How much to charge for your leather goods?

[SUP]

Mine is a bit long too. Sorry, in advance, for the length and for being so passionate about it..

@tugadude, been in business,  set up a business for someone else, got it into the black within a year (my 75 year old CPA could hardly believe it) and then left - owner was a greedy, corrupt person and I refused to do anything even a little shady. So yes. Been there, done that, in the tech world, in the Bay area. Just don't talk about it. That is all. It does not define me as a person. 

 Yes, setting up a business is very difficult. Yes, there are clueless people in business. No idea why people starting businesses don't go to their local SBA chapters for some guidance. They are very helpful and informative. 

Anyway, all that you say is true but that still does not excuse substandard work. Whatever the hurdles in business and they seem endless sometimes, if I had not provided good service I would not have had loyal clients. It is similar in any business. In the leather business the only thing is, people might not buy as many leather items like, for example, clothes, and therefore there is less risk in selling goods that are not very well done. And clothes? People know quality. They go to a Walmart for inexpensive clothes, Macy's for a little better and the high end stores for expensive or maybe the consignment stores too. So people know clothes - good and bad. The same with footwear. Why not leather then?

So while I agree with  Chuck that companies can charge whatever they can get for their goods, why are the general public not being made aware of the great leatherwork being done? Why are companies producing substandard work almost hijacking the industry? We see  not very well made items being sold at exorbitant prices everywhere. People are willing to pay? good for them. But what happens to the leather industry and the good leather craftsmen and the beautiful work that they produce?

One other issue is that with not well made products selling for so much, people might be reluctant to even look at better produced items, believing them to be out of reach.  So these items are giving a false impression of that as well. 

It all comes down to informing the public.  I know I keep on about it - my hobbyhorse - but I really feel strongly about this when I see the beautiful work done by so many here and what I have had available through the years. I examine some of the leather I bought through the years and... they are okay. Not great. 

If we all cheer those who charge exorbitantly for not very good stuff, that is all that is finally going to remain. And future generations will look at old items made by an extinct generation of craftsmen and wonder at the talent. Okay that sounds morbid and is improbable..at least I hope so.

I know I am very new to this craft and will never be one of those who does stunning leatherwork. But I can appreciate it when I see it and I see so  much here, and there is so much more out there that I do not get to see.  I feel really sad about the cheap stuff getting so much exposure  when there are such talented craftsmen  who don't get that. Those who produce such gorgeous leatherwork are artists and should be valued, their art valued. Not allowed to get hidden under the flood of indifferent, mass produced items. 

Better stop now.

[GrampaJoel]

My original posting was to the poor quality of the wallets.

I know business. 36 years of it.

I know costs to operate. Managed a business of almost a $500,000.00 a week in sales.

 I don’t see clicker cut wallet pieces.  I see poorly hand cut card slots.

I see unfinished edges that don’t match. Edged, and  uneven and poorly burnished , if actually burnished.

I see poor sewing. Etc., etc.

I see poor quality hand made wallets bragging about being made in the USA, (As if that guaranteed the high quality of their products, )

that they are selling  for outrageous prices.

and I don’t understand it.

I just don’t get it. I doubt I ever will.

Joel

[Tugadude]

22 minutes ago, SUP said:

Anyway, all that you say is true but that still does not excuse substandard work.

There's never an excuse for substandard work.  I haven't bothered to look at all of the products on the website.  I will go back and look before rendering my own opinion.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Tugadude

[Tugadude]

Made in the USA, to me anyway, simply signifies that it was made domestically.  Doesn't necessarily mean it is of high quality or higher than any other country's production.  In fact, there are products coming our of China which are of very high quality for much less than you can buy so-so goods here.  I try not to buy them even if they are demonstrably better and certainly cheaper, because I don't support their regime.  

I own many American made knives.  I bought a Kershaw knife a few years ago and could have purchased 3 or 4 Chinese knives for the same money.  And they would have been arguably as good or better.  I did it because it had an American flag on the blade and was made in the northwest U.S., and that's what was important to me.  

I'm not arguing that some do believe American made has the connotation of being better than, or high quality, but to me it doesn't.  Sometimes it does.

I went back to the website we're all talking about and my reaction is "meh".  I don't think the wallets are anything special.  I think the pockets could benefit from either creases and/or an edger.  And the edges aren't up to snuff.  The stitching is a personal pet peeve of mine.  I don't care for some machine stitching, never have.  The look of the stitching on a few products I looked at left me cold.  

One thing I often wonder when I see discussions like this is does the average consumer even do their homework?  Do they take the time to peruse other maker's websites to compare quality and pricing?  I wonder.

[ToddW]

5 hours ago, SUP said:

Websites can be created and maintained without much expense. See, WordPress and AEM are two of several  Content Management Systems which people can use to build and maintain their own dynamic websites, including payment processing,   that takes away the need for IT departments or consultants to maintain content on a website. It is a simple process where one is guided every step of the way. It can all be set up at a very reasonable cost, less than $500.00, and the only thing to maintain is the license. And these websites can be viewed on any browser, any operating system, and on any screen size. In fact, many websites that we see online are built using WordPress. If you look at the bottom of the screen, that appears in small print.

This whole website thing is a lot like our discussions on quality of leather work.. As an old IT guy, anyone can put up a web page and use WIX, WordPress, etc..  The actual framework for web pages are common.. its the photography, video, copy/writing.. that make the difference whether something sells or not.  You can take a great product and take crappy pictures and people think you have a crappy product.  Photography is all about lighting and staging the product.  After that, you need to know about SEO so people can find you.. Very few people have all the skills to do that (photography, webpage, write copy, tell a story).. and understand how you actually create traffic to your website.  It is A LOT of work.. influencers, youtube, facebook Instagram, Tictok, etc.. that is a young mans sport..  I have spent a ton of money on product pictures and what I call "in the wild" picture of people with the bag.  Buyers don't spend anytime trying to figure it out..  I had a small tool bag that didn't sell at all that I thought was cool..  Once I started putting pictures of it holding 6 boxes of shot gun sells..another with a trailer hitch and ratchet straps, golf shoes in it, tools in it... it started to sell.. the website is your store and has to tell them what all you can do with the bag.. there is a black magic to it.. its hard and expensive..

[chuck123wapati]

18 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

One thing I often wonder when I see discussions like this is does the average consumer even do their homework?

 

lol yea they do but now the new way is to look at reviews which could or couldn't be accurate as we have all seen, or you can google any dozens of best whatever for 2023 sites written and driven by college types who do nothing but create blogs for products to attach links that pay their wages for working at home(sitting on their asses). Most are copy and pasted blurbs from the products own sites while the writer has absolutely no real life experience of the product. And you can do this for hours or until you puke without actually learning a damn thing about the product, finally giving up and just buying something usually because the shipping is free. I feel the internet  has been taken over by mega conglomerates that drive most searches right back to their products.

[ToddW]

1 hour ago, Tugadude said:

One thing I often wonder when I see discussions like this is does the average consumer even do their homework?  Do they take the time to peruse other maker's websites to compare quality and pricing?  I wonder.

its all about price and what they want..  if they want a nice product that is expensive.. they will shop around.. If they are looking for something cool and special, they will shop around.. if its something simple, they will just go to Amazon and buy it expecting to throw it away if its breaks.. Kinda like Harbor Freight and tools..  I have bought a many of $9 grinders on special expecting to through it away..  Crappy Chinese tool?? Yes.. did I buy it knowing its a crappy product?  Yes..  Could I have bought a Dewalt?? Yes..

People view of nice is also very wide.. as a Leather worker, you know what nice is.. the average consumer doesn't know top grain, full grain..  pot metal hardware, stainless hardware..  All they know is if it looks good to them.. 

[Tugadude]

3 minutes ago, ToddW said:

its all about price and what they want..  if they want a nice product that is expensive.. they will shop around.. If they are looking for something cool and special, they will shop around.. if its something simple, they will just go to Amazon and buy it expecting to throw it away if its breaks.. Kinda like Harbor Freight and tools..  I have bought a many of $9 grinders on special expecting to through it away..  Crappy Chinese tool?? Yes.. did I buy it knowing its a crappy product?  Yes..  Could I have bought a Dewalt?? Yes..

People view of nice is also very wide.. as a Leather worker, you know what nice is.. the average consumer doesn't know top grain, full grain..  pot metal hardware, stainless hardware..  All they know is if it looks good to them.. 

I could be wrong but I don't think the sort of folks that will pay $175.00 for a leather belt are shopping at Harbor Freight.  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I do think we need to be realistic. 

There's a fairly well-known leather wallet maker who apparently sells a lot of product and to me, the pricing is well above the value.  I'm not going to give any more details because it isn't important who it is, just that it is an example.  But, and there's always a but, he has cultivated a following of sorts, a customer base and he likely gets repeat business and word of mouth referrals.  His product is certainly unique.  I can imagine when you pull the wallet out, some will ask about it.  I would never criticize him for his pricing.  He makes a product, puts a price on it and then the consumer evaluates it and purchases it.  Both are happy.  Works for me.  

Now, if the person were to buy the product and find that it wasn't what they expected and/or they felt mislead or something, now we have a problem.  

That doesn't seem to be the case.

There always are and will always be companies that successfully sell a product for way more than makes sense.  Rolex is one, Hermes is another.  Not picking on them, they just came to mind.  

[Frodo]

it takes a total of apex 3 hours to make a belt

materals to make a belt

are 20 for the leather

10

for consumables

 

that $30

 if you bend over for the pressure and sell your belts for $40  you are accepting $3.33 an hour for your labor and zero for your overhead 

 

You will not be in business long

[TomE]

I am enjoying the collective wisdom and experiences of the commenters (commentators?) in this thread.  Lots of good insights.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.