Spontaneous Combustion and Safety With Chemicals

[Sheilajeanne]

This was posted by a wood working site, but I feel leatherworkers also need to be reminded of the dangers. 

I also know quite a few of the leatherworkers on this board also work with wood! It's a YouTube video, unfortunately. Hope you can see it!

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=6835198336500559

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Sheilajeanne

[fredk]

As you would be aware; piles of horse manure & waste hay can start burning in its depth. If not noticed and dealt with this fire can build and explode outwards setting fire to hay bales and buildings. I once had the winter supply of coal and logs start burning in its depth. This pile was right up against the oil tank which held 1000 litres of heating oil. The tank was plastic. My father did a lot of wood-turning and he often had the waste start burning as he worked

[Sheilajeanne]

It's not just waste hay, Fred. Many a farmer has lost his barn from putting hay away when it's too wet. One of my uncles said he'd once come across a burned out section of hay in the mow, where a fire had started, then extinguished itself due to lack of oxygen, as the bales were packed really tightly. He sure dodged a bullet on that one! 

That's why those big round bales wrapped in plastic have become popular as they can be stored outside, eliminating the chances of your barn going up in flames, along with all your livestock. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Sheilajeanne

[TomE]

1 hour ago, Sheilajeanne said:

It's not just waste hay, Fred. Many a farmer has lost his barn from putting hay away when it's too wet. One of my uncles said he'd once come across a burned out section of hay in the mow, where a fire had started, then extinguished itself due to lack of oxygen, as the bales were packed really tightly. He sure dodged a bullet on that one! 

That's why those big round bales wrapped in plastic have become popular as they can be stored outside, eliminating the chances of your barn going up in flames, along with all your livestock. 

Saw a hay barn fire a few years ago while traveling along I-70 in Missouri.  No one was on site and I think the fire was just starting.  Next time I traveled that way the barn was gone.  That's caused by microbial growth in the wet hay.  My main hay supplier has a moisture tester on his baler that reads out % moisture content as the bales are produced.  His hay doesn't sweat in the barn.

Another reason round bales are popular is the whole process is mechanized and one person can produce and store the hay.  It's getting hard to find kids who want to earn money bucking hay bales on a summer day.  

[bruce johnson]

Yes oily rags catch fire. I use BLO, mineral spirits, wood finishes, waxes, and solvents galore.  Everybody has some tip - lay them out flat, soak them in water, sprinkle them with salt, etc to keep them from catching fire. I’ve got a better method. I beat them to the punch and just burn them myself at the end of the day. Just light them up. It’s not like they are going to be hazard or anything after that. You probably don’t want to cook hotdogs or make S’mores over that fire but works for me. 
 

[Sheilajeanne]

5 hours ago, TomE said:

Another reason round bales are popular is the whole process is mechanized and one person can produce and store the hay.  It's getting hard to find kids who want to earn money bucking hay bales on a summer day.  

Tell me about it!! Between helping my relatives out during hay season, and working in a riding stable and the racetrack, I've bucked many a hay bale. Dirty, sweaty, prickly hard work!

[Sheilajeanne]

1 hour ago, bruce johnson said:

Yes oily rags catch fire. I use BLO, mineral spirits, wood finishes, waxes, and solvents galore.  Everybody has some tip - lay them out flat, soak them in water, sprinkle them with salt, etc to keep them from catching fire. I’ve got a better method. I beat them to the punch and just burn them myself at the end of the day. Just light them up. It’s not like they are going to be hazard or anything after that. You probably don’t want to cook hotdogs or make S’mores over that fire but works for me. 
 

 

Bruce, for over 20 years, our family lived across the road from a Metro Toronto fire captain. I once saw his wife take some rags to the curb, and set them on fire. So your solution is fire-department approved!

Another good method would be that fire proof red pail they show in the video. 

The really scary part for me was that the bags he sprayed with the fire extinguisher re-ignited a number of hours later! 

[bladegrinder]

When I lived in the city I've seen city cans at the street catch fire, a few weeks ago I changed the oil in my truck and this particular truck makes a mess so I had a nice stack of oily rags. I cut open a milk jug, put them in and filled it with water, when trash day came, that's when they went in the can. I ran the leak response truck for a natural gas utility for twenty years, where I live now I've had the forestry dept. assist me in prescribed burns four times now, fires good when it's planned and usually really bad when it's not.

As hot as this summer has been oily rags and a can are asking for trouble for sure.

[Handstitched]

Like pretty much all of us, I  also use solvents. I use   acetone every day, that has a flash point of 25 degrees C .  And toluene that I use to thin down contact adhesive also has a low flash point. Used to work with these nasties , and a few others every day making fibreglass pools long ago .  The most dangerous time was  hot Summers, the whole place becomes a lot more volatile  .  A mix of resin  mixed with MEKP ( catalyst)     left in a pot can self combust  if left long enough.  Thats how fibreglass factories go up. And static can also  be deadly . 

I also worked in petrol stations a long time ago, seems all my life I've worked with dangerous substances . 

Off topic : Lately, here in Oz, people throwing batteries out in the rubbish, causing fires in the back of the trucks.  OOPS!! 

HS

[Klara]

10 hours ago, Sheilajeanne said:

That's why those big round bales wrapped in plastic have become popular as they can be stored outside,...

Completely off-topic, for general education: It's not hay in those plastic-wrapped bales. It's baleage, almost-hay that has been wrapped before it was dry and is now fermenting in a plastic bag. It's quicker to make than hay (because it needn't dry so long) which reduces the weather risk and you can cut the grass earlier in the year, when it is greener and more nutricious (and you'll get more regrowth).

The big disadvantage is that the bales spoil quickly once opened, so you need a reasonably-sized herd of animals who'll eat it. My sheep refused when we tested. Baleage is not popular with horse owners either...

 

 

 

 

 

[Mulesaw]

9 hours ago, Klara said:

Completely off-topic, for general education: It's not hay in those plastic-wrapped bales. It's baleage, almost-hay that has been wrapped before it was dry and is now fermenting in a plastic bag. It's quicker to make than hay (because it needn't dry so long) which reduces the weather risk and you can cut the grass earlier in the year, when it is greener and more nutricious (and you'll get more regrowth).

The big disadvantage is that the bales spoil quickly once opened, so you need a reasonably-sized herd of animals who'll eat it. My sheep refused when we tested. Baleage is not popular with horse owners either...

Baleage is pretty popular for horses where I live, but it is not the same as for the cows.

If you make it for cows it can be bales and wrapped more or less immediately after it has been harvested/mowed. If you make it for horses it needs to dry first, kind of like for regular hay except you don't let it dry quite as long. After the drying it is pressed into bales and wrapped. there is a lot of work involved in the process when it is used for horse feed, due to all the regular steps so it isn't cheap, but the horses like it and it is easy to store outside during the rainy autumn and winter. But like you say, you need a sizeable herd to eat it before it turns bad.

 

[Littlef]

I'm in a condo, so lighting a bucket on fire on my patio would not be appreciated by the neighbors, or the HOA.  I take my rags and lay them out flat for a day to let any solvents fume off.  For BLO or Tung oil, I save orange peels and apple cores or whatever fruit I have, and wrap rags around the fruit to help keep them from getting balled up together.  Then, I walk them out to the steel dumpster.  It also helps that I'm just a hobbyist, and not running a business, so my oily rags are minimal.

[tsunkasapa]

19 hours ago, TomE said:

Another reason round bales are popular is the whole process is mechanized and one person can produce and store the hay.  It's getting hard to find kids who want to earn money bucking hay bales on a summer day.  

I worked hay from 6 until I was 18 back in the 60s, early 70s. At that time the harrow bed put us kids out of work The only hay to be bucked after that was packing it in containers for shipping. They even tore down a lot of the traditional barns to build ones that would accommodate the harrow beds. The round bales aren't used here at all, but there are a few that use the big 4x4x8 bales.

[chuck123wapati]

We fired our boilers with coal at the prison, the coal piles had to be constantly monitored for hot spots especially after rain or snow. I've seen them catch in sub zero weather. I've thrown my share of bales as well lol. Then graduated to pulling slips and throwing chain on an oil rig man life was exciting when i was young. As for spontaneous combustion i managed to survive an actual blowout one time, when we got the well shut in the whole rig from the crown to ground was covered in 6 inches of gas infused drilling mud. it looked like brown soda pop foam there was so much gas bubbling out of it and one spark would have been the end of me and four others. 

[Handstitched]

15 hours ago, tsunkasapa said:

The round bales aren't used here at all, but there are a few that use the big 4x4x8 bales.

The round bales are used a lot down here. When theres a  huge paddock full of them , they remind me of cheese. ( thinking with my stomach ...again)   The huge square bales are also used, mainly for export. 

14 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

As for spontaneous combustion i managed to survive an actual blowout one time, when we got the well shut in the whole rig from the crown to ground was covered in 6 inches of gas infused drilling mud. it looked like brown soda pop foam there was so much gas bubbling out of it and one spark would have been the end of me and four others. 

You're one lucky man indeed .  We look back at the things that has happened to us over the years and wonder how  we ever survived it.  

The really  dumb things I've done,  OMG , I'm lucky to be here . Someone was looking over us I'm sure

HS