather tools and bench machines: Bruce Johnson. He's on here once in awhile. Creasers aren't that uncommon to find; I have 8 of them and only went looking for 2 of them, the rest kind of fell into my lap. I think Beilers sells them new, if Weaver has discontinued them.

Everything he just said, right there, especially the part about burying the thread. These machines are notorious for NOT having a tight stitch. The bigger the thread, the more it's going to lay on top. My 4500 does not especially like LL needles; everything has to be absolutely perfect for it to sew with them. S point needles are a little less picky, but I don't like the look as well, plus you can't sew as fine of a stitch. JLS does a nice job of stitching on that machine with the LL needles. I'd give him a listen.

It's not the running loops that I mind; as you said, they go rather quickly. It's the buckle returns and hook studs with standing loops that take too much time for me.

If you are relatively new to leatherwork in general, and building tack specifically, then yes, you would definitely be less discouraged to start with western tack. This is true especially if there is nobody in your area to apprentice under, or at least offer some help, and if you don't have access to high end equipment to study. The book by Steinke is ok; I have it and refer to it occasionally, especially for the size charts. I have never seen a book that COMPLETEY covers a subject however. It seems there is always some critical information lacking. The turnout halters will be a good project to get your feet wet.

The running loops are handsewn BEFORE they are placed on the strap. I've seen 3/8" and even 1/4" English bridle work, and let me tell you, it is tedious, fussy work. I just finished one with 1/2" cheeks. I avoid English work if at all possible. . . I get way more time in it than I can charge for in this part of the country. The raised noseband can be sewn by machine, but a 441 is not ideal. There are definitely special feet and throat plates for machines such as the Campbell/Randall for work of this type. This kind of work is fairly advanced work, and a lot of what you are going to see for repairs will likely be cheap, Asian imports that didn't cost $50 when new. That stuff you can't afford to work on. Quality bridle work of this type runs into the many hundreds of $$, and it is not something learned and perfected quickly. Incidentally, I have found the roller guide on the 441 to be next to worthless. For it to actually work as a guide, you have to sew so far in from the edge, that on fine work, you're sewing down the middle of the strap. Learn to sew without it. I very rarely use a work guide on any of my machines. About the only time is when I'm sewing rounds, and that is more to keep the filler pushed tight into the round than anything. Sometimes I'll set one for sewing harness tugs, but not always.

You're welcome. Yes, please do, I am curious.

I would have bought bridle or harness leather for this project, but since you have the skirting now, you can make it work. Don't treat it before you work it up. You'll need to wet it to make your folds, so do that and build your halters, and then when it dries, I would dip in neatsfoot oil. After a few days when the oil has migrated throughout the fibers, I would treat with more of a wax/tallow/grease type dressing. Turnout halters are highly abused pieces of equipment, and the more water resistant you can make them, the longer they will last.

I have always stood in front of the heavy machines, and sat at the light duty flatbed machines. I've never even really thought about the "why", but I guess on the heavy machines I feel like I have more control, as I am often sewing heavy, bulky stuff.

If you look back to the very first post in this thread, the OP was using W & C also.

O & S, I have not really found a cure for the issue. Leather that is the slightest bit cased up is even worse. Some was so bad I didn't think I would get it stitched. Lighter weights aren't so much an issue. . . they still squeak, but it doesn't interfere with the ability to get them sewn. . . but when I have maybe 3 layers of heavy skirting or their standard harness leather stacked, it can be a SOB. Then I will keep a block of beeswax or even a can of dry silicone spray handy and apply to the needle every few inches. Makes for slow going. It's something that Wickett does to their leather, because I've noticed a lot more drag with a swivel knife when carving W & C vs HO. Somewhere through the years, Wickett must have made some changes to their leather. Back in the mid '90's, their harness leather had a lot more wax, but still had a nice, supple hand. Now their standard harness is very dry. . . beautiful finish, but very dry. They have what they call a "show harness" selection, which I would never use for show harness, as it does have a lot of wax and oil, but is quite hard with a less than attractive finish for show harness.

Part of the squeak and needle sticking problem is Wickett and Craig's leather. I use both Wickett & Craig and Hermann Oak in the shop, and time and time again, I've had this happen with the W & C when I haven't changed a thing on the machine.

Double dammit! Provided your 6 isn't 3/4 worn out, I'd take that trade in a heartbeat! But I'm having trouble figuring out how to ship a creaser!

I'm sure you don't really need that No. 6. . . I'd give it a good forever home and you could come visit it anytime you wanted. Oh wait, you're across the pond. Dammit.

I'm sure I don't NEED ALL 16 of mine, but I like old iron. No, they don't all sew right now, but they will some day, provided I live long enough. I guarantee you there are things some of these old machines that are made to be harness stitchers and not just an "overgrown home sewing machine" (not my original term. . . I stole it) can do that the 4500's cannot. And don't be offended, because I have a 4500, and I use it often, but no machine can do everything. It just depends on what a person wants to do and where their priorities lie.

Yes, if you don't like extremes at both ends of the spectrum, sometimes within the same week, you would not do well in SD. To be fair, the western part of the state is an entirely different climate. While it will always get cold in the winter, and hot in the summer, the humidity is much lower out west. I contemplate making a move there myself.

I should have clarified, when I said 60% humidity, I meant that 60% is the lowest it will reach during the day. Overnight, it is much higher, sometimes even 100% without raining. So that amount of humidity continually for 2 or 3 days, with temps in the 80's or 90'F, or even cooler. . . 60's and 70's will do it, and I will have mold growing everywhere. It probably gets started on the nasty old neglected repair work that comes in, and it will spread to any used leather that is not treated. New, high quality leather fresh from the tannery is not so much a problem. Cheap, imported leather seems to grow mold quickly, and I don't want the stuff in the shop, even in a finished product that comes in for repair. That mold will spread throughout the shop in a short time; boxes of scrap that I have under benches and in tubs by the clicker will start to grow mold. Last summer, I had a hell of a mess. I was still operating out of the old shop, but had moved some extra inventory and used stuff to the new shop, plus had leather and finished goods in my garage. Temps and humidity went up, and I ended up spending $1200 on dehumidifiers and air purifiers. I can't even imagine what 5 and 7% humidity feels like?! When it gets down to 25-28% here in the winter, we complain about the dry air and static electricity. Too wet, too dry, too hot, too cold, we just can't be pleased.

I didn't know 5% humidity was even possible! I run dehumidifiers more months out of the year than not. Two or 3 days of 80 and 90 degree temps with humidity in the 60% range, and without dehumidifiers, I have a huge problem in the shop.

When I set spots, I set them as close to one another as I can, meaning I just move the work over enough after setting one spot, for the holder of the machine to rest right up against the previously set spot. Then you have no spacing issues. For a honeycomb pattern, set your center spot. Then set one at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00, and 9:00. Then fill in between each of those. This takes some practice on scrap to determine what sizes work together, and you have to play with the spacing a little to get it to come out right. I keep these practice pieces in a box so that when I need to make any give pattern (we call them flowers in the harness trade), all I have to do is pull out the specific pattern I want and note the spacing and get to work. In the box with the practice pieces are pieces where the spacing WASN"T right, just as a reminder to myself what WON"T work. An edge guide for the machine helps immensely in getting the spots set in a straight line along an edge or strap. In fact, I would say that it is requi

I'm going to bet it's your Organ needles. I've never had any that were any good. Schmetz and Gros Beckert are better. I had the same trouble with my 4500, changed from the Organ needles that it came with, instant improvement.

I haven't ever used or seen a Stimpson auto spotter, but I have two made by Standard rivet, and I paid a whole lot more than $1000 for each of them, in fact over double. However, the fact that you may not be able to get different dies for this one could bring the value down. A word about dies: spotters, like sewing machines, can be kind of a contrary animal. They often take some tinkering to get them to set a spot correctly. I have different sizes of dies for both of mine, but once I get them set up to run a specific size, I detest having to change them, especially the machine that sets the smaller spots. The smaller the spot, the more precise everything has to be. With an automatic, if you have trouble, it doesn't take long to blow through a bunch of spots. So, what I'm trying to say is that IF the machine works properly, I don't feel $1000 is too bad for it, even if you never find another set of dies for it, because if I could, I'd have an auto machine set up for every size spot that I commonly use, and never have to switch sizes. But, I would make very sure that the machine works. Regarding your question about the 3/8" set of dies setting other 3/8" spots with a different shaped top: I've never used anything other than standard round topped spots in either of my automatics, but I have a semi-auto attachment for a foot press, and I use the same set of dies to set umbrella or parachute spots as I use to set standard round spots. The crystal spots take a different size holder, and I'm assuming conical spots, or any other that vary much from the round shaped top, would require at least a different driver, but that may not be difficult to make or have made. Good luck.

You're welcome. In the past, I have defended Weaver time and again, but my faith in them has eroded. They are discontinuing stuff that I use every year, and they are not the "one-stop-shop" for me that they used to be. Quality is slipping in the hardware division, and I bought a handful of finished harness parts for resale last week, and was appalled at the crappy workmanship. I believe they sub that stuff out to a local shop, but regardless, it was pretty poor and if that's the level of workmanship they are fine with representing, then I will buy no more finished harness parts for resale from them. I had never used stitching chisels before I ordered the set from Weaver, so when I broke the first prong off (on the first project I'd used them on) I thought maybe it was operator error. So, I was extra careful the remainder of the project, and broke another two prongs off the long 3mm chisel. Junk, pure and simple.

Actually I was the one apologizing about highjacking and being a machine junkie. However, I think machine junkie probably describes quite a few of us here