Bob

Laura, thats great you found this site. It's a great place to meet people and discuss ideas. My sister lives in Sherwood Park. She worked for "Vic" for along time. Her name is Corri. Nice to have you join in. Bob

THIS MACHINE SOLD, THANKS FOR ALL THE EMAILS.

It's quite a mile stone to have actually finished your first saddle. I've seen it where someone wants to build their own saddle, buy all the makings and materials. Get started only to leave it and never finish it. Congratulations on completing your first saddle.

ASAP, I'll post the information for next years show. It's a great place to come. If you can sing, do peotry, make saddles and leather gear, or paint nice pictures. Then plan on attending the Kamloops Cowboy Festival in March of 2009. More details to follow.

Keith, thats very well said. Trouble is many people that make saddles, claim the "Custom builder" title and build a saddle in 2 days, sell for like you said, 2500-3000. They market within the industry "Custom saddles" and to a degree they are custom built, because they're not off the shelf. In our part of the country thats a problem, customer come in my shop, spend an hour looking at what I have to offer and drive down the road and buy somewhere else because it's cheaper. Bottom line is, there seems to be more customers willing to buy a cheaper saddle, "Custom made" than a custom saddle that costs 1500-2000 more. Some can see the difference, many cannot see it. Tell me what you think. Is there more customers willing to spend 4000 than 6500?. I think the answer to that question may not be that easy to answer. It would depend largely on how big your world is... With todays marketing skills the world is delivered to your doorstep. Nice website by the way. Very well done. How much traffic and sales do you get from the website alone? I mean overseas sales? As soon as I learn more about next years "Kamloops Cowboy Festival" I'll post the information here to give everyone tons of time to plan on coming to Kamloops. The heart of cowboy country.

Randy, the base price means something different where ever you go. In my shop, 3500 (Subject to increase) has been my base price for some time. It included... double rigging & back cinch leather covered stirrups real sheepskin's Custom trees from Timberline saddle tree company (Steve Mason ) Randy's a good guy and makes decent stuff, I've been using his stuff for years and have no problems, sure there's better. But you'll wait and wait and pay dearly too. I suppose I'm what you'd call a loyal customer... doesn't include padded seat silver concho's stamping or tooling of any kind

Ryan, thats a nice buckle. Richard is very good smithy. Everyone is welcome to come to Kamloops, bring you gear, art, music and whatever else you do thats associated with western lifestyle. Signup early to ensure a space, for stalls will be limited. Saddle makers are welcome, the more the better. We have a terrific facility with lots of hotels in this town.

Mine is 3500, plus extras....

A woman goes to her boyfriend's parents' house for Christmas dinner. This is to be her first time meeting the family and she is very nervous. They all sit down and begin eating a fine meal. The woman is beginning to feel a little discomfort, thanks to her nervousness and the broccoli casserole. The gas pains are almost making her eyes water. Left with no other choice, she decides to relieve herself a bit and lets out a dainty fart. It wasn't loud, but everyone at the table heard the poof. Before she even had a chance to be embarrassed, her boyfriend's father looked over at the dog that had been snoozing under the woman's chair, and said in a rather stern voice, 'Skippy!'. The woman thought, 'This is great!' and a big smile came across her face. A couple of minutes later, she was beginning to feel the pain again. This time, she didn't even hesitate. She let a much louder and longer rrrrrip. The father again looked at the dog and yelled, 'Dammit Skippy!' Once again the woman smiled and thought 'Yes!' A few minutes later the woman had to let another rip. This time she didn't even think about it. She let a fart rip that rivaled a train whistle blowing. Once again, the father looked at the dog with disgust and yelled, 'Dammit Skippy, get away from her, before she shits on you!'

It would seem that starting a new topic about saddle pricing would be good. Everyone seems to have their own ideas for what to charge for a new saddle. For example… Their level of skill and experience The amount of demand made for their service The various costs involved for leather, hardware, and trees etc. The amount of time and effort involved It would be interesting to see what you are charging for a base price on a new saddle in your region. Feel free to make other comments that would help others keep in step with current prices. The idea is to help other saddle makers price their work, stay competitive, and make an honest living.

Hedge, nice work. The buckle works very nice for that belt... Those loops would fit perfect for my 450 Marlin.

I've been doing it this way for many years now. Haven't had too much troubles with stitching until I tried most recently to sew with a new (different) stitcher. Thanks for your comments. Greg, I'd sure like to learn what you use for foam. Rumour has it that Ken in Calgary is selling some good foam that has no memory.

This is a couple pictures of two different saddles near completion. Both inlaid seats, done differently. The first picture has the top edge of the seat rounder off with an edger. The second picture is undercut on 45 degree angle with a french edger and NOT edged on top, leaving the seat leather fit tight up against the padded inlay.

Ryan, I use biothane sewn onto light stirrup leathers. The 1" strip sewn just over the holes seems to do the trick. For a light training ladies saddle, the first place I'd start with is getting a light tree. A wood post is lighter, rather than a bronze/metal type. Light rawhide will help alot too. Talk to your tree maker, they can help alot to cut the weight down.

Greg, I understand exactly what you mean. I will say this one thing, and I invite feedback from all of you. I'm not sure chrome tan leather is the end all for inlaid seats. Why? Because I think that the top edge of the seat leather should not be edged at all, and instead undercut with a french edger at 45 degrees, this will leave a sharp edge on the top of the seat leather. This is a good thing in my mind. Not what you normally see done. I'm not refering to the undercut Greg mentioned, to allow for the thickness of the inlay. This undercut with a small french edger will only allow the foam and inlay to fit tight against the seat leather itself, with not space in between. Using foam thats only slightly thicker than the seat. Gives me a tighter fit with no spaces for dirt, twigs and leaves to gather in the crack where the inlay and seat meet. Veg tan leather will allow me to fit the leather and glue it BEST to the foam, taking shape much better than chrome tan will allow. Please bring feedback on this issue.

I personnally like Jim's idea of putting 2 oz belt lining leather under the foam. I got so excited about it last night I didn't sleep either .... Now what I will do is use the draw down to preshape the lining leather against the ground seat, then glue the foam to it first, with the seat in place... of course... then glue the inlay leather on top the foam, while the seat is in place.... then take out the seat and glue the inlay leather again the edges of the foam. then glue the seat to the padded inlay and sew it up. being sure to skive the lining leather before this all starts. I like this idea because the foam never seems to be the same shape when it's all done. With a lining leather under it. It can't change shape. And for the same reason as many of you suggested before. How can one ever lift that seat off for repairs without having to replace the inlaid seat as well? I think a liner is needed for that reason. I've learned to NEVER be "hard and fast" about anything in this trade. There's always something to learn. Thanks Jim for those ideas. Greg and Steve also had some good ideas too. I'm gonna be thinking about this awhile. I will say this one thing, and I invite feedback from all of you. I'm not sure chrome tan leathe is the end all for inlaid seats. Why? Because I think that the edge of the seat leather should not be edged and undercut with a french edger at 45 degrees. The foam only slightly thicker than the seat. Gives me a tighter fit with no spaces for dirt, twigs and leaves to gather in the crack where the inlay and seat meet. Veg tan leather will allow me to fit the leather and glue it BEST to the foam, taking shape much better than chrome tan will allow. Please bring feedback on this issue. It's the same here as it is for many of us, learned by ossmowsis , how to do it wrong a 100 different ways. For so long, this industry has been tight lipped about how to do things. That we have to learn by trial 'n error...

Shirley, that halareous.... "Croak"..... Just do it, several times, before you Croak.... LOL

Greg, I agree with you. It just doesn't make any sense to think that sewing with a large needle machine for sewing skirts that it would deflect over a stingray bump. I've not done any inlays with it. However, I can imagine that a person may have troubles with top stitching on a light duty table top. I have a pair of boots in this stuff, it's the most uncomfortable boots I've ever had. NO STRETCH AT ALL. It's brutal on my feet. I just plain don't use em.

You guys from Florida, just be quiet about the warm weather and sunny skies. This week I noticed the green grass poking out of the ground. It's been around +12 for this last couple weeks, thats about 45 degrees for you Yankees.... It's all fine around here, been raining off and on for two days, with sunny breaks... Your friendly neighbourhood weatherman from Sunny Hot Kamloops, BC Canada....

Ryan, thats a nice saddle. I went to look at the saddles in that show. You did a nice job. Sorry I didn't get to meet you. I didn't put a saddle in the show because I didn't have one completed at the time. It's been very busy around here. Congratulations on winning the show. I heard it was a very nice buckle too.

JW, it's called a pencil roll around these parts.... I always use a plug on this binding. for several reasons. Firstly, when the cantle back goes on, it's higher than needs to be, then after cutting a strap 5/8 or 3/4 with a draw knife, it's straight. Then I glue it on top of the edge of the cantle and trim the cantle back off flush with the plug i just glued down, thats how i get it straight with the wood. Then once the seat is glued down, it's trimmed off to match the cantle back. Therefore the plug or filler is between the two. The second main reason is the binding looks more substanial or beefy, stronger. On the pencil bindings a person can use a heavy binding too. If you don't mind working at it. you can put in 7 - 9 oz binding. Thats what I aim for. Further more, if you wanted to scallop the back edge, the heavy binding is less likely to curl up on the scallops, also if your into hiding the stitches, you will require a heavier binding anyway.

Hey Tazzmann, I'm not sure you can possibly be a leather worker and NOT DRINK COFFEE.....

I have a teflon glue pot, I've never used anything but a solvent based glue called weldwood contact cement. The teflon coating is only on the outside, it's black. When the outside gets at coating of dry glue. I simply use the fresh glue from inside the pot and brush the outside, then come back a few minutes later when it's half dry and rub it off. To get the glue out from the inside, well thats a tough one. I think that only a solvent will soften the glue enough to dig it out from inside. I once had my glue pot dry out and thats what I did. Water won't work on solvent based glue. I think I just used a flat stick much like a ruler to dig it out from inside after using the solvent to soften the glue. I hope this helps you out.

I've fiberglassed broken bars before, many years ago. It was a cutter, that saddle is still in use today. However, it was a rawhide tree and wasn't broken that bad. I mean not all the way through, just only part way on the top side where someone cut the rawhide when they made it. It was only a hassel lifting the ground seat. I didn't take the seat off, just lifted everything back and tied it there till it setup and dried. Fiberglass stinks and makes a mess in your shop. You gotta leave all the windows and door open. Ryan, you may find the saddle is not worth replacing a tree and barely worth fixing it with fiber glass. In this part of the country, you would pay upwards of 1000 to 1200 for a replacement of a tree, and have to wait a good while to have that tree. Most makers don't wanna mess with duplicates, thats why they charge more for it. I sure wouldn't mess with doing a replacement tree. So many things could go wrong. You may end up replacing the swell cover or cantel back. You just can't say how accurate the duplicate will actually be, until it's on your bench and putting it back together. If the guy don't wanna buy a new one and really wants the old thing repaired, well thats my two bits worth. Chances are if the original maker didn't bother using a good tree to start with, then chances are it's not that much of a saddle either. Would it be worth a big fat bill to replace the tree? Plus all the hassel that goes with it? I sure hope these notes help you out, to think about what you maybe getting into.

Rawhide, I must agree with you on that point. Good coffee is just good coffee.... black as black, fresh is good though. Just don't mess it up with cream & sugar..... it's like drinkin' good whiskey with POP in it.... :pirate2: LOL