New Class 441 Progress

[kgg]

I have been slowly putting together my new 441 Class sewing machine. Only a couple of minor things left to do. Install the presser foot lift pedal, figure out how much I need to cut out of the table under the cylinder arm without weakening the table top too much, redneck oil bath, and mount my under the table spool holder for the top and bobbin threads as I hate those spool holders that are typically supplied with all the industrial sewing machines.

i) I chose to use a standard industrial sewing machine table 22" x 48" with a 3/4" table top and modify it to suit my needs. That saved me about $200 CAD. The table top had the standard belt slot and the three servo mounting holes already cut out.

ii) I placed the sewing machine about 1mm to the left of the belt slot cut and set it back 26mm from the white table top edge (ko4.jpg).

iii) I cut the top long end off the third K-leg and mounted it backwards so it would fit in front of the motor (ko7.jpg) then placed it so it was slightly off center of the sewing machines mounting base. The motor is a 800 watt brushless servo motor and came with a needle positioner which I am not installing.

iv) I bolted all three K-legs so their top cross braces were inline with the frond edge (ko7.jpg) of the table top. This provides better weight distribution and strength to the table. The machine weight, about 50 kg (110 lbs), is more towards the front edge of the table and directly over the third K-leg.

v) I also bolted the third K-leg to the foot pedal bracket to add extra strength to the frame (ko6.jpg).

So far I am pleased with how the machine is turning out.

kgg

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by kgg

[dikman]

Looks like a very solid setup, which you really need for these machines.

[kgg]

13 minutes ago, dikman said:

Looks like a very solid setup, which you really need for these machines.

Thank you. I did try and tip it in all directions and it doesn't budge. Now if was Singer black, hum. Airbrush anyone?

kgg

[shoepatcher]

Most 441 machines are mounted on an off the arm stand be a H legs or Weaver stand.  I prefer that set up up.  You want to hang anything off the arm to sew, you will find problems in your current set up.  

glenn

[AlZilla]

14 minutes ago, shoepatcher said:

Most 441 machines are mounted on an off the arm stand be a H legs or Weaver stand. 

We're awaiting the cutout under the cylinder arm. I believe that's the plan.

[dikman]

Yes, I think kgg is trying to figure out just how much he can remove before it collapses.

[kgg]

2 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

Most 441 machines are mounted on an off the arm stand be a H legs or Weaver stand.  I prefer that set up up.  You want to hang anything off the arm to sew, you will find problems in your current set up.  

 

2 hours ago, AlZilla said:

We're awaiting the cutout under the cylinder arm. I believe that's the plan.

 

36 minutes ago, dikman said:

Yes, I think kgg is trying to figure out just how much he can remove before it collapses.

Yes, the plan is to make a cutout under the cylinder arm but I'm slow. I'll get to that part after I complete the "redneck" bathing process. The first bath, a mixture of synthetic oils, now is complete and the presser foot lift pedal has been installed. Once the synthetic oiling is finished and the machine is running properly the next step will to remove three of the four bolts from the base, remove the drive belt and swing the machine 180 degrees so I can do the cutout. I really don't want to remove the machine from the table, it's to hard on the old back.

kgg

 

[AlZilla]

5 minutes ago, kgg said:

I really don't want to remove the machine from the table, it's to hard on the old back.

Ha! I brought my 441 head into the house and up 15 narrow, steep steps to my upstairs sewing space. One - step - at - a - time.  I don't know how my heirs will get it back down ...

[Handstitched]

4 hours ago, AlZilla said:

I don't know how my heirs will get it back down ..

One of those stair lifts perhaps?  Look after your back, once its 'gone'...its gone. 

Thankfully I had my Father help me lift the head on the table at the time. 

HS

[RockyAussie]

Hi @kgg , I would suggest dropping out the left leg and try and get something closer to the 3rd pic down on this page.http://www.cowboysew.com/heavy-sewing-machine-stand.htm

In this video I did awhile back shows what I think is a good reason to consider it all be it a different machine the same problem exists

 

[CowboyBob]

5 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

I would suggest dropping out the left leg and try and get something closer to the 3rd pic down on this page

You have a good idea BUT he'll need something stronger like a 2x6 for a bottom brace to hold all the weight of the arm hanging out the leftside of the stand.

[kgg]

22 hours ago, AlZilla said:

One - step - at - a - time.  I don't know how my heirs will get it back down

Put it on toboggan and ride it down.

kgg

[dikman]

Yep, what Bob said. This is what I ended up with (was originally a "conventional" table), shifting the left leg in caused a problem because the weight of the overhang is significant. I had to reinforce the underside of the bottom piece that carries the pedals and fit a castor wheel at the end to stop it falling over. It's not as rigid as I would like but it works for my needs.

 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, dikman said:

It's not as rigid as I would like but it works for my needs.

As all as it works for your needs that's the main thing.

16 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

In this video I did awhile back shows what I think is a good reason to consider it all be it a different machine the same problem exists

I do appreciate the suggestion but my main consideration is the machine has to be topple proof because I have dogs and when they get rough housing I don't want them to be able to tip the machine from any direction. Odd need I know other wise I would have probably considered a pedestal style stand.

As an update:

i) The redneck bath and oiling is done.

ii) I threaded some V207 on top and in the bobbin, stuffed 12.5 oz (5mm) of leather under the pressure foot and said it's make or break time.

The photo (ko13.jpg) shows the first seam sewn with the machine, top (shiny side) and bottom. The photo (ko14.jpg) shows the bottom.

I am surprised on how quiet it was as it sewed effortlessly through the leather and that was with a unknown brand of needle that came with the machine. The 800 watt brushless servo motor and machine is quieter then my KOBE LS-1341 with a 550watt brush motor.

iii) The other photo (ko12.jpg) is showing the comparison between what I would consider a poorer quality bobbin and a good metal bobbin side by side.

I'm actually impressed, so far. The servo motor showed no signs of struggling with what I was sewing and the speed is very controllable to control. I may not have to put a speed reducer on.

iv) Made a wax pot insert. Since for my needs I can't see myself needing to fill the pot with any fluid so it is or should I say was a waste of space. It now holds two bobbins and some needles.

Photo (ko15.jpg) shows the wax pot with the cover closed.

Photo (ko16.jpg) shows the wax pot with the cover open and with a few needles and two bobbins inside.

Photo (ko17.jpg) shows the wax pot insert sat on top of the cover.

Next step is to cut the table top, maybe tomorrow and if my calculations are right the machine won't wind up going through the floor into the basement.

kgg

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by kgg

[dikman]

Neat idea for making use of the wax pot (I just took mine off as I considered it superfluous). 

[kgg]

56 minutes ago, dikman said:

Neat idea for making use of the wax pot (I just took mine off as I considered it superfluous). 

Thank you. The reason I'm keeping it on the machine is that the thread guide on top of the wax pot is directly inline with the guide for the top thread tension disc. I'm waiting for the 3D printer to finish off a new support for the top thread pin to keep the thread in a nice straight line along the top of the machine and inline with the wax pot guide. If I'm not mistaken most clone machines mount the thread spools parallel to the machine along the rear edge of the table top and then go directly from the thread spool guide to the top thread tensioner.

Me being me I want as few angles so the thread is as close to a straight line as possible from the thread spool top guide to the tensioner. My spools of thread are going to be mounted under the table top so I can make better use of the table top for other things.

I didn't get at cutting the table top today as I had to pickup a new 100 tooth blade.

kgg

 

[RockyAussie]

On 7/16/2023 at 10:47 AM, kgg said:

I do appreciate the suggestion but my main consideration is the machine has to be topple proof because I have dogs and when they get rough housing I don't want them to be able to tip the machine from any direction. Odd need I know other wise I would have probably considered a pedestal style stand.

Funny you mention that. I have a freind up the road had his dog sit on the peddle while the machine was still turned on. A nasty mess with timing and all. Always make sure you turn the machine off when you finish I learned. Servo's don't let you know they are running.

[shoepatcher]

2 hours ago, kgg said:

Thank you. The reason I'm keeping it on the machine is that the thread guide on top of the wax pot is directly inline with the guide for the top thread tension disc. I'm waiting for the 3D printer to finish off a new support for the top thread pin to keep the thread in a nice straight line along the top of the machine and inline with the wax pot guide. If I'm not mistaken most clone machines mount the thread spools parallel to the machine along the rear edge of the table top and then go directly from the thread spool guide to the top thread tensioner.

Me being me I want as few angles so the thread is as close to a straight line as possible from the thread spool top guide to the tensioner. My spools of thread are going to be mounted under the table top so I can make better use of the table top for other things.

I didn't get at cutting the table top today as I had to pickup a new 100 tooth blade.

kgg

 

Not wax pot, oil pot.

glenn

[kgg]

45 minutes ago, shoepatcher said:

Not wax pot, oil pot.

You are correct as the real Juki part number 210-64753 as listed in the parts manual list it as Oil Pot Assembly where as places like Campbell Randell list it as part number JUK-21064753 : Thread Wax Pot - Cast Oiler. I think the common reference to the pot as a wax pot is from olden days when beeswax was used in machines like Pearson and Landis.

kgg

[kgg]

2 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Funny you mention that. I have a freind up the road had his dog sit on the peddle while the machine was still turned on. A nasty mess with timing and all. Always make sure you turn the machine off when you finish I learned. Servo's don't let you know they are running.

I can honestly see that happening with dogs and probably more so with cats deciding to have a nap there. I have one of those little magnetic LED lights plugged into the back of the servo motors on all my machines so when the motor power switch is in the "ON" position the LED light is also ON to remind me to turn the servo off.

kgg

[CowboyBob]

 

On 7/15/2023 at 8:47 PM, kgg said:

 

It's best to run the thread through 2-holes in the spool pin to give the thread alittle pre-tension to keep it fully engaged in the next tension unit as your sewing.We've found if you don't it can work it's way out as your sewing.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by CowboyBob

[kgg]

56 minutes ago, CowboyBob said:

We always roccomene=

Thank you. I definitely agree, normally I do but in this case it was just a quick photo to show off the insert for the pot. The top thread pin now has been relocated further towards the hand-wheel mounted on a thread pin spool support I just 3D printed. The new location of the thread pin creates a straight line along the length of the machine from the thread spool guide to the guide on the pot. I will drop a photo later today.

kgg

[kgg]

New location of top thread pin.

Photo 1: Shows rear location and mounting of the 3D printed support for the thread pin.

Photo  2: Shows the straight line to the thread spool top guides.

Photo 3: Shows the clearance between my chubby hand on the hand-wheel in relation to the top and bobbin thread.

[CowboyBob]

Good job,looks great!

[cashmanleather]

Here's a setup  that would work. I believe it was at Panhandle Leather.