441 Clone - CLANG sound mystery.

[ShortyLV]

Howdy/Hello.

I've got a mystery that I am trying to figure out for my Sieck-branded 441 clone. There is a mysterious clang that has been around since I got the machine but I've always thought of it as part of the machine-spirit so to say.

Recently, after getting some new presser feet, I've been doing some work to adjust the machine and started to understand that other clones just don't have this type of issue.

I've attached a two videos. The one that is normal speed is with sound and you can hear the clang. The other video is a slow motion of the bottom bobbin mechanism. I have noticed it seems to pinch the thread between the moving parts - not sure if it is intended.

https://imgur.com/Cm3WFKn

https://imgur.com/LIIctAc

Thank you in advance. If I am missing some things, then I will update asap.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Wizcrafts
I got rid of the dark background on the links.

[DonInReno]

You might check out Uwe’s tutorial on adjusting the timing.

It looks to me the hook is late to the party and barely grabs the thread loop at the needle - being a little late is also not allowing the thread to slip off the hook soon enough as the top thread is pulled up causing that snapping noise.

[Quade]

Quote

It looks to me the hook is late to the party and barely grabs the thread loop at the needle

I was thinking the timing of the needle through the inner foot looked off too. Like it's late.  

[michaelcbarr]

@ShortyLV this looks very similar to a problem I am still seeing myself with my Cowboy (Hightex) 4500.

I still haven't got to the bottom of it so I'll be very interested to see if you solve it 

Mb

[ShortyLV]

Thanks for the ideas. I saw Uwe's video and I am putting it as a LAST resort as it is very technical (Not overly, but still requires a lot of disassembly and adjustment work.)

[ShortyLV]

So I did my timing (minor adjustment, nothing really big).

Issue is still there. I think I have mistaken the sound from bottom that mixes with the top as the sound existed without the bottom loop thread.

[dikman]

Does it happen when turning by hand? Sometimes turning slowly can help localise a problem to a specific area.

[Wizcrafts]

Maybe the manual will help you sort out the user adjustments.

If you haven't already done so, remove the top thread, then unscrew the faceplate so you can watch and listen to the various crank shafts in the head as the machine turns over. It might have a loose screw that is causing the issues you are troubleshooting. Check the screw holding on the feed dog.

The bobbin race cover needs some clearance for the springs over the screws to allow it to float a little. I back the screws off about 1/2 turn with thin thread (up to #138, and about 1 turn for #207 and #277 thread. It the screws are all the way in, the bobbin race can pinch the thread.

441 Engineers manual.pdf 441-timing-templates.pdf

[RockyAussie]

As Wiz said above there is a possibility that the feed dog could be loose or needs some sideways adjustment. This video I made although done for mounting the narrow needle plate set would hold true for the standard set as well -

 

[kgg]

13 hours ago, ShortyLV said:

I think I have mistaken the sound from bottom that mixes with the top as the sound existed without the bottom loop thread.

Just to add to the other suggestions. When I looked at your video's I did notice a shiner spot on the feed dog which may indicated it is rubbing somewhere as it moves inside the feed dog plate. I also suspect the presser feet may not seated all the way. I also would check for the feed dog for rubbing and the amount the feed dog rises above the feed dog plate.

kgg