Still Buffing

[Gosut]

Late last night, started buffing the Fiebing Pro Dye Dark Brown on a belt when it felt dry. Had enough rub-off that I left it overnight. Returned to it this morning, and after forty minutes still getting some rub-off. My understanding is that this sort of rub-off is from dye on the surface, so am trying to buff off before applying a conditioner. The leather is dry, but has a very fine "grabby" feel like a coating when I rub my fingers over the slick side. Given how little dye remained in the bottle, it's very possible I put too much on the leather and this is the result.

 

The big question is should I continue buffing until there's no rub-off before applying conditioner, or apply conditioner and then continue buffing?

[TomE]

After lots of buffing, I would apply a light coat of neatsfoot oil, let it soak in for several hours to overnight, and buff some more.  What weight leather are you working with and how did you apply the dye?

[Gosut]

It's 8/9 oz leather. I applied the dye with a disposable foam brush of the type used for wood stain and varnish. That foam turned out not to be as dense as I thought. It took three coats spaced several hours apart to get even coverage. Basically applied and left alone for a few hours, then repeated until it was even.

Have put on the neatsfoot oil, using the method I did with work boots: Folded over two or three shop towels into a small square, held it tightly against the bottle, turned the bottle up, then set right again, and wiped on what was on the towels. Have set it aside to soak in. A surprising amount came off on the shop towels, but resisted the urge to keep going over it with the oil.

This is for a work belt. Next time I'll use water buffalo leather and not worry about dyeing or finishing.

[Gosut]

Update:

About half an hour ago, noticed all the oil had soaked in, took it down, and buffed it. Had no rub-off. All I have to do now is to seal it with Resolene (tm), put in the buckle and snaps, and it's done..

[TomG]

Glad to hear that you have success.
I make lots of straps.. Belts, dog collars, etc.
I dip dye 99% of them. I have Rubbermaid, seal-able tubs for each of the main dyes that I use. I stir before use as the dyestuffs can settle.
Then, I drag the strap through it slowly (about 1" per second), and hang it to dry. I have a rack that hangs from my garage ceiling. I punch a small hole in the scrap end of the strap to hang it from, before dyeing.
Except for black, I have very little rub-off.
 

 

[Dwight]

To start with . . . you should never use Feibings dye straight 100% as it is in the bottle . . . always thin it down . . . most do a 50 / 50 dye and thinner.

Second . . . apply neatsfoot oil before you dye the project  . . .  and dip dying is far superior to brush or dauber or sponge or any other way.

Third . . . if you are using Resolene . . . give it a once over quick rub off . . . apply Resolene (also a 50 /50 mixture with water) . . . and go on with life.  Rub off will not come thru Resolene if it is applied right.

Basically you did a lot of work for nothing.

May God bless,

Dwight

[DwightT]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:31 PM, Dwight said:

To start with . . . you should never use Feibings dye straight 100% as it is in the bottle . . . always thin it down . . . most do a 50 / 50 dye and thinner.

Second . . . apply neatsfoot oil before you dye the project  . . .  and dip dying is far superior to brush or dauber or sponge or any other way.

Third . . . if you are using Resolene . . . give it a once over quick rub off . . . apply Resolene (also a 50 /50 mixture with water) . . . and go on with life.  Rub off will not come thru Resolene if it is applied right.

Basically you did a lot of work for nothing.

May God bless,

Dwight

Why the 50/50 dilution for the dye?  Not looking to start an argument, but I've seen others mention that and I can't remember seeing the reasoning behind it.  I typically use it straight from the bottle, but I'm using an artist's brush to apply it to a small area.  Is the 50/50 limitation only applicable when you are dying the entire piece?

And why the dilution for the Resolene?  Since that is a sealant, wouldn't you want it full strength for the best effect?

    /dwight

[Littlef]

33 minutes ago, DwightT said:

Why the 50/50 dilution for the dye?  Not looking to start an argument, but I've seen others mention that and I can't remember seeing the reasoning behind it.  I typically use it straight from the bottle, but I'm using an artist's brush to apply it to a small area.  Is the 50/50 limitation only applicable when you are dying the entire piece?

And why the dilution for the Resolene?  Since that is a sealant, wouldn't you want it full strength for the best effect?

    /dwight

I'm a newby, but from my experience in the handful of projects I've done, I found if I use full strength dye, it dyes the leather to a completely opaque color.  In addition, I had problems with dye rubbing off.  And it continued no matter how much I tried to buff it off.   - I started cutting my dye with alcohol, and I can now see the leather grain through the dye.  I can also repeat multiple coats and bring it darker if need be.... but you certainly can't lighten it once a heavy dye is applied.  

Resolene seems to work similarly.  I started using full strength, and it works, but I'd get splotches, and it was tough to get even coverage.  I started diluting it 50/50 - not measuring, just eyeballing it...  and it seems to me to absorb quicker, dry quicker, and dry more evenly.  I saw a benefit in diluting it.

[Doc Reaper]

For those that want to try this method be smart and use a baby food jar to store the mixture and clearly mark it 50/50 and what is cut with

[fredk]

2 hours ago, DwightT said:

Why the 50/50 dilution for the dye?  Not looking to start an argument, but I've seen others mention that and I can't remember seeing the reasoning behind it.  I typically use it straight from the bottle, but I'm using an artist's brush to apply it to a small area.  Is the 50/50 limitation only applicable when you are dying the entire piece?

And why the dilution for the Resolene?  Since that is a sealant, wouldn't you want it full strength for the best effect?

    /dwight

In my experience, the diluted dye soaks into the leather better, giving a better distribution of the dye thru the leather. If you take a brush full of dye most of it will be just where you first place the brush on the leather.  You sort-of get a 'hot spot' of concentrated colour. If the dye is diluted you'll still get the 'hot spot' but it is less strong as the diluted dye can get absorbed by the leather better. and spreads out more. Less dye required to even out the colour and get rid of those 'hot spots'.  Also dampening your leather before application of dye opens up the leather fibres and helps the dye distribute thru the leather

Same reason for resolene. My resolene is thick. Straight from the bottle it doesn't soak into the leather. It just coats the top surface.  Diluted it soaks into the leather better and gets down deeper into the leather sealing the dye that has gone deeper

hth

Edited March 10, 2023 by fredk

[TomE]

This video has some tips that were new to me for even dye coverage and eliminating rub off, particularly near the end of the video.  Best of all, he says there are no firm rules and many ways to get a good result.

 

[Dwight]

7 hours ago, DwightT said:

Why the 50/50 dilution for the dye?  Not looking to start an argument, but I've seen others mention that and I can't remember seeing the reasoning behind it.  I typically use it straight from the bottle, but I'm using an artist's brush to apply it to a small area.  Is the 50/50 limitation only applicable when you are dying the entire piece?

And why the dilution for the Resolene?  Since that is a sealant, wouldn't you want it full strength for the best effect?

    /dwight

Some 25 years ago when I started in this "hobby" . . .  I was given the advice to dilute both 50/50 . . . by men who have by now been in this for well over 50 years . . . or retired.

I tried both full strength . . . did not like the results with either.

Having said that . . . I dip dye gun holsters . .  .belts . . . cell phone cases . . . knife sheaths . . . rifle slings . . . rifle scabbards . . . and everything else I do.  Nothing is "brush" dyed . . . 

Everything will have at least one square foot or more of leather . . . and needs to be finished in an even looking manner.  

Having said that . . . I also add a coat of neatsfoot oil 24 hours before dying . . . and my dye jobs come out even from one end of a 3 inch wide . . . double layer . . . 56 inch western gun belt . . . all the way to the other end.  That cannot be done with a brush . . . piece of wool . . . dauber . . . or any other way . . . other than an air spray gun . . . which lays a couple thousandths of an inch of dye on the surface that is scratched thru the first time the item gets any hard use.

So in effect . . . I'm talking from hard won experience.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Gosut]

15 hours ago, fredk said:

Same reason for resolene. My resolene is thick. Straight from the bottle it doesn't soak into the leather. It just coats the top surface.  Diluted it soaks into the leather better and gets down deeper into the leather sealing the dye that has gone deeper

My single experience with Resolene (tm ) used a 50/50 mixture. The leather readily absorbed the 1st coat. 24 hours later, it absorbed the 2nd coat. Another 24 hours later, the 3rd coat didn't soak in as well. Took that as meaning the first two coats were doing their job. But yes, I was amazed at how well the finish went into the leather.

[DwightT]

Ok, getting better penetration with diluted dye makes sense.  As I mentioned I've done very few projects where I had to dye the whole thing.  Usually I'm just doing small areas like backgrounds or other individual tooled elements.  When I do those my brush will go from the bottle to a scrap piece of leather first for the initial discharge, then to the project.  I do that to control the bleed-over into the surrounding areas, so I was probably leaving the "hot-spot" that was mentioned on the scrap piece.  Diluting the dye won't mean that I won't have to do that intermediate step.  If anything I would expect that I could have more problems with bleed-over, but I still think diluting it would be good for the general better penetration.

As for Resolene, I haven't really used it much until just recently.  Up until now I've either being using the spray-on SaddleLac, or my old NeatLac.  Since I finally used up my NeatLac and everbody has been talking about Resolene, I thought I would give it a try.  The instructions on the bottle didn't really say anything directly about diluting, but it does say to apply with a damp sponge.  Regardless I'll start directly diluting it also.

A question with diluting the dye: if you are mixing two or more dyes, are you diluting the individual colors first and then mixing or do you mix first and then dilute the results?  Does it even matter?

    /dwight

[fredk]

21 minutes ago, DwightT said:

. . .

A question with diluting the dye: if you are mixing two or more dyes, are you diluting the individual colors first and then mixing or do you mix first and then dilute the results?  Does it even matter?

I don't think it really matters. But I think you have more control on the mixed colour if both dyes are thinned the same amount before mixing. I recently mixed some thinned red with thinned blue to get a cetain shade of reddish-purple. I think, had the dyes been unthinned I would have had a problem getting the shade I wanted