Strong Belt Loop Attachment?

[Brokenolmarine]

• Report post
•  
•  

Posted 55 minutes ago

Looks like all the votes are for stitching the belt loop rather than using rivets.  I'll give that a try on the next pouch I make this weekend.  Thanks for all the comments.

  10 hours ago, Handstitched said:

Another option, when I make loops, I cut them the  same  as I would with a belt tip cutter, just makes them a bit neater. Mine are  either machine stitched or hand stitched top & bottom .

I'm not quite sure what you mean.  And when you wear the pouch, the belt loop doesn't even show. 

  9 hours ago, Brokenolmarine said:

I have box stitched all mine, but Glue them first with Contact Cement.  None have given up the ghost yet.  Not that I have made that many.  However, my daughter has worn one knife sheath for nearly three years, still going strong.

I also took a tip from a British leather worker whose holster and sheath videos I watched a lot of... after stitching the loop, I turn the leather over and put a thin layer of cement over the stitches inside the holster or sheath.  Won't be seen ever again, but protects the stitches from whatever slides over them, and protects what is sliding over them.

I'll try adding glue on my next pouch.  And for protecting the stitches on the inside, is it just a layer of contact cement you put on them?  I haven't stitched my belt loops yet but I'd imagine that proper stitches, hammered down afterwards would be pretty much recessed and not prone to getting damaged.

°°°°  I just use contact cement.  A light coat, levels itself as it dries.  It's a simple step, doesn't take much time, and for knives and guns, if nothing else, will waterproof the stitching.  But, the tip of the knife could dig in.

 

[chuck123wapati]

14 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

I've made a little belt pouch for my SECRID metal credit card holder.  I've made a couple of them actually, getting better and better at molding the leather, stitching, dyeing, etc.  They have a leather belt loop that I've used double cap rivets to hold in place, and I've hammered them down (especially on the inside) so that when I insert the SECRID it doesn't catch on the rivets.  I've been pretty pleased with what I've done, until....

I almost lost the whole pouch and SECRID with my credit cards!  I wear the pouch on my belt (duh) and it often snags on something in my workshop or even getting in and out of the car.  Today the top two rivets broke away so the belt loop was loose and just flapping.  Good thing I noticed as I might have lost my drivers license and credit cards.  So I'm looking for advice to make a stronger, better belt loop.

What's the best way to attach a leather belt loop to a pouch so that it's super secure?

I see three options:

1) Continue using the rivets as I've been doing and maybe not hammer them down quite as flat, and certainly pay more attention to avoid snagging it on something.

2) Stitch the top and bottom attachment of the belt loop (I'm getting better at stitching!).

3) Use both rivets AND stitching, which I see as being the most secure but the most effort/time to make.

What are your thoughts?

 

look at this picture , what do you see ? a row of stitches not 2mm from the bottom of the strap!!!  you should have sewn the bottom there, with maybe a second row and sewn the top and been done with it.

This isn't rocket science friend leather straps have been sewn on for thousands of years. any one of the suggestions will work they are from tried and true leather workers with years of experience.

rivets will work in leather for some things but not all things and that is determined by the direction of the load on the rivet. the load has to be on the shank not on the heads if that makes sense. such as two pieces lapped together on a belt pulling from each end as compared to your strap which has the load pulling out against the heads.

Using them as Fred and AL  suggests changes that load factor, the load is attempting to pull the strap then down through the slot not out against the head of the rivet.

[Spyros]

There is no way those rivets were installed properly and they just came off.  I've never seen a double cap rivet that wasn't stronger than the leather and I've had some crappy hollow ones in the past. Even those could only be removed with a drill, never mind the proper solid brass ones. 

Do you have the proper rivet setter and base?  Did you hammer or press it in straight or did the stem maybe bent sideways?  Was the stem the correct length for the thickness of the leather?

Edited May 27, 2022 by Spyros

[Spyros]

2 hours ago, fredk said:

a. I have various widths/lengths of 6mm thick flat steel bar. I clamp one of these to a work bench and slip the project over it. The bar is the anvil then I set the rivet, with or without a setter bar. You are doing the rivets the same way, just the strap comes through a slot from the inside [or goes into the inside]

Yeah I keep explaining to people that the most important tool for every craft is the surfaces.  Something straight, something to clamp and wedge things on, something to bang on that doesn't rock and doesn't damage your tools.  Bench and bench accessories, that's what makes the most difference.  I also have a collection of steel extrusions and anvils and various shapes and sizes, some permanently screwed on the bench right above the leg for maximum stability.  Its incredible what you can do with the tiniest anvil in the world.  Jeweller's anvils are great.  Those are usually good enough and cheap enough:

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Spyros

[fredk]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

I'll have to look this up in Al's book (I have 4 of them).

The Art of Making Leather Cases Volume 1 by Al Stohlman, pages 7 & 8

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

. . .  I'm hesitant because I don't really know how to cut neat slots in leather (haven't learned that yet). . . . 

Just a small selection of my slot punches;

Most useful, especially for the slot for a buckle tongue. If I need a slot longer than one of these I just move it over and hit it again. I've accumulated these over the years. Buying a few now and then. Each cost between £2 and £5 through ebay. But, they are worth their investment. [ I think I need to sharpen some of them, they've been neglected,  ]

 

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

. . .  So the idea is to cut two slots into the back of the pouch and then feed the belt loop strip into the slots... then which way do you place the part of the loop that's inside?  Do you leave them both in line with the loop or do you bend them back towards the middle?  . . . 

. . . 

With the pouch you were talking about, where the rivets would fail often, I guess you had used rivets only, without any stitching?

A picture; one of the strap loops on my 'EDC' pouch that I made over 20 years ago

Remember, that's over 20 years of irregular use. It got more use this last 2 1/2 years, carrying spare masks, rubber gloves et cetera. It was used a lot from 2000 to 2016 though

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

. . .  Putting the ends of the loop inside the pouch means there will be a ridge (from the loop) on the inside and when I slip my little metal SECRID in, it would probably bump up against the ridge making it harder to insert plus adding pressure on the end/edge of the loop. . . . 

I skive the edges of the strap but leave the area where the rivet will go thick. I also glue a very thin [ 0.5mm - 1oz, or less] leather over the whole back piece. In the case of my mobile [ cell ] phone holster this extra [ minimal ] thickness helps keep the phone in tightly

 

 

[tsunkasapa]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

I might even add a rivet. 

Properly done stitching is far stronger than rivets. As to the 'belt tipper', make the bottom of your loop strap shaped like a belt end, not square. It's mainly an aesthetics thing.

[MtlBiker]

52 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

look at this picture , what do you see ? a row of stitches not 2mm from the bottom of the strap!!!  you should have sewn the bottom there, with maybe a second row and sewn the top and been done with it.

This isn't rocket science friend leather straps have been sewn on for thousands of years. any one of the suggestions will work they are from tried and true leather workers with years of experience.

rivets will work in leather for some things but not all things and that is determined by the direction of the load on the rivet. the load has to be on the shank not on the heads if that makes sense. such as two pieces lapped together on a belt pulling from each end as compared to your strap which has the load pulling out against the heads.

Using them as Fred and AL  suggests changes that load factor, the load is attempting to pull the strap then down through the slot not out against the head of the rivet.

It's not rocket science?  Then why is some of this stuff so difficult for a beginner? 

I will certainly change to stitching instead of rivets for my next pouch, but won't be (yet) doing the slot thing.  With slots (especially the top one) I don't see how to prevent my metal SECRID card holder from snagging on the strap if it's inside the pouch.  What do you suggest to prevent that?  And after experimenting with different length and position of the loop, I'm actually going to move it higher up on the pouch (with the bottom attachment even further from the sewn pouch edge) because I found with the loop too long and/or too low on the pouch, the way it rides on my belt I don't like it.  I'm going to size it for my largest belt size and keep it at the height I feel gives it the best balance and position on my hip.  I'm not trying to make a pouch (yet) for sale or the masses, just a functional one for me with that SECRID holder.  And using the whole thing as a practice and learning experience.

But could you please clarify for me which direction the ends of the loop would go once inserted in slots.  My understanding is that they remain in the same direction as the loop itself and aren't bent back towards the middle.

Thank you (as always!) for your great help.

 

[MtlBiker]

48 minutes ago, Spyros said:

There is no way those rivets were installed properly and they just came off.  I've never seen a double cap rivet that wasn't stronger than the leather and I've had some crappy hollow ones in the past. Even those could only be removed with a drill, never mind the proper solid brass ones. 

Do you have the proper rivet setter and base?  Did you hammer or press it in straight or did the stem maybe bent sideways?  Was the stem the correct length for the thickness of the leather?

I'm sure you're right.  That's it's my fault the rivets failed.  I use a press from Kamsnaps and the proper dies for the size of rivet.  They probably failed because I had hammered the heads flat after setting them, because I didn't want my SECRID card holder to snag on the rivet when I put it into the pouch.  I probably flattened them too much and that weakened them.  I'm switching to sewing the loop on my next pouch.

Just in case someone doesn't know about the SECRID card holder, it's made of (probably) aluminum and is RFI shielded to protect the cards.  There's a little lever at the top which pops out the cards in a way that it's easy to remove any one you need.  But the bottom edge can easily snag on a rivet or any ridge when inserting it into a pouch.  I've been using it for many years now and really like it.  Just don't like it in my pants pocket.

 

[chuck123wapati]

10 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

It's not rocket science?  Then why is some of this stuff so difficult for a beginner? 

I will certainly change to stitching instead of rivets for my next pouch, but won't be (yet) doing the slot thing.  With slots (especially the top one) I don't see how to prevent my metal SECRID card holder from snagging on the strap if it's inside the pouch.  What do you suggest to prevent that?  And after experimenting with different length and position of the loop, I'm actually going to move it higher up on the pouch (with the bottom attachment even further from the sewn pouch edge) because I found with the loop too long and/or too low on the pouch, the way it rides on my belt I don't like it.  I'm going to size it for my largest belt size and keep it at the height I feel gives it the best balance and position on my hip.  I'm not trying to make a pouch (yet) for sale or the masses, just a functional one for me with that SECRID holder.  And using the whole thing as a practice and learning experience.

But could you please clarify for me which direction the ends of the loop would go once inserted in slots.  My understanding is that they remain in the same direction as the loop itself and aren't bent back towards the middle.

Thank you (as always!) for your great help.

 

i suggest sewing it, lose the rivets in this case.

your understanding is correct.

[MtlBiker]

36 minutes ago, fredk said:

The Art of Making Leather Cases Volume 1 by Al Stohlman, pages 7 & 8

Just a small selection of my slot punches;

Most useful, especially for the slot for a buckle tongue. If I need a slot longer than one of these I just move it over and hit it again. I've accumulated these over the years. Buying a few now and then. Each cost between £2 and £5 through ebay. But, they are worth their investment. [ I think I need to sharpen some of them, they've been neglected,  ]

 

A picture; one of the strap loops on my 'EDC' pouch that I made over 20 years ago

Remember, that's over 20 years of irregular use. It got more use this last 2 1/2 years, carrying spare masks, rubber gloves et cetera. It was used a lot from 2000 to 2016 though

I skive the edges of the strap but leave the area where the rivet will go thick. I also glue a very thin [ 0.5mm - 1oz, or less] leather over the whole back piece. In the case of my mobile [ cell ] phone holster this extra [ minimal ] thickness helps keep the phone in tightly

 

 

Fred, once again you've given me terrific help!  Thank you!  Now it's clear what you were talking about and I'll also check out Al's information.    So, in your case you used only a rivet and no stitching, right?

Oh no!  MORE stuff to buy!  (Slot punches.)