ScottWolf

I think there are several ways you can approach this, all depend on what you want to do. The black ink stain is going to be the crux of it though. Unless you plan on dyeing the entire bag black, that stain may be your main issue. You can start with ISO alcohol to try and get it to liquify and blot it off. It's a time consuming and slow process. If the ink proves to be hard to remove, you can always go to harsher chemicals to get it off, such as "goof off" and similar product with acetone in them. It might get it all off, it might just lighten it up some and it very well may remove some of the brown color as well and require touch up. If you go this route, you always need to condition and feed the leather afterwards so it doesn't dry out and you put natural oils back in to the leather. What I would suggest is that you clean the bag good and then give it a good conditioning over several days to see what the leather does and how well it comes back to life and the color it takes on. This is of course ignoring the black ink stain altogether and chalking it up to a life scar. My guess is that this bag will take on a nice color and look once conditioned. From there, I'd say start with a saddle tan for the strap you want to add. It's always better to start lighter, as you can go darker but not vice versa when it comes to matching the bags color as close as possible. You may be able to do this by applying more saddle tan dye to the strap or moving to a darker color dye if the bag proves to be significantly darker after conditioning. Use a few pieces of scrap from the same leather you're making the strap with to do multiple color strips and dye colors to see what best resembles your bag before doing the strap. If you use Neatsfoot oil/Lexol, it will darken up a decent amount color wise. If you use EVOO or other all natural conditioners, it may not darken up as much after one application. In either case, allow it to sit for a day or two after conditioning as it will lighten up slightly and be a better indicator of its color.

This is not unusual, as you will find MSDS will vary from country/region to another, as the laws and requirements vary or change, that's why you will see some MSDS with nothing noted sometimes for one country/region and others with more information, such as % of the product used, etc. In this case, we are seeing a further defining/identifying of the ME esters and Tall fatty Oils that were mentioned in the version I posted.Despite the word "oil" being used often in these ingredients/ substances columns, what it really is, is an ester or a Saturated/unsaturated fatty acid, EG: Sulfated sperm oil, is actually a liquid wax and isn't obtained from rendered whale blubber as many assume. In this case, it's a synthetic version(chemicals) often used as a surfactant, dispersant and or emulsifier for the neatsfoot oil in the product ( or what ever oils are in the product). These component ingredients are also what gives products like these that creamy or thicker "feel" to them vice a pure/straight oil by itself. As mentioned, this newer document(s) goes so far as to include the word "neatsfoot" in the title and on top of every sheet of the MSDS, which in its self , makes the message they are trying to send pretty clear IMO. This is not unusual, as you will find MSDS will vary from country/region to another, as the laws and requirements vary or change, that's why you will see some MSDS with nothing noted sometimes for one country/region and others with more information, such as % of the product used, etc. In this case, we are seeing a further defining/identifying of the ME esters and Tall fatty Oils that were mentioned in the version I posted.Despite the word "oil" being used often in these ingredients/ substances columns, what it really is, is an ester or a Saturated/unsaturated fatty acid, EG: Sulfated sperm oil, is actually a liquid wax and isn't obtained from rendered whale blubber as many assume. In this case, it's a synthetic version(chemicals) often used as a surfactant, dispersant and or emulsifier for the neatsfoot oil in the product ( or what ever oils are in the product). These component ingredients are also what gives products like these that creamy or thicker "feel" to them vice a pure/straight oil by itself. As mentioned, this newer document(s) goes so far as to include the word "neatsfoot" in the title and on top of every sheet of the MSDS, which in its self , makes the message they are trying to send pretty clear IMO. This is not unusual, as you will find MSDS will vary from country/region to another, as the laws and requirements vary or change, that's why you will see some MSDS with nothing noted sometimes for one country/region and others with more information, such as % of the product used, etc. In this case, we are seeing a further defining/identifying of the ME esters and Tall fatty Oils that were mentioned in the version I posted.Despite the word "oil" being used often in these ingredients/ substances columns, what it really is, is an ester or a Saturated/unsaturated fatty acid, EG: Sulfated sperm oil, is actually a liquid wax and isn't obtained from rendered whale blubber as many assume. In this case, it's a synthetic version(chemicals) often used as a surfactant, dispersant and or emulsifier for the neatsfoot oil in the product ( or what ever oils are in the product). These component ingredients are also what gives products like these that creamy or thicker "feel" to them vice a pure/straight oil by itself. As mentioned, this newer document(s) goes so far as to include the word "neatsfoot" in the title and on top of every sheet of the MSDS, which in its self , makes the message they are trying to send pretty clear IMO.

Here it is in pdf. You can also go to the Lexol website and click on "safety data sheets" on the top right of the tool bar/screen. They have gone so far as to include the words "neatsfoot" in the documents titles Lexol conditioner MSDS.pdf

I am very familiar with the MSDS ingredients, If I wasn't, do your REALLY think I'd reference them and provide a link to the MSDS? Do you know what ME Esters or Tall oil fatty acids are? I do and if you took the time to look into what they are, you'd learn what they actually are and what part they play in making lexol what it is and it's given consistency. What's that saying about horses and leading them to water again? I'll ignore the ad hominem attacks in hopes that maybe, you'll be open minded enough to do a little research for yourself, as I am not trying to be confrontational or "win" on the internet. And who knows, maybe at some point I'll post exact recipes for making both leather conditioners and cleaners at home, using all natural ingredients.

If the neatsfoot oil is taken out of the Lexol conditioner, it is no longer a leather conditioner( per the MSDS of ingredients). If you take the raisins out of the raisin bran, it is no longer raisin bran. Again, the point is that both Lexol and NFO accomplish the same thing, much like making copies or Xeroxing a document, or like Kleenex and facial tissue. Call it what you want, but its the principal ingredient and the end state(results) is the same.

I think you're being pedantic here. Lexol IS neatsfoot oil. That is the principal leather treatment in the product, per the MSDS. At the end of the day, that is what is useful to the leather. The whole point of mentioning this is that if used in moderation, if one has a bottle of neatsfoot oil vice Lexol, that its accomplishing the same thing. Not to mention that an entire bottle of neatsfoot oil is comparatively less cost wise than a bottle of Lexol, as one is getting more actual neatsfoot oil at the end of the day. People will recommend to "use NFO or Lexol" often when commenting, as if they were two distinctly different products, when in fact, they are actually the same product(NFO); it is a redundant statement.

I can tell you from experience, that black shoe polish isn't what you want to use if its pigmentation you are trying to add. You can use black shoe CREAM (not polish) as mentioned above for minor pigmentation additions. Using shoe polish to try and darken that wallet will leave you with a wallet that bleeds black stains on everything it touches. There is actually a recent thread where the person used black shoe polish on a purse to try and even the color out and is having this very issue. if you attempt to re0dye it, you will need to use a soap cleaner on it and scrub it to remove any product that would prevent the dye from penetrating. Otherwise it will just continue to pool and sit on top as you've already experienced.

NO, not in my experience. The end product may look yellowish, but that color isn't transferred to the leather.

Organic T1 grade carnauba wax is a pale yellow. The color is immaterial to its performance. I use this exact product in a leather conditioner I make. I add small amounts of it to the beeswax and other ingredients in the conditioner in order to make it hard. https://www.amazon.com/Carnauba-Wax-Flakes-Organic-Leather/dp/B07CLCGJPM/ref=pd_ybh_a_137?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=AM0XMZ9P52DSPWTSV65B

Organic T1 grade carnauba wax is a pale yellow. The color is immaterial to its performance. I use this exact product in a leather conditioner I make. I add small amounts of it to the beeswax and other ingredients in the conditioner in order to make it hard.

FYI/PSA, as I see it mentioned in a lot of discussions in the forum, Lexol leather conditioner IS neatsfoot oil per the MSDS ( 70-80% water and additives, 5-10% neatsfoot oil) https://www.mws-d.com/images/PDF/2307286.pdf

Per the MSDS, Lexol conditioner is 5-10% Neatsfoot oil and approx 80% water(and other additives). While there is nothing wrong with using lexol/NFO, the idea after dying is to add back any of the fats/oils that the dying depleted. All natural ingredient conditioner will put those back, where as NFO simply makes the leather soft again, but is actually an oxidizer. Any of the many conditioners out there with natural ingredients like beeswax and natural plant oils (VOO, Castor , Coconut, Almond, etc) will better condition and balance the leather's pH after a dying. Lexol MSDS Sheet: https://www.mws-d.com/images/PDF/2307286.pdf

Question about the item. Did you wipe/buff the item you dyed down once it was dry, to remove the excess dye, before applying the sealer?

^^^^^THIS^^^^^^ ^^^^^THIS^^^^ times 1000

If your intent is to soften it, you need to look at 100% anhydrous Lanolin or NFO ( not compound). Be careful not to use too much NFO, you don't want to saturate the leather with it. Coconut oil is a conditioner and will darken leather more than other natural oils. Vaseline is a petroleum product or in simple terms, mineral oil. I don't advise using vaseline/mineral oil. Its tackiness will also attract dirt and clog the leather up. The last product from what I could tell is a Dubbin, which to me , means its a waterproofer type product used on boots/outdoor type of equipment using animal tallows. Good for waterproofing boots and jackets, not so great for softening leather. Beeswax is usually used with other ingredients, like coconut oil, sweet almond oil, etc, and is a conditioner as well as a protectant/mild waterproofer/sealer. By itself, it's not going to make your leather softer.

sure, go ahead.

All the "lotions" I have encountered are in a creamy liquid state and conditioners are in either a semi solid(shoe polish tin) or straight liquid state(neatsfoot oil). As far as ingredients go, they all tend to have some of the same things known for conditioning leather. The lotions tend to use a combo of water and chemical mixtures to keep the conditioner(s) suspended in a fluid state if you look at the material safety data sheets for them. Most of the "lotions" are usually for items like car and furniture upholstery and even some clothing. The creamy liquid state makes the application easy and it doesn't run like a liquid would when applied to those type of items. Here is the kicker though. Having looked at a lot of MSDS, it has become apparent to me that Any conditioner that is in a lotion or a semi liquid state ( squeezed out of a bottle) is more water/suspension chemicals/preservatives than actual conditioner percentage wise. Typically as much as 50% or more is anything but a known leather conditioner. In some cases, several known conditioners are used, but they typically fall into the 5-10% range each in the combined mixture. This can sometimes also apply to semi solid conditioners, which is why the MSDS is so useful an item to look at if you want to know how much actual conditioner you are getting. With semi solids, this also falls into simple science, as mixture ratios of oils to non oils will determine if the end product is solid like shoe polish or soft like a body butter/balm. With liquids/creams, all they need to do is suspend the ingredients in their liquid form and don't have to worry about how solid they are, which is why 50% or more is that suspension liquid.

Well damn. I accidentally hit a button combo that double posted my long and unfinished reply. Then I somehow deleted both of them trying to correct the double post. Will try and repost it later.

accidental double post

Lanolin won't over soften leather when used in moderation, just like any of the many other ingredients used on/in leather conditioners. I use it in my conditioner without any issues without over softening of the leather. Its ratio in the mix is not a lot and doesn't need to be as high as the others. The carnauba is only used if you want to harden your product to a shoe polish like hardness or harder. The amount of carnauba needed in hardening or firming up a mixture that has a lot of oils in it is very small. If you decide to use it, I suggest you start off with very small ratios of it, as a little goes a very long way in getting a hard/firm product. If you used more carnauba then was needed in a product, I am sure that you might see some of the effects you mentioned. However used in the small amounts needed just to harden/firm a product up I can't see it having any negative effects on the leather in any way.In fact, it should be smallest ratio item in the mix, with the lanolin coming in just ahead of it. eg: .5, .25 If your product doesn't need firming/hardening up, I wouldn't add it. I use all organic 100% pure items. beeswax, coco butter, sweet almond oil, anhydrous lanolin, castor oil and carnauba for a hard version. For a soft balm/body butter version, I omit the carnauba.

I make an all natural leather conditioner that has several of the same ingredients. You mentioned that your product darkens the leather a lot. The Coconut oil is part of the cause for that, it's inevitable as long as it's used. Reducing the ratio of coconut oil a good deal may help. An alternative is to use 100% organic almond oil or even castor oil, in its place. Since this is a leather conditioning ingredient, all you need is an ingredient that does this, but doesn't darken the leather like coconut oil does. Coconut oil does have the lowest iodine value of all the natural oils but if its partly the cause of your product darkening the leather, I'd try replacing it with another oil I mentioned and see if that helps any. My guess is it may have a small effect since the birch tar is the other ingredient that is probably causing the darkening. Your goal is a water repellent/proofer so the addition of 100% organic anhydrous Lanolin would probably help in your formula, if it isn't already part of your antioxidants and vitamin E/tocopherol concoction of ingredients. Since the Birch tar is the heavy lifter in your formula, getting it in a clear or yellow state, if not too difficult or costly, will probably help eliminate the darkening without loosing the qualities you are using it for. I don't know what type of consistency you want the end product in, but if you want it harder than a balm/body butter, try adding a very small amount of carnauba wax, and it will harden it up a lot more than the beeswax alone will. With beeswax a 1:2 ratio, with 1 being beeswax and the 2 your oils, will result in a hard/firm and sticky and poor slip, final product. If you increase the second number after 2, it will continue to get softer and not sticky in the final form. This is where the dash of carnauba can help you out, as its only job is to harden the final product up if you find your oil ratio is 3 or higher.

I can tell you that 50/50 diluted Oxblood will give you a magenta looking color by itself. Multiple coats of straight oxblood will get darker with each application. I just put a second coat of Oxblood on an item about 20 mins ago because one coat wasn't dark enough. You *might achieve that faded look your customer wants by applying second, third, etc coats to only certain parts of the item that you want darker, while leaving the intended faded/lighter areas with just one coat or even a diluted coat, just a suggestion. The best way I think you can achieve what you are trying to do, if I understand what you are trying to do correctly, will involve using 2-3 separate dyes, using this technique, in series as shown/demonstrated in this video here. Hope this helps.

Yes, I have seen some of those. However they all use the parallel thread to run the X through as part of pulling the 2 pieces of leather together, towards one another. The stitch above does not. What I have concluded, is that the pictured stitch is a typical saddle stitch done in one direction and instead of terminating it at the end, it is doubled back on itself using the Cross stitch in the opposite direction. So it is a combination of both a saddle and a cross stitch all in one run. Not sure if there is a name for this stitch or not. My guess is no at this point.

Tom, thanks for the reply. That's exactly what I have concluded. To me, it appears they ran a saddle stitch in one direction, got to the end and instead of terminating it, came back the opposite direction with a cross stitch. I am wondering if there is a name for this particular type of stitch when the two types are paired up or is there no name for it?

Kydex is your best non leather option. It is what all knife makers use these days, both custom makers and commercially sold. For a time, it was common to see sheaths made of Cordura with a HDPE type plastic insert in the body of the sheath to prevent the blade from cutting the sheath, but those have also gone to the wayside. Suggest you go to bladeforumsDOTcom or any of the other knife forums to get an idea what is being done with kydex if you are unfamiliar with its application. As an aside, we haven't used canvas in the military since post Vietnam for individual's equipment ( TA-50).