Sewing in the belt's "keeper" loop.

[Davm]

When I made my first belts I did what you see on commercially made belts, I folded back the buckle area and put the loop in position and then the loop "free floats" in place, held by a top to bottom line of stitching on both sides of the loop- which secured the folded over part of the buckle strap and also holds the loop in position.  I read "sewing Leather" by Al Stohlman and he claims this top to bottom stitching weakens the area and he stitching along the top and bottom edge.  I tried this twice and both times it is a battle to angle the needles though the loop and belt leather (front and folded over back).  Al used short or curved needles or hog bristles, etc.  I left "big loops" until I got through the area and then pulled each stitch tight- not the "professinal" way.

In any event, how do the rest of you stitch this area and do you use special needles?

[TomE]

I use a regular sewing awl and harness needles, per the method shown in this JH Leather video https://youtu.be/ZmgxmtkvISs which is essentially what Stohlman describes.  It is helpful to pre-awl the holes in the strap that will be covered by the loop before  inserting the loop end and sewing the second/final side of the loop.  That way, you can feel your way through existing holes in the correct location while piercing the end of the loop with your awl .   Also, Stohlman inserts the awl from the front side/loop side while deflecting the loop.  I prefer how it's done in the video, awling from the side opposite the loop and watching the point of the awl appear underneath the loop.  Gently withdraw the awl and insert a needle in its place to keep the holes aligned then pass the other needle through the hole while withdrawing the place holder needle then finishing the stitch as usual.  I aim for 3 stitches securing each end of the loop and adjust stitch length accordingly.  I am typically sewing 9 oz straps and splitting the loop stock to about 6-7 oz.  I also do a lap skive to help the buckle turn lay down nicely, without taking too much thickness around the crew hole to maintain strength.

[Dwight]

On jeans belts . . . the loop free floats between two chicago screws . . . the ends of it sewn together in a loop.

On a gun belt . . . I put the bottom end of the loop in place . . . and sew 3 or 4 stitch holes in front of the loop . . . thru the loop  and one hole past . . . but there is no thread in the machine . . . it is just punching holes.

I then thread the machine . . . sew the belt all the way around to the loop on the other side . . . stop the machine . . . pull out about 18 inches of thread from the spool and from the bobbin . . . then I basically saddle stitch the loop in . . . plus 4 or 5 stitches on the other side . . . 

Have never had one come apart on me yet . . . that I know of.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Davm]

Well, Probably going to do it as I have done.  If you don't sew the loop/keeper together before putting it in place, you can leave one end of the loop open and sew quickly along the belt edge. Then tuck the loop/keeper's other end in place and sew that.  I still leave loops between the stitches until I have all the thread in place- the loops let me twist and turn the needles through the holes, once that's done then I pull the loops up tight.  Looks okay but I admit it is sort of the "hobbyist" way.  A curved harness needle might work well.  I usually have four holes, so the first two are angled one direction and the last two the other way- if that makes sense.

This project of mine, it's a tapered end cartridge belt, for .357 magnum.  The wide section is only 2" and the ends 1 1/2" so not much taper. I started out with 2 1/2" for the wide part but the top and bottom seemed to curl so I cut it down.  Center bar, clipped corner buckle.  18 loops.  These loops I used the "same hole" in and out method. I had not yet tried it. I've done a couple of standard belts with sewn on buckle straps and sewn on tongues and the loops sewn. and two layers thick. I've done another rig, single layer thick where the loops snake in and out of holes at each end of the loop.  Right now I am likely the loop ends going out the same hole, a lot less work making the holes and very fast and simply. Time will tell.

The holster on this rig is a Mexican double loop.  Single layer.  It is all for a Model 65 Smith & Wesson with 4" heavy barrel. This particular gun is small and light, no underlug and no adjustable sights. The idea behind this rig was everything as small and light as possible- no heavy gun leather for a big hog leg, etc. Now the proof is in the use, so I'll see how it feels carrying it around while out in the woods, etc. Actually the lightest, easiest gun to carry in the woods is a Govert 45 ACP with a couple of magazine pouches but I am doing this rig because I am carving both holster and belt, my own pattern. The holster came out nice so the belt carving awaits.  Having fun.

[Tugadude]

I found this video from Nigel Armitage very helpful.  Like all of his videos.

 

[Davm]

Thanks- that's what I was talking about- sew in one end and then tuck in the other. The only difference is my keeper is 3/4" wide and so instead of pulling the loops up tight- I left them open so I could manipulate the needles through the holes. Then I pulled them tight.

QUESTION- I'm a "newbie" and I bought a fid thinking it was what you use to make holes. I have an awl but it is a scratch awl with a round tip.  What I need is what the guy is using in the video- that makes a diamond shaped hole.  What is the tool called and the size hole in the video- what size point is best?  Thanks.

[fredk]

When I used to sew on the loops,  

a. I only sewed the length of the fold-over, not the whole belt

b. I pre-punched the holes on the folded over part only

c. folded over the piece enclosing the loop ends and glued down

d. used an awl to make the sewing holes through the front part of the belt

e. when it came to the belt loop holes I carefully used a a curved blade awl. Usually I had only about 3 or 4 holes to make on each edge

r. when sewing I used a curved needle

g. I gave this up and only try to use buckle with built in keepers!

[Tugadude]

1 hour ago, Davm said:

Thanks- that's what I was talking about- sew in one end and then tuck in the other. The only difference is my keeper is 3/4" wide and so instead of pulling the loops up tight- I left them open so I could manipulate the needles through the holes. Then I pulled them tight.

QUESTION- I'm a "newbie" and I bought a fid thinking it was what you use to make holes. I have an awl but it is a scratch awl with a round tip.  What I need is what the guy is using in the video- that makes a diamond shaped hole.  What is the tool called and the size hole in the video- what size point is best?  Thanks.

What you want is a diamond blade awl.  The size of the blade depends on the type of work you do.  There is no "one size fits AWL", sorry, couldn't resists.  

This one is probably a good place to start.  After you get the hang of it and determine what size or sizes you need you can upgrade and invest in more quality hafts and blades.

https://www.springfieldleather.com/Stitching-Awl-Medium

[Handstitched]

The only time I sew the keepers in are on bridles, cheek straps etc. not on belts.Just a bit fiddly using harness needles. .  Apart from the heavy duty belts, all my belts have interchangeable buckles (w/ press studs)  . The keepers on the heavy belts , I don't sew those in. Any sewing or rivets I use ,  hold the keeper in place anyway. 

HS

[Davm]

Actually, a couple of rivets/chicago screws or snaps, dead center- hold the folded over portion together and secure the keeper.  I've already got this particular belt done but I don't see much of a negative on snaps, etc.