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@thekid77 if embossed leather is what you are looking for, The Leather Guy has some good ones as well. They have some good deals too. But this is leather which is embossed, not faux leather.

@Annemiek222 You need to leave the iron in the vinegar for a couple of days before it will dye well. I, at least, need to leave it in for a minimum of 3 days. That is when I get the best color. But others get it sooner. Either way, the iron needs to be in the vinegar for a sufficient amount of time. Did you wash the steel wool with a light soap solution first and rinse thoroughly? . I'm not sure if there is anything on them to keep them from rusting but that could prevent the vinegar getting to the actual iron and delay the forming of Vinegaroon. If not, just take them out again, clean well and put it back in. I have done it and everything was fine. Right now, I would suggest you let the leather dry and see what happens. I doubt you have damaged the leather. Leather is pretty hardy that way. Once all the dyeing is done, you can condition it to preserve it. I would just not put it into baking soda. An alkaline pH is not good for leather. People have been making Vinegaroon for hundreds of years. It is a simple procedure and some trial and error occasionally. Just relax about it. There is always a solution and if all else fails, there is always dye.

@Annemiek222 , ordinary household vinegar is 5% strength. It has a pH of 2.5; iron Acetate which forms when we add iron, the pH would be about 3. Once the leather is dyed, a rinse in plain water should be sufficient to rinse off the vinegaroon and bring up the pH to about 4.5-5 since, water has a neutral pH of around 7. A baking soda wash could raise the pH too much and end up actually making it basic instead of acidic and that could actually damage the leather more. Making Vinegaroon is a simple matter - old iron pieces in whatever form - old nails, steel wool, whatever - soaked in household vinegar over 2-3 days. I keep mine completely covered and never has it exploded - not sufficient gases to do so. Mine turns brown and sludgy but it does not affect the dyeing - I dip, rinse in running water and allow to dry. Works fine for me. If your leather turns grey it is either because your vinegaroon is depleted or, as @Gosut says, the leather needs more tannins. If the latter, a tea soak should work. Only thing is, after the treatment, the leather should be well rinsed in water to remove all of the liquids, else this can cause color transfer. Plain leather, without a tea dip will not transfer or leak black liquid because the tannins getting dyed are bound to the leather, but when we dip leathers in a tea solution and then the vinegaroon, the tannins in the tea liquid that are free on the leather and not actually absorbed, will also react with the vinegaroon, so you will have a wet piece of leather dripping a black dyed liquid. It needs to be rinsed off. If allowed to dry and the leather gets wet later, it can cause transfer. I have experienced this. So, a plain tap water rinse is sufficient. If the leather turns grey because the vinegaroon s depleted, and there are still pieces of iron in the solution, try adding more vinegar. Else try adding a few pieces of iron. It does take a few days. I have never had it be ready in less than a day but others have, so it might work for you. It is all a matter of trial and error. Rather like cooking. Like adding a bit of salt here or a smidgen of pepper there. It is a very simple reaction after all. Did you try to dye your leather pieces again after the vinegaroon was kept aside for 2-3 days? It will probably be of a greater strength by then and dye your leather better.

@Klara Damascus knives stay very sharp for longer too. I had heard that and when I came across one in a flea market, I bought it - a chef's knife (at least, I think it is) that I got for a song - I thought that it would probably be fake but it is not. I had it sharpened when I bought it and those characteristic, wavy lines stay all through; that does not happen with fakes. I use it for everything (other than leatherwork) and it is still as sharp as ever. I got it a while ago and by this time, most knives usually show some amount of dulling with household use where I always forget to strop it. That in itself I think, would be a good reason to buy a Damascus knife for leather cutting but I guess a Damascus round knife will be prohibitively expensive. However, most of the Damascus knives we see around are not made in the traditional way, it appears. I looked up the processes and many say they stack and weld different metals but not much folding and stretching is done during forging, so the characteristic pattern is not created. That is why many of them etch the pattern and mention this as well. The original way, makes those patterns naturally which is why they are irregular and such knife makers cannot guarantee a specific pattern. That stretching and folding makes the metal strong and flexible which will be useful in swords but not in chef's knives or even, indeed, round knives. But the multiple types of metal probably contributes to the hardness and enduring sharpness of the edges. So even adopting only part of the process, these knife makers probably provide good knives, for their specific uses, at a more reasonable price. Win-win all around, I should think. @DieselTechif you do get a damascus round knife from crosswindsforge.com, could you put it up here? Would love to know how it works out. I would love some input from people who make knives and are in the know about all these techniques. I might be wrong because the places I looked at might not give the correct information either. Maybe I should not hijack this thread and start a new one instead. I'm sorry @DieselTech.

Thank you for those kind words. Maybe I will start looking for something like that.

@chuck123wapati, I certainly did, didn't I? You overestimate my abilities though. I just started leatherwork a year ago and am a long way yet from having the expertise to restore furniture or make new ones. Restoring boots and jackets and other such items, yes I can do but furniture is a completely different ball game.

@Klara 'Hypothetical' is absolutely correct.! Essentially the bedspread is supposed to use up at least one of the hides that I bought in a moment of misplaced enthusiasm. Clean, complete hides for less than $20 each.. how could I walk past them? (it was the afternoon of the last day of an estate sale on a rainy week-end.. so not very many people visiting, ergo the price drop.) Now, I'm stuck with 3 of them, and while restoring leathers is something I love to do, after restoration, what? I have several similar restored items that I don't know what to do with. The hides, I don't want to just keep them aside and forget about them. So, having just come from a frenzied few months of gift making, I thought I would do something with these hides. I will need a lining on the bedspread because the hide I am thinking of using has a large oil spot on the flesh side. Not visible on the grain side but I would like it covered. The more I think of it, the more labor intensive the whole thing seems. But if I don't decide on a deadline, I could complete it in a couple of years or so.

Yes. I have a pair of tongs that I keep only for my Vinegaroon to avoid that. It does not stain our fingers so sometimes we do not even notice we have it on our fingers. Is baking soda really needed after Vinegaroon? Leather needs an acidic pH of ~5 anyway and since the Vinegar we get is only 5% , it does not really drop the pH very much. A water rinse suffices, I should think. Water has a neutral pH of about 7, so it will bring up the pH of the vinegar treated leather from 2.5-3 to about 4.5-5, which is what leather pH should be. Raising the pH with baking soda might cause more damage than just rinsing the vinegar.

For brown, why not just oil it and leave it out for a while? Leather becomes so dark, there is no need for any dye. You don't even need direct sunlight for it.

@chuck123wapati yes I can imagine. But when it's cold enough to warrant using it, think the warmth will make the weight acceptable, I suppose.

@chuck123wapati Yes. I met a woman who said that too. I did not ask her much more about it though. I should have. Do you line those on the flesh side? is the flesh side soft enough to use as is? My issue right now is using those hides. A bedspread will use a whole one. I'm thinking that even if they don't become soft enough to drape softly, they can be a bit stiff - like comforters are, for example. Which should be fine, since I don't plan to use it as a blanket. Let's see. Still a lot of work to do on them.

I'm up past midnight, a rare thing these days. So thought of wishing everyone here. From both of us, A Very Happy New Year!

@bruce johnson you're right. I have no idea how drapey the hides will be. Still have a way to go with the conditioning and restoration. They are very soft but might not drape well. If they ae not very drapey, I will have to probably find a different use for them. Let's see. Meanwhile. I know hair-on hides are used as blankets and rugs. Do you use them as is? I mean, as one gets them from the leather store? How does one keep them clean?

Yes. It will be hot to use it as a blanket. I just plan to cover a bed with it. It is not cold enough where I stay to use leather blankets either. Else, it would have been nice to make a leather blanket with a soft fur lining. That is good idea, to check whether I want to keep the natural shape. After I have completed conditioning the leathers, i will have to check which best fits a bed and has the best shape. I thought the same - about lining with fabric - but stitching so much is daunting since I do only hand stitching and don't have a machine. I'm also wondering whether using some sort of snaps might work.it They can be attached in some sort of pattern all over the bedspread holding the lining to it all over instead of only along the edges. I could separate the fabric periodically to wash it. Of course, the edges of the leather will have to be finished anyway, whether I stitch the lining on or not. And fabric will need to be stitched too, since we do not get fabric of such large widths. That can be done with my domestic sewing machine. I read on Amazon about specific needles, purportedly for domestic sewing machines to sew canvas and leather. Let's see if those work. I'm not too confident but one can always try. I won't be surprised if they say '2-3 oz leather and no more' in fine print. @Handstitched thank you for your suggestions.

Has anyone made a leather bedspread? I would love some information on how to make one. I recently laid my hands on several old, large full grain hides - all dark brown. No mold or damage, just a little dry. I have cleaned them with dilute vinegar anyway, and saddle soap. Now being conditioned. I also plan to do the 'damp leather waxy conditioner rub-in' thing. Two of the three hides have large oil stains on the flesh side, as if they were used under a car. When I found them, they were being used as carpets at an estate sale but they are still in very good condition. No cuts or any other other damage. Tells me how strong and resilient leather is. I have, of course, cleaned them thoroughly. They are soft and between 3.5 to 5 oz thick. I think with a lining, it might be interesting to make a bedspread with one of them. But I am unsure about even where to start. I would appreciate any information and guidance.

@chuck123wapati Exactly! @ScottWolf as @chuck123wapati says, bring along your individual ingredients and you are welcome to join our experiment. Individual ingredients. like the rest of us are using though, since that is what we are testing. We are not testing conditioner mixes. That will take us off-track.

Thank you @fredk I will add that to my list of "oils I can use to darken leather instead of using dye"

@deboardp 'oil-tanned' is actually a misnomer. Oil-tanned leather is actually chrome-tanned leather that is, post-tanning and dyeing, stuffed with fish oils and other oils and fats in some process that makes it soft and rich and pretty water-resistant. It is lovely and a favourite type of leather for me. I just dumped some mineral oil on several pieces of oil-tanned leather - different sources - and they all absorb the oil perfectly well. The only leather that does not absorb any oil, mineral oil or any other, is the leather with plastics on top. They do not absorb anything, oils, waxes, whatever. About waxing damp leather, I should have realized that the fats applied and the water in the damp leather would form an emulsion from which the water could evaporate. I think I will try it. I have some old, clean sides which are rather dry. that would be perfect for this. @ScottWolf It is good to hear about people's experiences. We all have garnered information from hearing about other people's experiences over the decades as well as our own research (it is such a simple matter these days and I suspect most people do plenty of it) and of course, personal experiences. People here have decades of experience that they speak from, knowledge which is very valuable. A large number of people make their own leather conditioners as well, though they do not much talk about it. Each person has his/her own take on what is good and bad, and really, seeing how people from different parts of the world and even parts of a large country, have different opinions, sometimes conflicting, sometimes not, how can anyone really definitively say that what one says is right and everyone else not? Even research publications - anyone who has any research experience knows to look at every aspect very carefully before fully believing it. But having different opinions is not an attempt to offend and should not be taken as such.

Good, detailed report @fredk. I missed showing the backs of the leather pieces, which you have done. I should include that the next time. I love how dark the ones treated with cooking oil and NFO compound are. Like you said, good to use in place of dyeing. Which cooking oil did you use?

Very true @deboardp About applying wax oil mixtures to damp leather, how does that work?. The water resistant effect of the wax-oil mixture will work both ways is it not? It will prevent water being absorbed into the finished leather but will it not also prevent any water evaporating from damp leather?

Precisely why I like to use mineral oil. Oils from recently deceased animals and vegetation are meant for the life of that living object, which is a limited number of years. Mineral oil is a different matter. I want my leathers to last a long time, ergo use a product that has that life as well. Different ways of thinking, I guess.

@deboardpLOL believe me, we all have the bit about forgetting things. My husband refuses to allow me to keep things away 'safely'; it becomes 'safe' from ever being found again. So I get what you're saying. Good to hear your prayers were answered. That will give hope to many who need it and read your post. Thank you for talking about it. About Lanolin, I know unfortunately that many are allergic to it, my husband being one of them. But he seems to tolerate it well in my conditioner, which is simple. It just has Lanolin, Beeswax and mineral oil. If I want a wax it is more of the Lanolin and beeswax with a bit of carnauba wax added in for more shine, the rest being the oil. If I want a balm, more of the oil and less of the other ingredients. I usually keep changing the proportions depending on the season when I make it. So more solid ingredients in summer and vice versa in winter. The mineral oil restores color and brings a warm shine to the leather, which I like. In fact, a mix of beeswax and mineral oil can be used to bring back an shine and restore color after conditioning with other products, f desired. I still like it better than other oils. If I have a bad experience with it, I will change the oil that I use and post it here as well. The D-Limonene I get off Amazon. I add it last and I just add about 10-12 drops for a small batch of conditioner - about 250 ml liquified. I just add it, stirring, until I get a strength of smell that I like. Cod liver oil I plan to order - does it have to be Norwegian?

@deboardp Thank you for your service. I am sorry and deeply ashamed that you went through so much suffering. I admire you for coming out of it and making a life for yourself. Please do not call yourself a bumbling idiot. Life happens, and after all that you have gone through, I think, and many would agree, that you are a hero and an inspiration, not an idiot by any standard. I completely agree about people using the cheaper mineral oil to pad everything. It is organic as I have mentioned in your thread. but whether to use it or not is a personal matter. Just an FYI, I add some D-Limonene to my leather conditioner, which inhibits bacterial as well as fungal activity. Smells good too. In such small quantities, it does not harm the leather either. As you are making sandals, the fungicidal and bactericidal properties might be useful. You said you use tallow. Does tallow have a specific purpose? I do not use it or keep it at home. but would love to know. Also, you talk about stuffing leather with fats and waxes and lanolin. How is that done? Is it hot stuffing? Is there a different way of doing it?

@deboardp lanolin, beeswax and mineral oil provides everything - softening, water resistance and a warm shine with further protection. I don't use any other animal fat at home except lanolin, the fragrance of which I love, ergo, it ends up on my leathers. Mineral oils are obtained during the production of 'fossil fuels'; fossils are purely from organic material, so mineral oil is organic in origin.. Besides mineral oil has at least one carbon atom with sp3 hybridization which is the most basic requirement for any chemical to be labelled as 'organic'. Cod liver oil. I really want to use that, since it is said to give that characteristic fragrance of leather but how long does it take for the cod liver oil smell to dissipate? Could you let me know please? @chuck123wapati after you mentioned that book in a different thread, I got one for myself. It is so very interesting, the things people used to make. I can't wait to try some of those recipes, although I wonder if I can get some of those ingredients these days. Just love that book. Thank you for mentioning it. See, I wonder how leather can get hydrated with pure waxes and oils. Hydration requires water. We clean and dry leather completely before applying the conditioners, which are usually all fats and preservatives, so how can it get hydrated? About conditioning leather, I wonder whether the leather fibers do actually change in any way when a person rubs in waxes and oils into it. How hot can it really get, after all? Certainly not as hot as being out in the summer sun in Nevada, for example. So if the latter does not change the chemical structure, can rubbing in oils change it? I wonder if the conditioners rubbed in just spread through the leather, in between the fibers and cause good lubrication, and as the surface fibers get lubricated, the rubbing allows the oils and waxes to penetrate further and further into the leather? Waxes, being solid probably stay in place longer than plain oils which might leak out or get wiped off...I wonder if that is what happens. I know of a couple of conditioners which do not have much fats in them - no color change which, I have heard, always happens with fats applied to leathers. These conditioners do not condition much at all and soon dry out. I, in fact, use these conditioners only when I specifically do not want the color to change. The items need conditioning so frequently that I do not use them any more.

@chuck123wapati that's great. I will do that bending test too. Thank you. I'm always learning something new. @deboardp a good number of us here are older too. So I doubt I will live long enough to get the type of results that will truly help here though I do hope I can pass it on to continue. But if you like, you can do something without having to resort to microscopes and such detailed research. You could just get a few pieces of scrap and use whatever waxes or fats you have on hand and think would be suitable and see what happens, like we are doing with oils. You can use the same items as others have used - no reason why only one person has to test it. About leather conditioners, Have you tried making your own? You have so many years of experience and must have used different ones. You will be aware of what works and what does not work. That is how I ended up making my own. Reading the ingredients in most store-bought ones, I did not know most of them. So I read up and mixed my own and they are good enough for me - my blade wax is so protective that when I get out a stored knife and want to get it ready for use, it is a chore getting the wax off. But that tells me it is well protected as well. If a newbie like me can do that, I am sure a person with so much of experience can certainly do better. Do give it a try. if you discuss it here, there will be many who will give you suggestions and help you along if you need, as I'm sure you know. I know I would and I'm sure many others too would benefit from your experience. That how knowledge is passed on, isn't it? Coming to your question on why the experiments are centered on oils, the question started with my wondering why so many say mineral oil is bad for leather. Everyone always says it is bad, companies selling leather-care products the most. But there is no real evidence of this. The question then spread to other oils as well - people said olive oil stayed good for thousands of years - this was in sealed bottles - in open ones it would have long turned rancid and thick, but this is not realized. Same with other oils. So the idea of this experiment just slowly built up. It was always about oils. So we worked with oils. But waxes are a good idea and maybe I will test some waxes as well. It will just be a few additional pieces and give a lot of information. Thank you for that.