Old Singer machines suitable for leatherworking?

[Redbeeerd]

Hey all!

I'm a beginner and I'm not looking to spend much as I have a tendency to go overboard a bit when digging into new things... 

Initially I see myself doing belts, gun slings, shaving kits, maybe gloves, eventually a pair of boots (I have a fixation with making myself a pair of boots before I die)

Are there any particular old Singer machines that are suitable for leatherworking? Preferably not electric since that is an area I'm not comfortable in exploring. I live in Sweden and there are tons of Singers being sold for next to nothing (30-40 bucks) but I have no clue what to look for. Anyone have an idea or two?

 

EDIT: nevermind, electric are of interest as well

Edited December 30, 2022 by Redbeeerd

[Constabulary]

"Old Singers" can means everything and nothing . Singer made hundreds of different industrial and domestic machines and made dozens of leather sewing machines for different kind of leather work. I`m using vintage Singer sewing machines only (nothing else). So it depends on what kind of leather products you want to make and what Singer sewing machine models you are talking about. If you mean the small domestic machine with treadle base - well you may be able to sew some garment type leather with them with thin thread but sewing belts, boots, holsters or bridles is not possible.

Maybe this thread helps to narrow downs what type of machine could suit your needs

 

[Redbeeerd]

Thanks for that link, it gives me a lot of information I definitely need.

You're spot on with the problem I'm trying to solve: Singer has produced an insane amount of models and it is next to impossible for me to condense all the info on them down to something useful. I know a few have been mentioned like 111w155 and 31-150, but looking at Blocket (our Craigslist) I have counted at least 50 models the last two weeks alone.

I'll dig in and read som more but if someone has more advice if be happy!

[CowboyBob]

36 minutes ago, Redbeeerd said:

Thanks for that link, it gives me a lot of information I definitely need.

You're spot on with the problem I'm trying to solve: Singer has produced an insane amount of models and it is next to impossible for me to condense all the info on them down to something useful. I know a few have been mentioned like 111w155 and 31-150, but looking at Blocket (our Craigslist) I have counted at least 50 models the last two weeks alone.

I'll dig in and read som more but if someone has more advice if be happy!

The 111w155 will sew up to 20 oz.or 5/16" or 8mm thickness.With the walking foot,needle feed system it has it's great for even real thin wallets & etc.

Edited December 31, 2022 by CowboyBob

[Redbeeerd]

I will definitely look for one of those!

I have been offered a 29K(?) of some kind for 40 bucks. I've read it's not ideal but is it good enough to start out with?

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Redbeeerd said:

I have been offered a 29K(?) of some kind for 40 bucks. I've read it's not ideal but is it good enough to start out with?

The Singer 29 series are shoe and boot patchers. I use mine to sew embroidered patches onto vests and jackets. It is also good for getting into tight places like the sides of purses to sew on new strap tabs. In other words, this is a machine for repairing leather or patching leather goods. It is not for producing them, but can get you through until something better comes along.

The reason I don't recommend using a patcher as a production machine is because the small bobbin version has an absolutely tiny bobbin, with a quarter (1/4th) the capacity of a Singer 111. The large bobbin model has half the capacity of a Singer 111, or 211 walking foot machine. The drive is top only via teeth on the foot. The teeth will leave marks on the top of veg-tan leather. It can sew approximately 6mm to 7mm thickness. The stitches get very small at that thickness. The thread must be very thin to go any distance, so most patcher users run them with T70 in the bobbin for a small bobbin or T90 for the large bobbin models. This size thread is good for wallets and patches, or fixing loose seams in shoes or boots, but not so much for thick leather.

[Redbeeerd]

7 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The Singer 29 series are shoe and boot patchers. I use mine to sew embroidered patches onto vests and jackets. It is also good for getting into tight places like the sides of purses to sew on new strap tabs. In other words, this is a machine for repairing leather or patching leather goods. It is not for producing them, but can get you through until something better comes along.

The reason I don't recommend using a patcher as a production machine is because the small bobbin version has an absolutely tiny bobbin, with a quarter (1/4th) the capacity of a Singer 111. The large bobbin model has half the capacity of a Singer 111, or 211 walking foot machine. The drive is top only via teeth on the foot. The teeth will leave marks on the top of veg-tan leather. It can sew approximately 6mm to 7mm thickness. The stitches get very small at that thickness. The thread must be very thin to go any distance, so most patcher users run them with T70 in the bobbin for a small bobbin or T90 for the large bobbin models. This size thread is good for wallets and patches, or fixing loose seams in shoes or boots, but not so much for thick leather.

Perfect answer, thank you!

[Klara]

Is what is shown in the picture all that is being sold? Because I'd only buy a complete machine, with table/treadle. 

I'm not denying the usefulness of a sewing machine, but you do know that you don't need one for leather work, don't you? I'm asking because people often react with "you must have a powerful sewing machine" to my "I made it myself" and are rather surprised when I answer "oh no, it's sewn by hand".

 

[Constabulary]

To be honest - for 40 bucks I would buy this machine in a heartbeat. You do not need a treadle to run it. The short arm patchers are great for mounting on a board and hand crank them. It seems to be a 29K51 and the outer condition seems to be very good. Patchers are very versatile (I have the later 29K71) but as WIZ said they are not really machines for producing things. Anyway - great useful machines especially at that price. Just from the picture looks like the nuts for the tension units are missing (still available) and I´m not sure about the bobbin winder. The critical parts on this machine are the pinions in the gear box, they are special (fine teeth) and they are obsolete but considering the outer condition I would assume the pinions are still good cause the machine does not show much outer wear. If it was me I would buy it.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Constabulary

[kgg]

20 hours ago, Redbeeerd said:

I have been offered a 29K(?) of some kind for 40 bucks. I've read it's not ideal but is it good enough to start out with?

This maybe not the ideal machine to start out with but for $40 dollars I can't see how you could go wrong buying it. At some point you will find a need for a patcher. These are pretty versatile machines as they can be can be mounted to any flat table surface and hand cranked or mounted to a proper treadle base. Some of these machine were even driven with a domestic style motor mounted to the rear of the base.

kgg

[Redbeeerd]

5 hours ago, Klara said:

Is what is shown in the picture all that is being sold? Because I'd only buy a complete machine, with table/treadle. 

I'm not denying the usefulness of a sewing machine, but you do know that you don't need one for leather work, don't you? I'm asking because people often react with "you must have a powerful sewing machine" to my "I made it myself" and are rather surprised when I answer "oh no, it's sewn by hand".

 

Yes, I do know I don't need one. I'm practicing hand stitching every day but I can already see that some projects I want to do in the future will benefit from using a machine. The reason I'm asking now is that, since it seems people here don't know the value of some machines, I might find a great deal on a machine I can use for a long time. I just need to know what I'm looking for 

[Redbeeerd]

4 hours ago, Constabulary said:

To be honest - for 40 bucks I would buy this machine in a heartbeat. You do not need a treadle to run it. The short arm patchers are great for mounting on a board and hand crank them. It seems to be a 29K51 and the outer condition seems to be very good. Patchers are very versatile (I have the later 29K71) but as WIZ said they are not really machines for producing things. Anyway - great useful machines especially at that price. Just from the picture looks like the nuts for the tension units are missing (still available) and I´m not sure about the bobbin winder. The critical parts on this machine are the pinions in the gear box, they are special (fine teeth) and they are obsolete but considering the outer condition I would assume the pinions are still good cause the machine does not show much outer wear. If it was me I would buy it.

 

2 hours ago, kgg said:

This maybe not the ideal machine to start out with but for $40 dollars I can't see how you could go wrong buying it. At some point you will find a need for a patcher. These are pretty versatile machines as they can be can be mounted to any flat table surface and hand cranked or mounted to a proper treadle base. Some of these machine were even driven with a domestic style motor mounted to the rear of the base.

kgg

I'll grab it then, thanks for the advice!

[Redbeeerd]

It's a 29K51 by the way, great catch @Constabulary

[DonInReno]

Your post reminded me of what it was like making sense out of all the different kinds of machines - it’s not easy - there isn’t a better way to learn what’s what other than finding a machine and learning what that specific machine is good for, then repeating dozens of times until you get familiar with the most common ones.

The variety of makers and machines make it hard to generalize and there are exceptions to every rule, but this is how I tend to see the world of old cheap machines.

Patchers - they are just cool, if they have a use or not.

Everyone should have a 31-15, or similar fabric machine - these are often sold for well under $50 - trying to sew anything heavy will quickly remind you why it’s worth it to get a more expensive walking foot machine.

The flatbed upholstery walking foot machine such as the 111w155 is another that everyone should have - it’s ideal for heavy canvas, vinyl, and leather belt type projects.  With a bit a patience you’ll find one for under $200.

Everyone should have a big leather machine that sews thicker thread than 138 - it’s a huge relief to have the ability to effortlessly stitch something thick - even if you don’t need it often.   About once a year I see one sell for under $500.

At first, it’s not bad to get one basic industrial table (often free or nearly so) and adapt the various machines to it.   Better to have a crappy table and use money on a new motor.  $100 speed reducer and $200ish servo motor is well worth it.  Few inexperienced sewers enjoy using an older clutch motor - it’s human nature to try, but most find it frustrating.

The better you get at finding good deals, the more you’ll have to sell or give away - passing up a duplicate $10 to $20 31-15, or $150 walking foot is very hard to do, but soon you’ll have too many.  

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by DonInReno

[DonInReno]

Buy the way, if it turns out your new patcher has a fatal flaw and can’t be fixed, those big wide hand wheels can have a belt groove machined into them for use on other machines to help reduce the speed.  I just like the feel of them.

[Redbeeerd]

21 hours ago, DonInReno said:

Your post reminded me of what it was like making sense out of all the different kinds of machines - it’s not easy - there isn’t a better way to learn what’s what other than finding a machine and learning what that specific machine is good for, then repeating dozens of times until you get familiar with the most common ones.

The variety of makers and machines make it hard to generalize and there are exceptions to every rule, but this is how I tend to see the world of old cheap machines.

Patchers - they are just cool, if they have a use or not.

Everyone should have a 31-15, or similar fabric machine - these are often sold for well under $50 - trying to sew anything heavy will quickly remind you why it’s worth it to get a more expensive walking foot machine.

The flatbed upholstery walking foot machine such as the 111w155 is another that everyone should have - it’s ideal for heavy canvas, vinyl, and leather belt type projects.  With a bit a patience you’ll find one for under $200.

Everyone should have a big leather machine that sews thicker thread than 138 - it’s a huge relief to have the ability to effortlessly stitch something thick - even if you don’t need it often.   About once a year I see one sell for under $500.

At first, it’s not bad to get one basic industrial table (often free or nearly so) and adapt the various machines to it.   Better to have a crappy table and use money on a new motor.  $100 speed reducer and $200ish servo motor is well worth it.  Few inexperienced sewers enjoy using an older clutch motor - it’s human nature to try, but most find it frustrating.

The better you get at finding good deals, the more you’ll have to sell or give away - passing up a duplicate $10 to $20 31-15, or $150 walking foot is very hard to do, but soon you’ll have too many.  

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, DonInReno said:

Buy the way, if it turns out your new patcher has a fatal flaw and can’t be fixed, those big wide hand wheels can have a belt groove machined into them for use on other machines to help reduce the speed.  I just like the feel of them.

This should be stickies to be honest, it is exactly the kind of guidance I was looking for! I now have a few models to use as a starting point whether I buy those exact ones or I start using them as reference when I find machines I know nothing about. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to answer this post!

[DonInReno]

Oh good - I’m glad this is helpful.  I love looking for bargains and a lot of the information on ideal leather machines includes the latest greatest expensive machines.

To complicate things for you, also keep in mind that there are many variations of any given model and you might be happy with any of them.  

The ISMACS list is a good one to check on old Singer models you aren’t familiar with - not all models are in there, but hundreds are.  Not all descriptions are correct, but it’s a good starting place.

https://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/model-list/index.html

Also, google specific information (even if you know it’s on leatherworker), rather than use the Leatherworker search function.

95% of the leather machines you might be interested in will have a walking foot - when looking at photos that’s a quick way to tell if it’s worth digging into.

Of the walking foot machines you find some that have bottom feed and walking foot, some are needle feed only, and the most desirable ones usually have bottom feed and needle feed and walking foot (triple feed).

Some of the oldest walking foot models are obsolete and literally aren’t worth trying to fix because the parts just aren’t there - it’s tempting to buy one you don’t know anything about if the price is cheap, but a quick search will prevent getting something that can’t be fixed.

Since you’re interested in those that are both cheap and old, you’ll get good at cleaning and minor adjustments - the key is to not adjust anything until you know what the adjustment does.   Many adjustments aren’t intuitive and a lot of people new this sport mess up minor things until a good machine won’t make a single stitch.  Lol   Assume every machine you come across has been messed with by people who don’t know what they are doing - it’s just human nature I guess.

Have fun and let us know how your patcher turns out!

 

[Northmount]

@Redbeeerd if you haven't seen this article, it may be well worth your time to review it. 

 

 

[CowboyBob]

More info on the different 111w models.You'll find the 111W155 has the highest lift & longest stitch length.

Singer 111w Class Machine Brochure-1.PDF

Edited October 26, 2023 by CowboyBob

[Handstitched]

11 hours ago, CowboyBob said:

You'll find the 111W155 has the highest lift & longest stitch length.

Yup  Very similar to Seiko's STW machine. I use mine daily,  same age as me....almost 60 years old. 

Has never let me down in the over  10 years I've had it, ( touchwood) 

HS

[shelr1]

Redbeeerd, You may already know this, Handstitched mentioned Seiko machines. There are many Japanese machines (and Chinese clones) that are essentially copies of Singer models, in some cases the parts may even interchange. Many of us look for older used machines that are available at reasonable prices, since price is often the limiting factor for enthusiasts.