Spyros

Thanks Nah I don't have clients as such, I just make whatever I feel like making and then I typically get stuck with it for months LOL because the whole process of finding customers and making an effort to sell is about as interesting to me as watching paint dry So no, not for a customer. I just made it for the love of making it, and now at some point I have to figure out what to do with it.

I've made a few bags for myself this is by far the type I reach for the most for every day commuting. It know it looks fairly old school but I like it for practical reasons: it sits upright so I can reach for my stuff easily (which is more than I can say for most other bags), it holds its shape, it's just huge inside, fast and single-hand closure without having to squeeze the whole bag to press some button, and it has this big pocket in the back for easy access to a book or a tablet for the train ride to work. Still, there were a few things I wanted to improve, which I did on this version. First I made the strap attaching on the top. Attaching on the sides never worked well because the straps were hitting the sides of the top flap making it buckle and wrinkle over time, and attaching on the back over the pocket made the bag a little unbalanced, the bottom was tilting towards my leg. Second I wanted to make the handle softer, in previous copies I had built the handle around a hard material (timber or plastic pipe) to make it rigid, but in every day use I found that a softer and flexible handle was just more convenient I also used a softer leather for the handle (horween chromexcel) just to make it nicer to the touch, and finished it with a baseball stitch in the bottom for the same reason. Inside I finished it with very soft nappa, but this time different colour thread on the bobbin to match the leather in both interior and exterior. And lastly I added a party trick... a detachable baguette bag that sits flat on the gusset so it doesn't take much space, and secures with a twist latch. This comes from everyday use experience, it was annoying having things like pens and lighters rattling around in the bag. The typical solution is to add a bunch of pockets and holders inside the bag for little things but I found what was really most convenient is some sort of case you can take out and put on your desk, and then put it back in the bag in some way that doesn't take much usable space. And this is the solution I came up with. The leather is sedwick english bridle, about 1.5mm And now for the difficult part: find someone to pay for it LOL

Yeah I knew you were getting close Seems like nobody gets a sewing machine without jumping a few hoops LOL Now on to the next necessary marathon: learn how to tune the damn thing. At least with this we can actually help

It looks like a great machine, enjoy and show us what you make

Wow that looks like a lot and not easy work

I've tried all the things mentioned here and sometimes nothing works, it will either not show or will not be removable afterwards, pick your poison. Especially those "leatherworking" silver ink pens can sometimes achieve the impossible: both not show AND not be removable afterwards LOL If I am confident the mark will be hidden I just use black sharpies. If it will be seen I make tiny marks (which I typically can't find afterwards)

Welcome mate Excuse my ignorance, out of curiosity what does a motor trim shop actually do? Does it have to do with leather belts?

I've made dozens because at some point everybody I know wanted one. I found what works best is cheap, thick shoulder, chrome or combination tan is fine. You want thick because it holds its shape and cheap because, well anything will do really, it's just a tray. And if you want fancier just stitch a lining on the bottom only (not on the parts that fold). Quick and cheap and easy sales for people to buy for gifts. Also a great way to get rid of off cuts

Yeah some of them are, others not so much... and when you find a good one they're really hard to replace, it takes a lot of experience combined with a mathematically organised brain. But it also requires lateral thinking sometimes to step out of boundaries or make a business decision to solve a difficult logistical problem. I don't think artificial intelligence will ever be able to replace some jobs like that, not in our lifetimes anyway.

Fred, guess how much things have changed since then! (spoiler alert: not a lot). I used to be in the waste industry until recently, working for a multi-billion company that has a massive fleet of garbage trucks that collect waste in many countries. Big massive customers like the MacDonalds/Councils/Tescos of this world. Now, a garbage truck is very much like a school bus, right? It starts from the depot and does the same route every day, same time, same stops, picking up the same rubbish bins. Think of it as a loop on a map with dozens or even hundreds of pick up points along the way. And every depot has multiple loops originating from it, because every depot has 50-100 trucks working every day. So what happens when you have a new big customer with multiple new rubbish bins to be picked up in multiple locations? How do they decide which loop they will assign them to? Some would be located directly on those loops, but some would be further out which means some routes would need to be stretched out a little, or a lot. They also have to think about availability because pick up times have to align with the truck schedule, you can't pick up early in the morning a bin that the customer tells you they will be rolling out later in the afternoon. And you have to think about the size of the bin because some trucks have a system that only picks up small size bins like your residential wheelie bins, other trucks only pick up medium, others only big skip bins, and so on. And you have to think about the type of waste because you can't mix recyclables and general garbage in the same truck. And you can't overload a route with too many pick ups because by law a driver can only drive so many hours a day, and a truck can only carry so much waste. And you have to do all your calculations by day of the week, because bigger bins are not picked up every day, and you can't pick up on Mondays a bin that is only available on Tuesdays. And all that before you even start thinking about traffic, tolls and road works. You have to find the most efficient way of doing those pick ups because trucks/drivers/fuel can get very expensive very quickly. So it is a bit complex, it's like solving a giant Sudoku. I can hear you saying "Thank God we have computers and all that intelligent software these days!" Right? Right? Nope :D What they do is just give the problem to a guy. Usually a 60 year old guy with decades experience, usually a former driver himself. And he locks himself up in a room for a week with a "do not disturb" sign outside and thinks about it. Basically no computers are involved, just a printed map, red pen, pencil, eraser and a big cup of coffee. That's it man, that's all they got in the year of our Lord 2022. I imagine that's not very different than how Xerxes's generals did it 2,500 years ago.

2,500 years ago Xerxes took an army of hundreds of thousands to Greece, and along the way he had to keep them fed, watered, clothed, armed and sheltered by carrying tonnes and tonnes of provisions daily across seas and foreign lands. His generals did that. They did. 2,500 years ago. 800 years ago Marco Polo was bringing merchantise from China to Italy through hostile Mongol hordes, in uncharted territories, on roads that basically didn't exist. Us here? Feels like we can't send a burger and chips to the faraway table without it getting cold.

You made my day, I learned English later in life and sometimes still struggle with it. Much appreciated

Oh yeah sounds about right. The seller put mine on a pallet, wrapped it up like a baby, and she plastered a note literally everywhere saying WHEN RECEIVED CALL THIS NUMBER (My number). That was our agreement that I would pick it up from the depot when they call me. Which of course they didn't. The machine arrived at the depot and stayed there for 4 weeks, during which time the tracking number online was simply saying "In transit". And because it said that I was late to start making phone calls, and when I did they told me all the usual excuses first, and eventually (5th phone call) someone said "oh it's here at the depot come and get it". Now, finding the god damned depot was another story. First address they sent me to, a lady told me "oh it's a pallet, you got to go to the big packages depot" and she hands me a piece of paper with directions. And it wasn't bad enough that it was on those industrial areas in hell's armpit that barely have street names and numbers, but the depot didn't even have the actual courier's name anywhere, not on google and not on the building, because the depot might be owned by someone else, who leases it to FEDEX for example, and FEDEX might have agreements with other couriers to also operate out of that depot. So the paper she gave me said something like "drive to Block 15A in Bogansville behind MacDonalds, keep going south until you see XYZ bulding". And you go there and there's like 30 industrial buildings with trucks and forklits going in and out, that all look about the same and don't really have names or signs because everyone there knows which one is their building. Except me of course. So I had to go into literally all of them one by one and ask, and eventually I found the right building. Now to find the machine was also another story, because it was a giant building with pallets everywhere. First step was to talk to the guy at the office, to whom I gave the tracking number. And he took that 10 digit tracking number and somehow converted it to like 10,000 keystrokes on his computer, I don't know how or why but he typed a whole novel. Half way into authoring his masterpiece he stopped and asked me a few questions, then kept typing for a while, and he finally managed to narrow down the search area to one quadrant of the total depot, and then we started THE SEARCH. Except of course I wasn't actually allowed in there so I just stayed at the sidelines yelling things like "SHE SAID SHE WRAPPED IT IN BLACK PLASTIC, EITHER BLACK OR BLUE I CANT REMEMBER" and "DID YOU LOOK BEHIND THAT CONTAINER I CAN SEE SOMETHING, OH THAT'S A BICYCLE SORRY" On the upside when we finally found it, they had a true forklift artist who managed to squeeze it into my tiny van with half an inch to spare on each side and the top. Amazing to watch him work it was like the forks were extensions of his hands. The guy could probably clip his toenails with a forklift. Anyway that was the "machine pick up day" as I call it, I started my quest early in the morning and by the time I managed to take it out the car and into the shed all by myself and put it together the sun was already going down. Sounds like you're very close, you'll have a lot of fun soon. it's all worth it mate Edit: It is amazing to me that Logistics, an industry that has been around for literally thousands of years, is still in such a state.

Pork. About 60% pork belly and 40% shoulder.

The only time I take offense is when people make souvlaki with lamb, which is clearly a crime against humanity.

No sorry, when I say "you" it's just a figure of speech, I didn't mean you personally. And to be honest I don't really care if I sound sure of myself or not, I don't sell life success seminars. I'm just saying what I've seen, as I've seen it.

yeah a niche market might work but sometimes keeping it simple also works. Because you might be competing with thousands but sometimes your potential customers can be billions, I mean I never met anyone who doesn't want another belt.

No I don't think it's up to you. Of the (lets say) 10 things required to succeed in business you're lucky if you can control 4 or 5, and there's always a few on top that nobody can possibly even predict, like COVID, or a 2008 financial crisis, or skyrocketing fuel prices because of a war somewhere. But the main factor is luck, even if you don't realise it. There's stats about new businesses, it's a statistical fact that 2/3 of them fail. We just never hear about them because nobody wants to hear a story about a failed business, a success story sells a lot better. I did hear about them unfortunately because liquidating failed businesses was one of my first jobs out of Uni at an accounting firm.

I know... Can't say we have too many successful businessmen back home in Greece but almost all politicians are like that, you read their CV online and it always has some massive jumps that don't make sense. Like: "in 1992 he graduated from law school with honours and started his career as a trainee lawyer at a private law firm before accepting in 1995 the position of DIRECTOR OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS in the Ministry of Justice" Then you read further down and he's almost always the son of somebody connected.

That's why I get a little angry with all those motivational speakers and successful businessmen blindly advising everyone to quit their jobs and "follow their dreams / do what they love". Just because starting a business worked out for them, they don't realise what a meatgrinder it really is and how many people and families get destroyed every day in the process. I know they probably mean well and just want to get people motivated but more often than not it's the wrong advice to give. Irresponsible.

In other words, leather goods is a niche market these days. And it is a broadly misunderstood market with a bit of ignorance on the consumer's part (and somethimes our part as well). And that's ok, every market has its hurdles. In fact if you think about it, and despite everything you mentioned, the leather goods market has less hurdles than others and it's almost a friendly market by comparison. For example try to break into the car or phone market as a new manufacturer, it's practically impossible unless you're already some manufacturing giant. Try to make and sell your own cigarettes, or medicinal drugs, or white goods. Impossible. And so on and so forth, in fact if you look at commonly used items in a household there's actually very few that you can still make and sell with reasonable investment and without feeling that you have to fight the whole universe. Leather goods is one of them, so take the good with the bad and work with the advantages you do have, because there are a few: there's still a significant number of people out there who value quality over quantity, longevity over convenience, craft over mass production, and within reason they are willing to pay accordingly. They are not everywhere, but they exist, even if some of them don't know it and you have to explain it to them.

My previous boss was from Northern Sweden. At some point he announced he was going back home to visit his family for the summer holidays, and when he came back and we all asked him how was his summer. He said: "Not great". "Why? What happened?" "It fell on a Monday"

I guess your point is that hobbies come with a cost and I should just accept it? No, I don't have to. It's nothing for me to make something that people would pay money for. I'm just looking for the easiest way to align what I want to make with what people want to buy, without them annoying me too much. When people ask me "You know what I'd really like you to make for me?" the first response that usually comes to my mind is "I don't actually give a **** what you want me to make" I usually manage to keep it inside though.

Yeah now that you mention it I might be one of those men, even though I don't really wear suits anymore. But when I was at my local fabric store looking for bag linings, they had countless rolls, and I found that the only ones that looked durable enough and interesting enough were actually meant for suit linings. And I did find myself gravitating to some unusual colours and patterns

I think being unable to sell can be the most disappointing thing and can easily put someone off leatherworking for good. Most of us start as a hobby (and many stay hobbyists forever), but even as a hobby it can get expensive very quickly. Most of us try to at least recover our costs by making a few sales here and there, and maybe eventually explore the possibility of turning it into a main gig. But being unable to make those sales can get very disappointing and even prohibitive. It would be great to hear from the more experienced of you what strategies and decisions helped you overcome this hurdle, especially at the start. How did you make your first sales and how did it progress from there, what platforms or markets you joined, how did you structure a successful pricing, and anything else you want to share. For me it's still very early stages and it's been mainly word of mouth so far. I started by simply giving away stuff for free to good friends and family as gifts, other people in their circles saw that stuff, and they found me and enquired. And to be honest I mostly say no because I want to make what I want to make, not necessarily what they want, because at the end of the day I am still very much a hobbyist. I want to enjoy what I do, which means if I see something interesting on the internet I want to make THAT thing, not the thing that sells best. And if nobody wants it, I just put it on my wife's facebook (because I don't have one) and eventually it sells, although it might take months sometimes. But I still have my morning job so I can afford to go without sales for however long it takes without having to give heavy discounts. But that's just me. What about you?