ToddB 68

Hi terrymac , When we were talking about LCi Clear Lac, in your post #5 you said " I believe Panhandle offers it at $15.00 for the same size". And in my post #6 to you, fourth paragraph, I said " BTW, I checked Panhandle's website and yes, they offer a quart of Clear Lac for $15.00 and according to their Check Out, no taxes or Shipping charges, which is a plus for them." Well, yesterday I decided to go ahead and order the Clear Lac from Panhandle, since Bobby hadn't been around to answer the question in my post #14. I wanted to get moving along and figured I would have to "bite the $15.00 bullet" in order to do so. Oh yeah, I was all "lathered-up" and ready to make the purchase, but had to register at Panhandle first of course. After that, I completed the ordering process, but this time their order program added $18.00 for standard shipping, for a total cost of $33.00 ! So I cancelled my order. Once again, the shipping cost was "over the top" for me. I'll just have to be satisfied with an inferior product at lower total cost and performance. In the coming days I'll make a decision on some other product. BTW, the (3) products I ordered from Springfield Leather Co., Inc.(Listed in my post #14 right above.) came to $21.83 Grand total, as the standard shipping was hiked up from $5.85 to $6.85 in just the last week ! Just thought you might like to know what happened. Sorry the news isn't very up-lifting. ToddB68

Bobby, Thanks for the help in your post #13 ! I believe we are nearing the end of my quest. With reference to your comment "Personally, I challenge the notion that adding saddle soap to the edge of a piece of leather is detrimental.", I'm going to bet my poker chips on you and order the following items (shown in my previous post #4) from Springfield Leather. - Fiebing's Leathercraft CEMENT, 4oz. .............. $5.00 - Fiebing's Yellow Paste Saddle Soap, 3.5oz...........3.99 - Fiebing's Glycerine Saddle Soap #34-222102.......5.99 I'm trying to get the right "handle" on the various products used in leatherwork. Some are obvious, like CEMENT listed above, others not so obvious as to what the product actually does in the leather edge finishing process. With the above in mind, when we speak of LCi 's Neat Lac or Clear Lac, are these what you are referring to as a "final finish" at step #8 of your tutorial Finishing Edges and as a "sealer" in your last reply #13 ? If your reply to the above question is "YES" then since no one has replied with an alternate final finish sealer equivalent to Clear Lac in a lower-cost container, then I will reluctantly spend more money and buy more product than I might ever use and order the 32oz. Clear Lac from Panhandle Leather @ $15.00. I look forward to your reply. Best regards, ToddB68

Terry and Randy.........Thanks for your inputs ! I've decided to consult with hidepounder (Bob Park) before doing anything further. I sent him a PM, requesting that he read this thread to get an understanding of my dilemma and then advise how, in his opinion, I should proceed with edge finishing. Happy Trails ! ToddB68

NVLeatherWorx , Wow ! Your post #7 kinda blows my mind ! That could hurt retail sales for certain products. Do you still dye your edges, or do you just use the number 2, or whatever edge cutting tool, moisten with water, let dry until damp and burnish, doing nothing further ? I was planning to use the saddle soaps on the edges only, following Bob Park's Finishing Edges tutorial, and then using 100% pure Neatsfoot Oil on all other surfaces to darken, soften and preserve my 12oz.leather sheath and give me that "oiled leather" look that I want. But now that you have indicated saddle soap will actually draw the natural oils out of veg-tan leather and dry it out, I am caught between your advice and Bob Park's. Oh the joy of being caught between diametrically opposite advice from two different experts. I do appreciate your trying to help me reduce cost on supplies though. In the beginning, I thought with all the leather working knowledge we have in our member base, I could gain the advantage of their experience and avoid trail and error, money misspent, etc. on my first project. My objective was to find a reliable, economical, step-by-step process for doing edges that would give results like we see in the Bob Park's tutorial. However, it's looking like I might have to do some trial and error experimenting after all, to decide if I'm satisfied with the looks of your suggested process using no soaps. I do want dark-black edges though, not brown. I'll experiment on some scraps and see. ToddB68

Hi terrymac Thanks for the information ! I'm following the "Finishing Edges" process by Bob Park (hidepounder) and he uses the Fiebing's glycerine and yellow saddle soaps to rub and burnish edges prior to dyeing and finishing edges with Neat Lac (Now made by LCi as Clear Lac), so that's why I was planning on using those two products, as you probably guessed. These help to produce the smooth shape and final appearance on the edges that Bobby is known for and I am trying to duplicate. You say that when using the Quik Slik I would not need the two soaps mentioned above. So what do you use to burnish leather edges with and do you get the appearance Bobby does ? (See How Do I Do That ? forum and Finishing Edges , by Bob Park and the picture lower down on his tutorial of the edges with this process.) BTW, I checked Panhandle's website and yes, they offer a quart of Clear Lac for $15.00 and according to their Check Out, no taxes or Shipping charges, which is a plus for them. However, for me that's still too stiff on the cost of a single item when added to what I've already spent on my first leather project, plus what I plan to spend as listed in my above post #4. I know you love Quik Slik , but with the high Shipping I must pass on that one and at this point, I'm still hoping someone can suggest an alternate product that works as good as Clear Lac, but in a smaller oz. container and less total cost for a beginning Leathercrafter . Maybe that's a "pipe dream" ! STILL LOOKING FOR HELP ON THIS ! Cheers ! ToddB68

Hi Everyone ! I would like to use "Clear Lac" as an edge finish for my first leather project, a digging tool sheath, and will be using a felt-tipped pen I made as an applicator. Not knowing what my needs are going to be for bulk supplies in the future, I'm trying to keep initial costs down until I see how far I go with this new-to-me leatherwork hobby. After browsing their website for the products I want and checking shipping charges, I've decided to buy the following items from Springfield Leather and registered on their website. - Fiebing's Leathercraft CEMENT, 4oz. .............. $5.00 - Fiebing's Yellow Paste Saddle Soap, 3.5oz.........3.99 - Fiebing's Glycerine Saddle Soap #34-222102.....5.99 As mentioned in the first paragraph, I would like to use Clear Lac as an edge finish, however, the smallest container offered at Springfield is the 32oz. Quart @ $18.99 and it would weigh at least 2 lbs., so UPS standard shipping is going to make this single item real expensive for me and at this early stage in my Leatherworking career, who knows if I will ever use the bulk of it. So, unless I can find a smaller container of Clear Lac at a lower price and weight (to reduce S&H cost), I will have to locate a different supplier for this product that sells a similar edge finish at a lower price and weight. Does anyone know #1..If LCi makes a smaller container of Clear Lac and who sells it ? I made several attempts to find the LCi website and product list, but no luck. I've already looked at WYO Quik Slik and it comes In a 4oz. container for $4.50, but UPS Std. Shipping (Lowest cost method listed) is $22.49 ! And #2..What other similar product option(s) do I have with lower product price & weight ? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer for my dilemma with the edge finish. ToddB68

Hi Bobby ! Looking a your 8 step tutorial Finishing Edges, at steps #3 and #4 you are applying the two soaps and then at step #5 applying a spirit dye because, as you say, "l prefer spirit dyes as they are absorbed into the leather rather than bonding to the outside, like edge paint." What evidence do you see that the spirit dye is soaking through the two soaps and into the leather ? Do you see signs of the dye leeching out into the leather field adjacent to the edges ? Or are you seeing some other evidence, such as a change in the sheen of the edges that convinces you the dye is soaking through the soaps and being absorbed by the leather ? I'm making a digging tool sheath out of 12oz. veg-tanned leather following the steps outlined in your tutorial Finishing Edges, except for a change of dye at step #5 (read on.). I have my parts cut out and first I plan to complete steps #1, #2, #3 and #4 applying the Fiebings glycerin and yellow paste saddle soaps, rubbing and burnishing, etc.. At step #5, I plan to apply black tea to the edges to add more tannin and then apply some well-aged vinegaroon on top of the tea, after which I'll neutralize the roon with a solution of baking soda/water and then rinse-off the baking soda with warm water. I assume the roon, being acid based, will penetrate through the two soaps and into the leather, same as the spirit dye, but I don't know what to look for as evidence, thus my questions above. Then I'll do the finishing steps #6, #7 and #8. At step #8, I believe Neat-Lac is no longer available, so will have to choose an alternate product. I've been searching the Internet for an alternate product, but shipping charges across the nation are so ridiculous ! For instance one company in Wyoming has an economical price of $4.50 on a 4oz. bottle of Quik Slik, but UPS standard shipping adds another $22.49, or you might as well say $27.00 total ! So, I'll see what I can find locally here in Ohio. Since I'm just getting started in leatherwork with my digging tool sheath, I want to keep costs down and you wouldn't believe how much I've invested already ! Thanks Bob.......I look forward to your reply ! ToddB68

UKRay , Thanks for the caution on using steel tacks/nails, however, as I stated in the third paragraph of my post #3, " and tacked with a few small brass escutcheon pins.". Nevertheless, I appreciate your concern. Cheers mate ! ToddB68

Bev478 ..........Yes ! Thanks for your help. ToddB68

AndiH, Thanks for your reply ! In the last paragraph of my above post #4 (copied in quotes below.), I made a mistake. Nigels' YouTube vidios are not on the Home page of this website. Actually, they're here > Leatherworker Board > How Do I Do That ? sub-forum > post by immiketoo , Ambassador member, sub-forum page #1 > topic titled: Basic Saddle Stitch Tutorial by Nigel Armitage > dated 1-4-13. "Don't forget to watch the Nigel Armitage You Tube videos on the home page of this website ! You can watch more of his topics by Googling "Nigel Armitage". Some of the most excellent tutorials I've ever seen on leatherworking !" Sorry for my mistake Mike, but this should put things right ! ToddB68

Tom, Thanks for your helpful reply ! I've been watching Nigels' videos on YouTube for some time now, but I seem to remember we had a couple of his video tutorials on the LW website, but couldn't locate here. Was hoping a member or mod could direct me to the proper forum, or otherwise advise why they were taken off (If they were.). Personally, I thought they were a great help to leatherwork newbies. Not trying to second-guess any admin decisions ; just curious. Hope someone can smarten me up on this matter because I may have misinformed a member in a post today. ToddB68

No post.......please reply to the topic question if you can. Thanks ! ToddB68

Hi AndiH, I have some information to help you get started in the hobby of leathercraft. One tool used for stitch spacing in preparation for hand sewing is called the "Overstitch Wheel" and it sure makes fast work of accurately marking stitch holes prior to piercing your awl holes. This tool can be used for marking the spi (stitches-per-inch) desired on a grooved stitch line and for running back over the stitches after sewing is completed to enhance stitch alignment. It is simply a small metal wheel, with teeth spaced around the circumference. This wheel is on a tiny axle mounted in a slot at the front end of a metal shank with a wooden handle.These tools come with a single wheel, or alternately you can buy the handle as a 3-wheel system, which is the best way to go I think. You simply run the wheel of choice down your stitch-groove line and presto ! The "system" package I bought from Tandy came with spacing wheels for 5, 6 and 7 spi and a small screw driver for changing these wheels. There are overstitch wheels with more teeth if you want finer stitches, or just 4 teeth for coarse (sometimes referred to as "running" stitches.). However, the 5,6,7 wheel combination seems to cover average requirements. I bought my 3-wheel system through the mail from one of the Tandy stores here in Ohio. These are made in Taiwan and the price is friendly. There are a few other types of similarly designed tools. One is called simply a "Spacing wheel" and another is called a "Buckstitch Wheel", so be careful to choose the correct one desired. Information for thread and needle sizes is available in the thread started by Pablo27 on June 18, 2013, titled "Thread Sizes And Needle Sizes". Here's the route on this website ....... Fabrication board > Sewing Leather forum > go to the above thread-starter topic (Use the search tool.). Don't forget to watch the Nigel Armitage You Tube videos on the home page of this website ! You can watch more of his topics by Googling "Nigel Armitage". Some of the most excellent tutorials I've ever seen on leatherworking ! Good Luck ! ToddB68

Red Cent.........Thanks much for all the information in your posts ! }}}} " Very helpful ! " ToddB68

camano ridge, Thanks for your explanation of why it would be preferable to stamp and crease the front of my tool sheath after wet forming and drying (If done before, wet forming would deform the stamping and creasing from molding and stretching the leather.). Attached is a drawing that member Dwight Cimino posted to me, showing how I could make the mold, but I won't be "round forming" the bottom, as he mentioned on the drawing (See next paragraph for explanation.). I designed my sheath to be square at the bottom and the mouth of the open hole (Ref. attached drawing.) plugged with a 3/8" to 1/2" thick, half-moon shaped, piece of leather cut and shaped from a shoe heel, then glued in place and tacked with a few small brass escutcheon pins. Other than the creasing, my stamping is going to be very meager.....a single symbol on the face piece, done with stamping tools I made in High School metal shop around 1959, approx. 55 years ago ! Thanks again to Dwight for the idea on the mold ! Cheers ! ToddB68

Hi Folks ! I am making a Scabbard (or if you prefer, a long, narrow Sheath) out of 12 oz. Veg-tan leather for a digging tool. I have the leather parts cut to size & shape and the edges roughly rounded in the appropriate areas but they still need sanding smooth. Final finishing of the edges to be done later. I cut the front wider than the back to allow for wet forming to provide space for my digging tool to slide in. After the front piece is wet formed and dried, I plan to glue the parts together, make sewing holes with awl and hand-sew parts together by the process described in Al Stohlmans' book: The Art of HAND SEWING Leather. (I like the old traditional ways of doing things !) After gluing and sewing the formed /dried front to the back, as mentioned above I plan to do the final finishing of edges, i.e. a light sanding to remove roughness and round edges, dye with vinegaroon and let dry , lightly burnish to smooth-down leather fibers, seal vinegaroon with whatever sealer I decide on (Still checking the properties of various products suggested by members here.), a more intense burnishing and then final polishing with paraffin wax, to achieve a glossy-black finish on the edges. Then apply coats of 100% Premium Neatsfoot Oil over all outside and inside surfaces. OK, enough background information so you know what I'm planning to do. Now, to the question in my topic. " Should Stamping & Creasing Be Done Before Wet Forming " ? Or can it be done after wet forming ? If after, I assume the dried front will be harder and somewhat more resistant to creasing and stamping unless supported underneath. What are the pros/cons ? Need your advice please. Thanks, ToddB68

Hey Guys & Gals, I know everyone likes to give opinions and share experiences with glues, but electrothon's white glue suggestion seems to have all the properties we need for leatherwork...#1 Not an "instant" bonding glue, so allows realignment of parts if needed, #2 Permanent bond after some drying time, #3 Dries clear, leaving no ugly residue at edges, #4 No rubbery layer to get on needles. So what else do we need in a glue ? As for the "permanent" aspect, I can see where that is necessary if you are a shoe cobbler affixing a thick heel onto a shoe sole, but with relatively light weight leather projects that get sewn together, wouldn't the white glue be permanent enough ? ToddB68

Back on this subject again I had the following thoughts. Remember I'm just a beginner and don't know all the angles ! After musing over the title of this thread and back-reading the entire thread again, I have to wonder why anyone would want to use a temporary glue in the first place ? If you are going to sew the pieces of leather together, why would you want/need a temporary glue ? Instead........... ........Why not use a white glue like electrothon spoke of, that offers some working time to realign edges if needed and a permanent bond after some drying time, plus the added benefit of not leaving an ugly residue at the edges ! ? Seems like that would be the ideal glue for all leather gluing applications. ToddB68

electrathon , Superpacker's thread-starter post is asking about "Temporary" gluing. Is the glue you are using a permanent or temporary glue like rubber glue ? Is it in fact "Eco Flo Leather Weld" ? Sounds like permanent, i.e. "Weld". ToddB68

mtroyalguy, I like ChuckBurrows idea "You can also overlap without added thickness by skiving both edges and then making a lap joint." You could skive both pieces, sand flat and glue together with your choice of bonding adhesive, then stitch for added strength and esthetics. I don't think it would ever come apart ! ToddB68

Cyberthrasher........Since you are taping the first 1/8" of the edge, your stitch line would be behind the tape, in other words maybe 3/16" to 1/4" in from the edge of the project for example. I assume you are applying just 1/8" of the tape edge in between the pieces of leather. After you finish stitching, do you remove the tape from between the two pieces of leather by just holding onto the flap of tape and pulling out the 1/8" stuck in between the leathers ? Does it ever tear, leaving pieces of tape between the leathers ? (Hope I'm getting the correct mental picture.) BTW, you have such talent with leatherwork....Mega-Kudos ! Thanks, ToddB68

Chief31794 ......That's a excellent answer......an attest to your leatherworking experience and knowledge ! ToddB68

Leathervan, TomG beat me to it !........I was just about to post what he said, so I'll just add one other thing. Do yourself a favor and get a copy of Al Stohlman's book titled: Leathercraft Tools (Stock NO. 61960-00) and look at pages 82 through 85. That book will serve as a good guide for setting all kinds of snaps in the future and how to solve problems. In addition, it has helpful information on the majority of other leatherworking tools. A "must have" for your leatherworking reference library ! ToddB68

chiefjason , Thanks for your suggestions..........I'll proceed accordingly ! ToddB68

camano ridge , Thank for the information ! That really helps and I'll experiment with some Leather scraps as you suggested. ToddB68