TrooperChuck

Bobbles. I'm gonna have to remember that word. It's a lot more polite than the words I use to describe my bobbles! (And, on my 2nd saddle, I had lots of them!) Thanks for sharing your pics.

Great looking saddle, Jake. Like others have already said, my first didn't look that good!

I agree with Chris! Now that I'm almost 50, I find the idea of bucking to be less and less amusing. That reminds me of something my Grandpa used to say. He was an old horseman, who was a cavalry trooper along the Mexican border in the 1920's. Whenever someone would ask him about being bucked off, he would say... "There's only two types of horsemen. Those who have been bucked off. And those who are gonna be."

GrumpyGuy makes some good points. I haven't chased cattle, and I've never roped one, so I find his comments very interesting. Once again, I guess the answer is... "It depends!" The one SOLID fact I do know, and I'm sure many of you will agree with me... If there's a way for a horse to get himself in trouble he'll find it! Sometimes I wonder if horses were put on earth for us to love, or just to aggravate us!

Wow! I bet when Joanne asked about rear cinches she didn't expect such a response. I guess it just goes to show that sometimes there's no simple answer. D.A. Kabatoff, thanks for sharing your insights on saddle trees and their relationship to rear cinches. I always appreciate hearing different view points, and I think yours makes sense for lots of horse owners who have the luxury of riding one horse with one saddle for a few hours at a time. I'm not a cowboy/roper like GrumpyGuy, but like him, I sometimes spend many days in the back country. Grump's comments about a horse's back changing during a week-long ride is right on target. They lose fat, build up muscle, and the saddle doesn't sit on the horse the same at the end of the trip as it did at the beginning. And then, there's the days when you ride several horses. Even though I can make my own saddles, I don't have the luxury of having a specific saddle for every horse. It would be cost prohibitive. So, for me, I like using rear cinches. But, every horse owner is different. That's what makes this forum so interesting.

Thanks for sharing that link. Mr. Ghormley does some awesome work! I've only been doing leather work a few years, but during that time I discovered I greatly prefer handstitching to machine stitching. I thought there must be something wrong with me for likeing something that is obviously more labor- and time-intensive. I'm glad to learn there are others who feel the same.

ArtS: I don't have any suggestions for an eye patch, but I also have a horse with one eye. She's 27 years old, and lost her left eye after encountering a porcupine when she was four years old. I guess maybe some people are freaked out by the empty eye socket. Perhaps that's why they want an eye patch? Personally, I rarely even notice the empty socket anymore. I wish the horse had both eyes, but she seems to have adapted really well to having only one.

Thanks, Timbo, for sharing your technique for covering the canteen caps. I've made about 20 leather covered canteens, which sell pretty good in my area. (It seems that almost everyone with a horse and a western saddle NEEDS a leather covered canteen!) Your technique seems a lot simpler than how I was doing it. Once the leather cap is molded and dries, do you do anything to keep it permanently attached to the plastic cap? I've tried drilling tiny holes in the rim at the bottom of the plastic cap and stitching the leather there, but that is pretty tedious. Again, thanks for sharing!

Like you, I am also planning on building a half-seat saddle, and had no idea how to do it. The information posted here has been a great help to me. Thanks, folks. The Dick Sherer article that Darc mentioned is in the Sept/Oct 2004 issue of LCSJ. I ordered a copy of it from the LCSJ website.

Sometimes, we are our own worst critics. In my case, I've NEVER made anything that I didn't have at least one regret or disappointment. I guess that's what drives us to constantly improve. JAM, I think your saddle is great. The swivel knife carving is something I've never thought about before. Now, I'm gonna have to give it a try! Thanks for sharing.

That rack looks great. I've only been involved in this forum for less than a week, but already I've gained so many new ideas that my head is spinning! Thanks for sharing. Now, I gotta go buy some plexiglass. LOL

I've had "bomb-proof" horses spook and take off in a run-away. I've seen "family horses" brush up against trees, badly bruising the rider. I once watched a "dead calm" pony go berserk in a show arena, bucking it's little girl rider off. I had an extrememly calm and gentle horse suddenly attacked by an aggressive dog that showed up unexpectedly. The horse panicked and ran straight up a hill through impossibly thick brush. It took me two hours of tracking on foot to recover the horse. One of the best horseman I've ever personally known was riding his "grandpa's horse" when a passing trucker thought it would be funny to honk his air horn as he drove by. That cowboy spent the next three months in the hospital. If any of those things had happened while my child was strapped to the side of the horse, I'd deserve to be investigated for child endangerment. The fact is, no matter how well you know your horse, there is ALWAYS the chance of something unexpected and unpredictable happening. If that picture is for real, and not something cobbled together on a computer, that woman needs to be made aware of the realities of horses.

Those are beautiful! Where can I learn to make my own cinches?

Great job! I remember how I felt when I finished my first saddle... My only caution to you is that this kind of work is ADDICTIVE! I'm about to start my 6th saddle, and I'm just as excited about it as I was with the first. Thanks for sharing your pic.

Wow! I never stopped to think about what would happen if one of those things went through my finger. Ouch! Thanks for the safety tip. I'm gonna make one of those things right away.

Personally, I believe no one has yet found a totally satisfactory replacement for the traditional wood and rawhide saddle tree. There is only one reason why they've been used for hundreds of years... because they are the best! My opinion only. I've repaired a couple ralide trees, the rear bars of both had shattered into multiple pieces. I've never seen a wood/rawhide tree do this. The old cowboy who taught me how to make saddles believed ralide trees can't hold nails as securely or as long as wood/rawhide trees. His advice to me was "Just pretend you've never heard of those."

I did some repair work on a MacPherson saddle last year. Having never heard of the company, I decided to do some research. After many emails and telephone calls, and after being directed to several people who seemed never to be in their offices, I finally talked with one of their long-time employees who gave me the following information... MacPherson Saddle Company (later renamed Macpherson Leather Company) has been in existence since the early 1900's. They've had several offices in various locations in California and Washington, some of which no longer exist. One of those offices used to be in San Francisco, but it closed sometime around 1990. (That particular shop only produced saddles during the 1960's and 1970's.) Currently, they have an office in Seattle, Washington, and Los Angeles, California. The Los Angeles office was still making saddles in 1993, but I don't know if they make them today. When I asked if the company had records for serial numbers and dates of manufacture, I was told, yes, they do, but the guy I talked to didn't know where those records might be located. I don't think the company makes saddles any more. Their website (http://www.macphersonleather.com) has leather goods, shoemaking supplies, and saddlemaking materials.

I like the looks of a slick fork saddle, but I think those nice lines are marred when someone adds a pair of bucking rolls. I've always felt that if you're gonna put bucking rolls on a slick fork saddle you probably should have bought a swell fork to start with. But, everyone has a different idea of what looks good.

Joanne: I've already given my ideas about rear cinches in a different posting, but here's a few more thoughts that come to mind. For back-county riding, there are two schools of thought with rear cinches... Some feel that rear cinches are not needed, and are merely a "branch trap" waiting to be snagged by low bushes and trees. Others feel that, when used properly, a rear cinch helps secure a saddle, thereby allowing you to use a slightly looser front cinch. After lots of experimenting on back-country rides and packing trips, I've come to be a believer in the second theory. With my rear cinch snug, but not tight, against my horse I don't have to tighten the front cinch as much as I used to. That makes my horse very happy. By keeping the rear cinch snug, it also reduces the odds of something getting tangled in it. If you've read my posting in regards to your question about breast collars, you've seen my other thoughts on those, and rear cinches. (Unfortunately, I saw that posting first, answered it, and then saw this one.) happy trails!

I'm fortunate in that I live on the edge of a National Forest in northeast Washington. As a result, all of my riding is done in back-country conditions. Much of this country is mountainous. In spite of that, I ride without a breast collar on my horse. As a previous poster has mentioned, if your saddle fits your horse, a breast collar isn't necessary. To me, it's just one more piece of equipment liable to get tangled up in bushes or low tree branches, and possibly cause a bad accident. If I was roping and dragging cattle, maybe I'd use a breast collar. But, as a back-country trail rider and packer, I don't need it. If, after a long ascent or descent, I notice my saddle is slipping, it gives me an excuse to get off my horse to re-adjust things. This allows my horse a short break, which he appreciates. (Remember, when you're riding, and you want to reward your horse for his good work, the BEST reward you can give him is to get off his back for a few mintues!) I DO use a rear cinch, though. Unlike lots of riders, I tighten the rear cinch so it makes snug (not tight!) contact with the horse's belly. By doing this, I can ride with my front cinch a bit looser, which makes my horse more comfortable. Three cautions about using a rear cinch... First, ALWAYS have a connector strap between the front and rear cinches. This prevents the rear cinch from sliding back and turning into a rodeo bucking strap. Second, keep the rear cinch snug, but not tight. If it's tight, it can restrict his ability to arch his back and move freely. Lastly, NEVER let the rear cinch be so loose that it hangs down below the horse's belly! About 90% of riders I see using rear cinches use them wrong. I've seen some hanging as much as three or four inches below the horse. In the back-country, this is a disaster waiting to happen. Should a bush or low tree branch get caught in that cinch, or even worse, if the horse gets his own leg caught in the cinch, you're in for a life threatening experience.

Butch: A couple years ago I was in the same situation: I really wanted to learn how to make saddles, but I was unsure how to go about it. I bought a few books, which were excellent sources of information, but I realized that books alone weren't going to answer all my questions. I started asking around if anyone knew of a saddlemaker in the area. (I live in northeast Washington.) Someone told me of an old cowboy named Bill Bacon, who had been making saddles for years, and he offered to take me out to Bill's house and introduce me. At the time, Bill was 82 years old. His saddle shop was located in a log building that he and his wife built long ago. After being introduced to Bill, I told him I really wanted to learn saddle making and I was willing to pay him for his time. Bill's price??? I had to pay for the materials I used and provide him with FIVE CORDS OF FIREWOOD! To say that I was pleased with this deal would be a massive understatement! I spent five months, working about 4 days a week, working with Bill. It was a great experience. He's now mostly retired from saddlemaking, due to health reasons, but he still likes to work on a saddle now and then. I probably could have taught myself how to make a saddle using the Stohlman encyclopedias and other references. In fact, recently I did make a Stohlman saddle following the books step-by-step, but I am extremely glad that I had a real-life instructor to start with. Bill was able to show me and tell me things that, in my ignorance, I didn't know I needed to know. So, my short answer (I hope you'll pardon this long-winded version) is that learning from an experienced saddle maker is best. Use the books later, as a reference guide, when you're on your own.

I'm about to start my 6th saddle... It will be a Santa Fe style, with slots in the cantle, Sam Stagg rigging and a half-seat. I'm undecided whether to cover the entire cantle, or leave the rawhide exposed above the half-seat. IF I decide to cover the entire cantle, does anyone have any suggestions, photos, or advice for how best to install the leather around the slots in the cantle? Thanks

The Stohlman saddlemaking books are a great resource. I own all three, and they were well worth the investment in price. I've made five saddles so far. The first four were made using the techniques taught to me by an 82-year old cowboy/saddlemaker. He taught me some excellent stuff, but I wanted to explore and learn some different methods, so, the fifth one I made step-by-step using the Stohlman books. It turned out great. Another book I have is the Saddlemaker's Shop Manual. It's not as detailed at the Stohlman books (heck, NO ONE is as detailed as the Stohlman books!) but it seems to have some good information and it costs a lot less than the Stohlmans. Mine cost me about $90. You can order it from Iris Adams at saddlewizard3@hotmail.com Good luck and happy saddlemaking!