Dyeing to know what I'm doing wrong

[MtlBiker]

Yes, I'm dyeing to know what I'm doing wrong.  Using veg tan leather, I first dyed it using Eco-Flo Leather Dye.  (After having learned from experience that the veg tan shrinks when it's dyed or made wet.)  When it was dry, I cut out my pattern and then stitched the front and back pieces together.  Then I made it wet in order to form it around the item and that is when I got covered with the dye.  (Of course that Eco-Flo dye is water based.)

Should I have finished the leather with Satin Sheen (or something else) after dyeing it and before wet forming it?  I'd been afraid that if I applied some finishing coat I wouldn't be able to wet form the leather.  Would that have happened?  Would I still be able to wet form the leather after dyeing and finishing it?

(This is another Apple AirPro Pro case, following a YouTube tutorial by Totuia.  Unfinished... work in  progress drying...)

 

[Hardrada]

You could dip dye and wet mould at the same time.

And I'd be using spirits-based dye.

[MtlBiker]

  On 4/3/2022 at 9:11 PM, Hardrada said:

You could dip dye and wet mould at the same time.

And I'd be using spirits-based dye.

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Are you saying that I should cut out the pattern and sew it together before dyeing and wet molding it?  The last project (I learned from) I cut out my pattern first and then dyed it (this is before stitching) and the leather shrunk by a surprising amount.  Which is why I dyed it first this time.

A spirits based dye would avoid the problem of the dye running all over the place when I wet the leather to form it I guess.  Is there a brand you recommend?  I've been buying my dyes and other stuff from Tandy Leather and they have the Eco-Flo as well as Fiebings Pro, but for some reason shipping the Fiebings is a hassle.  I can't get any dyes locally, nor any leather working tools.

[Samalan]

I've made a lot of things. Wet mold then let it dry, then dye and let that dry, then wipe it real good with a cloth,  then three or four  light  finish coats,  this has never failed me, its all the drying time things must be very dry before the next step so if you have a lot of work you can set things aside while you work on something else.

And all I just said is just my opinion, because it works for me. Hope it helps you.

[MtlBiker]

  On 4/3/2022 at 11:00 PM, Samalan said:

I've made a lot of things. Wet mold then let it dry, then dye and let that dry, then wipe it real good with a cloth,  then three or four  light  finish coats,  this has never failed me, its all the drying time things must be very dry before the next step so if you have a lot of work you can set things aside while you work on something else.

And all I just said is just my opinion, because it works for me. Hope it helps you.

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I can see doing what you suggest when you've molding the pieces individually, prior to stitching them together.  And that's what I've done when possible.  But what if you need to wet mold after stitching?  Like the YouTube video I'm following (linked in my first post).  I'm not sure that would work because of the shrinkage factor.  Do you think it would work to cut the pattern, stitch it together and then wet mold it?  And only after all that dye it and do the surface finishing?

I am a newbie to working with leather and until I saw that video I linked to I didn't even know you could wet mold after the stitching.  Of course it also depends on what you're making and in many cases it wouldn't work.  I have some pre-dyed veg tan leather and I'm sure that would work well, but I didn't have the color I wanted so had to start with un-dyed veg tan and dye it myself.

[Hardrada]

  On 4/3/2022 at 9:35 PM, MtlBiker said:

Are you saying that I should cut out the pattern and sew it together before dyeing and wet molding it?  The last project (I learned from) I cut out my pattern first and then dyed it (this is before stitching) and the leather shrunk by a surprising amount.  Which is why I dyed it first this time.

A spirits based dye would avoid the problem of the dye running all over the place when I wet the leather to form it I guess.  Is there a brand you recommend?  I've been buying my dyes and other stuff from Tandy Leather and they have the Eco-Flo as well as Fiebings Pro, but for some reason shipping the Fiebings is a hassle.  I can't get any dyes locally, nor any leather working tools.

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[tsunkasapa]

I'm old school, and as such, I don't use ANY of the new water based ANYTHING. That being said, I have never had any of my parts 'shrink' from dying with spirit dyes. I understand that there are issues ordering these, but I think I'd put up with that rather than use a product that is giving unsatisfactory results. I'll save the water for making coffee and beer. 

[Dwight]

I cut out . . . usually oversized . . . wet mold as needed

Glue pieces together where needed . . . trim off excess  . . .  and sew

Give a light coat of neatsfoot oil on the hair side only

Dye and polish . . . polish . . .  polish . . . and did I mention polish

Add final finish

May not work for everyone . . . but it does for me

May God bless,

Dwight

[Bert03241]

I dye before I cut out then sew then wet mould. Works for me

[Samalan]

  On 4/3/2022 at 11:22 PM, MtlBiker said:

.  Do you think it would work to cut the pattern, stitch it together and then wet mold it?  And only after all that dye it and do the surface finishing?

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 Yes that's exactly what I'm saying to do. let it dry somewhat on the mold with air movement like a fan you don't need heat just the fan then remove the mold let it dry some more then revisit the mold once more make sure it's good don't wet again just put the mold in dry.

[Samalan]

Holster before dye on left after dye and finish on right.

[Samalan]

  On 4/3/2022 at 9:05 PM, MtlBiker said:

Yes, I'm dyeing to know what I'm doing wrong.  Using veg tan leather, I first dyed it using Eco-Flo Leather Dye.  (After having learned from experience that the veg tan shrinks when it's dyed or made wet.)  When it was dry, I cut out my pattern and then stitched the front and back pieces together.  Then I made it wet in order to form it around the item and that is when I got covered with the dye.  (Of course that Eco-Flo dye is water based.)

Should I have finished the leather with Satin Sheen (or something else) after dyeing it and before wet forming it?  I'd been afraid that if I applied some finishing coat I wouldn't be able to wet form the leather.  Would that have happened?  Would I still be able to wet form the leather after dyeing and finishing it?

(This is another Apple AirPro Pro case, following a YouTube tutorial by Totuia.  Unfinished... work in  progress drying...)

 

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Dyed after wet mold and did some toning around the edges on the belt and holster but not to dark I don't like the dark toning look.

[Samalan]

  On 4/3/2022 at 9:05 PM, MtlBiker said:

Yes, I'm dyeing to know what I'm doing wrong.  Using veg tan leather, I first dyed it using Eco-Flo Leather Dye.  (After having learned from experience that the veg tan shrinks when it's dyed or made wet.)  When it was dry, I cut out my pattern and then stitched the front and back pieces together.  Then I made it wet in order to form it around the item and that is when I got covered with the dye.  (Of course that Eco-Flo dye is water based.)

Should I have finished the leather with Satin Sheen (or something else) after dyeing it and before wet forming it?  I'd been afraid that if I applied some finishing coat I wouldn't be able to wet form the leather.  Would that have happened?  Would I still be able to wet form the leather after dyeing and finishing it?

(This is another Apple AirPro Pro case, following a YouTube tutorial by Totuia.  Unfinished... work in  progress drying...)

 

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Roon blackening and finishing after wet mold I realize it's not the only way to do things it just works for me sorry for all the pics just wanted to show you how it works hope it helps .

[MtlBiker]

  On 4/4/2022 at 1:50 AM, tsunkasapa said:

I'm old school, and as such, I don't use ANY of the new water based ANYTHING. That being said, I have never had any of my parts 'shrink' from dying with spirit dyes. I understand that there are issues ordering these, but I think I'd put up with that rather than use a product that is giving unsatisfactory results. I'll save the water for making coffee and beer. 

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I guess you're all right... it was the water-based dye which caused the problem.  But I'm surprised to hear spirit dyes haven't caused any shrinkage for you, I mean, the leather still gets wet, doesn't it?  And doesn't getting the leather wet cause it to shrink?  (One of my last projects had a pattern piece that was 7 3/8" long and after getting it wet with my dye, it shrunk to only 7" which is why I now dye a larger piece before cutting my pattern.)  The only thing using a spirit based dye would solve would be the running of color if after dyeing you make it wet to mold.  Or does that somehow help reduce or eliminate the shrinkage also?

  On 4/4/2022 at 7:29 AM, Bert03241 said:

I dye before I cut out then sew then wet mould. Works for me

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What dye are you using?  Not water-based?

[MtlBiker]

  On 4/4/2022 at 6:34 AM, Dwight said:

I cut out . . . usually oversized . . . wet mold as needed

Glue pieces together where needed . . . trim off excess  . . .  and sew

Give a light coat of neatsfoot oil on the hair side only

Dye and polish . . . polish . . .  polish . . . and did I mention polish

Add final finish

May not work for everyone . . . but it does for me

May God bless,

Dwight

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That's what I've been trying to do (with the few projects I've done so far) but this particular one has the gluing and sewing of the two parts before the wet moulding. 

I guess I'll try to get some spirit based dye to solve the color running problem.

[MtlBiker]

  On 4/4/2022 at 9:54 AM, Samalan said:

 Yes that's exactly what I'm saying to do. let it dry somewhat on the mold with air movement like a fan you don't need heat just the fan then remove the mold let it dry some more then revisit the mold once more make sure it's good don't wet again just put the mold in dry.

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Okay, next time I try this particular piece I'll save the dyeing and and surface finishing until the very end.  After cutting, gluing and stitching the pieces and wet moulding.  I'll also try to get some spirit-based dye.

[MtlBiker]

  On 4/4/2022 at 11:30 AM, Samalan said:

Roon blackening and finishing after wet mold I realize it's not the only way to do things it just works for me sorry for all the pics just wanted to show you how it works hope it helps .

 

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Don't apologize!  The photos show the terrific work you've done.  Thank you.  I don't think you answered what kind of dye you use... spirit based?

[Samalan]

  On 4/4/2022 at 12:56 PM, MtlBiker said:

Don't apologize!  The photos show the terrific work you've done.  Thank you.  I don't think you answered what kind of dye you use... spirit based?

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Yes spirit based dye with the exception of the black roon, that is steel wool and vinegar but still done after assembly .

[Samalan]

  On 4/4/2022 at 12:56 PM, MtlBiker said:

Don't apologize!  The photos show the terrific work you've done.  Thank you.  I don't think you answered what kind of dye you use... spirit based?

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Yes spirit based dye with the exception of the black roon, that is steel wool and vinegar but still done after assembly . last one I promise wet mold then dye this is dye not roon.

[MtlBiker]

Does anyone here know the difference between Fiebings "Leather Dye" and their "Pro Dye"?  The Tandy US site lists both and implies the Pro dye is newer and improved but the Canadian site only lists the regular Leather Dye.  The shipping of these products is a pain as there is a $15 surcharge on top of regular courier shipping charges.  And they say they can only ship Purolator and not Canada Post.

[fredk]

I can'

  On 4/4/2022 at 5:59 PM, MtlBiker said:

Does anyone here know the difference between Fiebings "Leather Dye" and their "Pro Dye"?  . . . 

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I can't answer you directly but istr that there was a long discussion about this some time ago. But I can't find it yet

Try here; 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by fredk

[Bert03241]

If I had to pay high shipping prices for dye I'd be making my own dyes. I've used wood stain on leather works great , shoe polish works , I mean who says you have to use a particular leather dye. I've used coffee grounds. I'm sure you can find cheap local alternatives to color leather.Food coloring and vinegar are inexpensive and easy to clean up, and food coloring won't stain your skin as badly as other dyes and it will set into leather just as well as professional dye.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Bert03241

[Samalan]

some people have even used sh_t it works don't think I would use it but the old p_ss on steel wool works to just two ideas .

[Hardrada]

  On 4/4/2022 at 5:59 PM, MtlBiker said:

Does anyone here know the difference between Fiebings "Leather Dye" and their "Pro Dye"?  The Tandy US site lists both and implies the Pro dye is newer and improved but the Canadian site only lists the regular Leather Dye.  The shipping of these products is a pain as there is a $15 surcharge on top of regular courier shipping charges.  And they say they can only ship Purolator and not Canada Post.

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Lonsdale Leather sells spirits-based dye. You don't have to stick with Fiebing's.

https://lonsdaleleather.com/collections/supplies/products/l-l-roma-colour-premium-leather-dye

[MtlBiker]

  On 4/4/2022 at 10:12 PM, Hardrada said:

Lonsdale Leather sells spirits-based dye. You don't have to stick with Fiebing's.

https://lonsdaleleather.com/collections/supplies/products/l-l-roma-colour-premium-leather-dye

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Thank you (again!).  I ordered some dyes from Lonsdale yesterday and they're coming in about a week or so (Canada Post).  Lonsdale's web site says to pour some dye into a dish and  then use it.  Is that what you do?  How about using a sponge with the dye directly from the bottle?  Do you dilute it at all, or does that depend on how strong a color you're looking for?  I also ordered some of their reducer.  Is that just denatured alcohol or something else?

Funny that Lonsdale is shipping the dye via Canada Post and Tandy said that only Purolator would take it, and with a surcharge at that.

If you were making an AirPod Pro case (as per the link I posted) would you dye first, then cut the pieces and stitch, or would you do the dyeing after it's stitched?  And if wet moulding after the stitching, how would you handle that?  My  concerns are shrinkage of the leather and also being able to wet mould after stitching.  I'm thinking of dyeing a larger piece first, then cutting and stitching and then wet moulding.  Does that sound good to you?

Thank you again!