ScottWolf

Again, see my recipe post on how to make leather conditioner, it has ratios of each product and how to modify it if you want a more solid product, a balm or a cream. As for the "stuffing" you mentioned, I am assuming you are referring to hot stuffing,? This is done at the tannery during the tanning process, you are wanting to make a leather conditioner to be applied to finished leather if I understand you correctly. Hot Stuffing is defined by Horween as: Hot Stuffed: Hot stuffing is the traditional second step in the re-tanning process for leathers that are not fat liquored or wet stuffed. Unrefined fats and oils, that are solid at room temperature, are utilized to deeply nourish and condition the fibers of the hide. The fats and oils are pounded into the skins via tumbling in heated barrels, without the use of water and emulsifiers. The use of these fats and oils gives the leather a much richer feel. Hot stuffed leathers typically exhibit pull-up, good water resistance and excellent durability over time." Here is the link because someone will undoubtedly want to refute this https://www.horween.com/glossary You are on the right track with using beeswax, Lanolin and Tallow(beef). I make that exact recipe using the tallow from South Chicago packing and it works great for conditioning a piece of leather. You can also get this same product from Colorado leather balm if you want to try it out before you make it yourself. You can find it on Amazon. I think this is a good trifecta of ingredients to condition leather to be used to make sandals.

I believe only you can answer this question. In my leather conditioner recipe thread I started with using certain products/ingredients and avoiding others. That was my baseline starting point for seeing which ingredients and the combos of them that worked. As you read through the thread, you will see I later used some of the ingredients I initially avoided to further refine and or prove/disprove the effectiveness of their use in a leather conditioning product(meaning a concoction of several ingredients like beeswax, oils,etc, not the ingredient by itself). Each combo of ingredients has its own performance characteristics on the type of leather it is used on that can be observed. Certain ingredients are known to darken leather significantly, others to a lesser extent. If you want to darken the leather, then using those ingredients would suit your use case and visa versa if you don't want to darken the leather. Through experimenting with different ingredients, you will answer your own question. Or, you can go out and buy and try all the different commercial products until you find one you like, which is what most people do. Lastly, if you know of a commercial product that works for you, you can always search for the MSDS for that product and get the breakdown of ingredients used and recreate it yourself, minus the parts you don't want to use and or increase the amount of an ingredient you want to use more of. "Welcome to the internet, someone will be along shortly to disagree with you." is a phrase that holds true, no matter the subject matter. When it comes to leather work, it's no different, especially when some old guy in 1892 wrote down in a book that he used ingredient X ,because that's all they had at the time, so now it's considered gospel that cannot be questioned or a more suitable modern ingredient used in its place. One can slather just about anything on leather, but the old saying "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" should be kept in mind, even in this day and age.

Some information that may be of interest on this product, seeing how it also applies to the topic of this thread. As with a good deal of commercially available leather conditioning products that people use/swear by, it has mineral oil in it. However, its not used for its solvent properties, as it is in some products. In this one, it is actually 12-16% Mineral Oil with 45% of the product being water and the remaining percentages of ingredients as listed below.It's also worth noting that this product has a strong chemical smell to it, similar to what Simply Green smells like. But the real eye opener ingredient is the Ethylene Glycol (anti freeze). It's pretty safe to say that if one is making their own leather conditioners with tallows, beeswax, Lanolin, oils, etc, that it's going to have higher percentages of actual conditioning ingredients than most commercially available products that aren't sold as all natural. The MSDS for it can be found here. https://www.springfieldleather.com/sds-sheets/Blackrock Conditioner/Blackrock.pdf SECTION 2 - Composition/Information on Ingredients Ingredients (Specific) % CAS# Carnauba Wax 6.96 8015-86-9 Mineral Oil 12.8-16 64741-44-2 Ethylene Glycol 11.6 107-21-1 Fatty Acids 6.4-9.6 68604-75-1 Water 45.38 7732-18-5 Hydrogentated tallow alkyl 4.06 68201-30-9 Butoxyethanol 2- 2.24-3.2 111-76-2 Propanol 2 1.6-3.2 67-63-0 Poly(oxy-1,2-ethanediyl) <1 34398-01-1

I am simply trying to share information based on my experience researching ingredients used in the making of leather conditioner(s), making them, and using many variations of it on a very regular basis. Do with it what you will.

Why would someone pour mineral oil directly onto a piece of leather? In what instance would anyone pour mineral oil directly onto. a piece of leather they were working on? Is that how it's used in making anything of leather by pouring MO directly on the item? The answer is no in all three instances. It's simply not used that way nor did I presume that anyone would think that is how it was being discussed in it being used when discussing absorption. MO is typically used in products containing other ingredients, such as beeswax, lanolin, tallow, etc.. As deboardp just mentioned above about SUPs comments, MO doesn't persist long on a piece of leather after application. I think we are more in agreement than you think on MO from a common sense use standpoint. As for a source, I will allow you to do your own research, as at this point, even if I cited sources, I think you'd want to argue against them. So don't take my word for it, research it yourself if you're open to information.

You don't have to believe me, but you can do some simple research and you'll find that as far as absorption and the forming of a barrier when using mineral oil isn't my opinion. If you want to disagree with the science, by all means you do you. Do I use it in my DIY recipe and on my leather products? Yes I do, as I stated, as a finishing product, not purely as a conditioning ingredient, as it really isnt a great ingredient when compared to all the other ingredients one can use for conditioning. I see I've touched a trigger point, not my intent. I don't care which side of the fence one sits on when it comes to the thinking about mineral oil being natural or not. I just know that some people "do" and some "do not". But at the end of the day, there are quite a few commercially available leather conditioning products out there that have some amount/ratio of mineral oil in them that most people are oblivious to.

Here is the deal with Mineral oil for use on leather or human skin for that matter. Yes, it is a petroleum product. Yes it comes from the ground and some consider it "natural" but its not used that way. What we use is a refined version. The level of refinment depends on if its Vaseline or mineral oil (called paraffin wax in some countries), so if you want to still considered it "natural", then you do you. Whether it's used on leather or on human skin (cosmetics) mineral oil is not fully absorbed into the leather/skin. What it does do is form a barrier on the surface of the leather/skin, that is good at keeping moisture in the leather/skin and preventing anything else from being absorbed. So from a leather conditioning standpoint, it's not a great conditioning ingredient, as it never really penetrates into the leather like other ingredients. What it is good for on leather items, is as a finishing product. Meaning you've made the item, conditioned it and it's all done, ready for use. But before it goes out the door, you give it a once over with a product that has mineral oil in it. What mineral oil is great for on leather is it gives it a nice shine and a "finished" look to the piece. Which is why you will often find it in some commercial conditioning products along with better leather conditioning ingredients.

The ones in the picture(s) posted by Chuck.

Petrolatum IS mineral oil and those recipes are specifically for waterproofing, not conditioning leather.

Read the entire thread, you will see that I address the use of Tallow and other ingredients that I avoided in my first post. At this point, I can say I've used every ingredient thats been documented and used in making leather conditioners thats still available. The only only ones I can say I don't use or recommend using, after my extensive testing of them, is Vegetable oil and Lard (pig). Tallow (beef) works fabulously when you use the Wagu Beef Tallow from South Chicago packing that I mention in my recipe thread. My experience with both vegetable oil and lard(pig) was underwhelming (it under performed) and I actually did have a concern with both turning, as they began to smell strongly after awhile.

The link is in my previous post, at the bottom of the post.You should see a picture, click on it.

I posted an actual leather conditioner recipe in the forum for conditioners. It has since been pinned to the top and it covers just about all the ingredients one can use in a conditioner and suggested ratios for the various ingredients along with pictures of finished products. It should help you in adjusting your ingredients so that you get the desired end product. Link:

THIS^^^^^^^^^ you can get HDPE sheets from places like Graingers in some very large sheets and various thicknesses. It's going to last a long time, longer than anything mentioned in the thread so far and at a reasonable price point.

Perhaps something like a thin piece of rawhide sewn in between very thin leather or canvas sections could provide the rigidity you are looking for.

If anyone wants to make their own, the recipe I posted for a DIY leather conditioner in the forum here will work with the addition of the Pine Rosin. Beeswax and pine rosin is also used for Food cloth wraps, so exact recipes should be easy to find on the web. Pine rosin can be bought off of Amazon. You'll have to crush it if you get the rock version prior to melting it and mixing with the beeswax or you can buy pre made blocks sold as cloth food wrap kits. Also, beeswax and pine rosin sticks are used extensively in Baseball and are tacky but doesnt discolor anything. It's often referred to as "bat wax". You just need to make sure its bat wax, as they also sell sticks that are close to pure pine tar and they will discolor thread, etc

Might I also suggest that you pin my leather conditioner post recipe to the top as well? As it is the only thread that actually has step by step instructions on how to make your own leather conditioner in the sub forum.

So, I would direct you to my post in the forum here that I made about an actual leather conditioner recipe and the subsequent posts in that thread that have been made since I first posted it. CONTEXT. That is something that seems to be glossed over in threads like these in leather forums. Some people only deal in absolutes and refuse to acknowledge any differing information or they simply parrot things they have heard /read about. For example.... " I don't use "X" ingredient because my sisters brother cousin said it goes rancid and Larry the Legendary Leather maker guy said the same thing" OK, lets look at this critically and put it into context, because that where an ingredient like mineral oil falls into. First off the term "rancid" is actually referring to an ingredient oxidizing and not necessarily going bad like meat or milk or any other food item turning rancid. While some ingredients can actually do just that, and this is where the context comes in, those ingredients are usually not used solely by themselves on leather, they are used in combination with other ingredients that actually retard and or prevent said ingredient from oxidizing. Natural preservatives like beeswax, Vitamin E, etc are all ingredients used in A LOT of commercially available products along with ingredients like Mineral oil, if one takes the time to read product MSDS's. Neatsfoot oil (NFO) is actually a good example to use. Used in excess and by itself, can and will oxidize and form into hard crystals that sit and abraid in between the leather fibers and cause it to degrade over time. Not opinion, scientific fact. However, used in moderation and or combined with other ingredients, those negatives are negated and the item will likely wear out before those negative effects occur or are ever seen. Neatsfoot compound is something I've not seen recommended in leather forums for some time, as it's typically made for use on machinery as it does have a higher concentration of petroleum ingredients and other undeclared ingredients in it that can be harmful to threads, etc. To further put things into perspective, LEXOL is a popular product used by some but it is simply Neatsfoot oil if you look at the MSDS. The interesting part is that it is 80% water, 5-10% NFO and the remaining ingredients are preservatives/stabilizers that keep an oil and water from separating from one another. So in reality, very little NFO is actually being applied to a piece of leather when products like Lexol or other NFO based products are being used. The same holds true for products that have mineral oil or a petroleum based ingredient in its mixture. As I stated in my initial post, mineral oil forms a barrier and isn't actually absorbed into the leather like an actual conditioner ingredient would be. So it's a really poor leather conditioner compared to other ingredients commonly used in commercial products like Tallow, coconut oil,avocado oil, almond oil, etc. However, it is useful in sealing in moisture and oils that those other ingredients are known for and adding a shine. This, combined with those natural or man made preservatives and used in moderation in the ratio of ingredients is why you find a good deal of commercial products have a mineral oil/petroleum based ingredient in them (not all obviously). Like many things, if used in moderation and not strictly by itself, but with other ingredients/preservatives, mineral oil as one of several ingredients in a product is not going to prove detrimental to the life of the leather itself.

As to mineral oil or Parafin wax, Liquid Parrafin or any of the other names used for it in other locations, its all the same, a petroleum derived product. Mineral oil itself is not a leather conditioner like Tallow or neatsfoot, etc, it is a barrier, in that it keeps moisture in, which is why its used extensively in women's skin care products, cosmetics, etc. It can be used as a solvent in a product, as it dissolves other ingredients and is also considered a cleaning agent as it will break down sebum and cosmetic residue on peoples skin. For leather, its great for sealing moisture in and works best as a finishing product, after the leather has been conditioned, and it also adds a polish or shine to the leather.

I have a buddy who made one out of several layers of old newspapers, folded up into a square shape and fully covered it in duct tape. I'd guesstimate it's about 1"-2" thick and 12" x 12". He uses it for everything from chisels to a dremel to make holes. Once it gets ratty, he adds more duct tape or he rebuilds it. Not a typical solution, but one that works for him at least.

No Problem, glad you found the information to be helpful. As to mineral oil or Parafin wax, Liquid Parrafin or any of the other names used for it in other locations, its all the same, a petroleum derived product. Mineral oil itself is not a leather conditioner like Tallow or neatsfoot, etc, it is a barrier, in that it keeps moisture in, which is why its used extensively in women's skin care products, cosmetics, etc. It can be used as a solvent in a product, as it dissolves other ingredients and is also considered a cleaning agent as it will break down sebum and cosmetic residue on peoples skin. For leather, its great for sealing moisture in and works best as a finishing product, after the leather has been conditioned, and it also adds a polish or shine to the leather.

You can do that and it's a good way to avoid using too much lanolin in one sitting and helps in its application as pure lanolin is a gooey blob and doesnt spread as well as when its in a beeswax medium. It will also have a definite sheep smell/odor to it. The beeswax will help eliminate/reduce most of that smell. Everything eventually oxidizes. However, mixing substances together, such as beeswax and or adding vitamin E into the mix, specifically reduces/retards oxidation to the point that there isn't a need to worry about it.

Glad to hear it's working out for you. The whole reason I make it is for baseball gloves, as I got tired of the other commercially available "baseball glove" conditioners out there not really doing much for the leather and costing a premium for a few ozs.

Tallow does wonders for bringing things back. Are you talking about something like dog bone rawhide hard and wanting to make it soft/pliable? Take a look at Colorado Leather balm if you don't want to make it yourself.

The flesh side of leather will readily soak up anything you get on that side quicker than compared to the grain side. Which is why you want to be careful when dyeing, ask me how I know. The ingredient in Vaseline that some find to be useful is mineral oil. The other ingredients in vaseline really are of no use for leather, but vaseline is cheap and you can get it in big tubs. The mineral oil in it can bring color back out of leather that has lightened up/faded and give leather a nice sheen, which is why it can be used as a "finishing" product more than a conditioning product. It's like using Armor all on your tires. They look shiny and new but it really doesnt do anything else useful for the tire. Some popular commercial leather conditioners use mineral oil in their product for this reason, it brings color back and makes things shiny. Lanolin: if you're using the good stuff, its yellowish goo, it's pricey and has a strong sheep odor. Works great and restoring and softening leather but it takes several applications and if you use too much, you get that smell and some tackiness until the leather can fully absorb it. For what you are doing, its the better choice for accomplishing your goal.

I've used both methods and each will work. However, keep in mind that if you use the balm, you need to buff/rub the piece down quite well to remove any excess dye, otherwise, you will get some rub off. You can get away with not rubbing/buffing a piece down as much when using resolene as you are applying a acrylic "shell" over the piece, essentially sealing in any excess dye that you may have not buffed all the way off.