Adler thread take-up arm question.

[Icho]

32 minutes ago, CowboyBob said:

This isn't an Adler but I pointed out the needlebar cam for you,should have 2-screws.

needlebar cam.pdf 777.89 kB · 1 download

I was looking at that on my machine and even came close to trying it out but I wasn't sure so I didn't touch it....yet. unless some other idea comes up I will go for it tonight. 

Just to verify,  at what point in the needle cycle should the take-up bar be at its highest point. From what I understand, needle and take-up leaver both max height at the same time. 

[CowboyBob]

Just to verify,  at what point in the needle cycle should the take-up bar be at its highest point. From what I understand, needle and take-up leaver both max height at the same time. 

It's fixed & the only way it could be off is if you have a loose screw in the needlebar cam causing it to vary,the one screw goes in a hole in the shaft.

But to answer your question when the takeup lever is all the way up the needlebar should be approx 6mm down from it's highest position .

[Icho]

47 minutes ago, CowboyBob said:

Just to verify,  at what point in the needle cycle should the take-up bar be at its highest point. From what I understand, needle and take-up leaver both max height at the same time. 

It's fixed & the only way it could be off is if you have a loose screw in the needlebar cam causing it to vary,the one screw goes in a hole in the shaft.

But to answer your question when the takeup lever is all the way up the needlebar should be approx 6mm down from it's highest position .

When I get home from work, I will stare at it for a bit and check anything I can think of. Maybe even take a video  and go from there. I hope I am just missing something simple. 

[Icho]

So I uploaded my first video to YouTube. Sorry it's pretty bad but hopefully it shows what's going on. You can hear the ping when the thread gets past the farthest point around the bobbin case. The take-up arm starts pulling hard just before it reaches that point. I am turning the wheel bu hand. 

 

https://youtu.be/Amp5oKp6TXU

Edited February 6, 2023 by Icho

[Uwe]

It would be super useful to actually see the position of your take-up lever in your video. I know it’s tricky and I didn’t exactly do it in my video either.

It looks to me like you need to advance hook timing. In general, the thread needs to be at the farthest point on its travel around the hook precisely when the take-up lever is at its lowest point. The take-up lever is the master here, the hook timing is the adjustable element.

Below is a video of the stitch cycle on my Juki LS-341, which is a very similar design. The 1:34 mark my the video is when the thread take-up lever needs to be at it’s lowest position (although I failed to point that out in the video.) This is the still frame at that 1:34 mark::

When the thread take-up lever is at its top-most position, the hook tip should be at the Noon position.

The needle itself has no easy-to-reference position when the thread take up lever is at the very top or bottom.  

The hook timing can be advanced and retarded over a surprisingly wide range and it will still pick up the loop and make a stitch. However, the precise hook timing where everything comes together in buttery smoothness has a much smaller range.

 

[Icho]

2 hours ago, Uwe said:

It would be super useful to actually see the position of your take-up lever in your video. I know it’s tricky and I didn’t exactly do it in my video either.

It looks to me like you need to advance hook timing. In general, the thread needs to be at the farthest point on its travel around the hook precisely when the take-up lever is at its lowest point. The take-up lever is the master here, the hook timing is the adjustable element.

Below is a video of the stitch cycle on my Juki LS-341, which is a very similar design. The 1:34 mark my the video is when the thread take-up lever needs to be at it’s lowest position (although I failed to point that out in the video.) This is the still frame at that 1:34 mark::

When the thread take-up lever is at its top-most position, the hook tip should be at the Noon position.

The needle itself has no easy-to-reference position when the thread take up lever is at the very top or bottom.  

The hook timing can be advanced and retarded over a surprisingly wide range and it will still pick up the loop and make a stitch. However, the precise hook timing where everything comes together in buttery smoothness has a much smaller range.

 

Thanks for the info and video. I was looking for a video like that. I saved it so I can keep going back to it. I will go thru your write up and try advancing the timing to see how it works out. Here is a pic showing the moment the take-up arm starts moving up. I changed to red thread so that it is easier to see. To me it seems like the arm starts moving just a bit too soon. I feel that the tension created at that point is what is causing the the thread to pop around the farthest point around the case.

Update

I advanced the timing to the point where the take-up lever lifts closer to the correct hook position and the hook does not catch the thread because it is too far aadvanced.im pretty sure that if there was a separate adjustment for the lever, it would have been an easy fix. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Icho
Update

[Michiel]

I would look for a service manual and follow al the steps to set it up in the right order (so not try only to solve one problem but go trough the manual step by step)

by doing that you will and up with a well adjusted machine working like it was when it left the factory 

https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/fileadmin/dag/Media/Downloads/269/S_269.pdf

[Icho]

4 hours ago, Michiel said:

I would look for a service manual and follow al the steps to set it up in the right order (so not try only to solve one problem but go trough the manual step by step)

by doing that you will and up with a well adjusted machine working like it was when it left the factory 

https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/fileadmin/dag/Media/Downloads/269/S_269.pdf

Been there done that. I used dial indicators and digital calipers among other precision tools. I'm actually a tool and die maker/designer so settingand measuringisthe easy. There is just no info on the take-up lever that i can see. 

[Uwe]

There is no separate adjustment for the take-up lever because the linkage to the main shaft is fixed and permanent. The movement of the take-up lever is fixed in relation to the movement of the needle bar, as is the case with most machines of this general class of machines. There is no mention of it in the service manual because there is nothing to adjust.

Can you please post some close-up pictures of precisely where the hook is when the needle is at the very bottom (BDC), and when the hook tip is directly next to the needle. You’ll have to remove the feed dog for this.

You will likely have to adjust the needle bar height when you advance the hook timing, to make sure the tip of the hook is in the sweet spot of the needle scarf when it needs to pick of the loop.

 

. 

[Icho]

17 minutes ago, Uwe said:

There is no separate adjustment for the take-up lever because the linkage to the main shaft is fixed and permanent. The movement of the take-up lever is fixed in relation to the movement of the needle bar, as is the case with most machines of this general class of machines. There is no mention of it in the service manual because there is nothing to adjust.

Can you please post some close-up pictures of precisely where the hook is when the needle is at the very bottom (BDC), and when the hook tip is directly next to the needle. You’ll have to remove the feed dog for this.

You will likely have to adjust the needle bar height when you advance the hook timing, to make sure the tip of the hook is in the sweet spot of the needle scarf when it needs to pick of the loop.

 

. 

I am at work so i won't be able to post any pics until later today but I did adjust the needle bar height after I advanced the timing. I also rechecked hook to needle clearance etc. Before I mention what I did next, here is a quick history on the machine. 

I bought it knowing it had timing issues and the price definitely reflected that. It needed a new gear set for the bobbin case which is crazy expensive but luckily I was able to get used along with a lot of other extras. I had lots of cleaning, oiling, replacing beat up screws, a couple stripped holes etc but I'm thru that. I have had most of the machine apart in the process. I am actually very comfortable getting into any part of it now. This is why I just went for it. 

So last night just before I ran out of time for the night I decided to move the tim belt a tooth...possibly 2. I then quickly re timed it and gave it a try. It is not perfect but definitely the best it's been. I am considering jumping 1 more tooth to see what happens. I couldn't do much more last night because it was getting late but thinking about it today, I am wondering if I should look more into the timing belt and checking if there are any marks on the gears that should be aligned. 

I will be back at it tonight and will add any relevant pictures.