maggielj Report post Posted October 16, 2023 Hi all, I am embarking on that big journey of finding myself a machine to be used for sewing leather. I have been stalking the local facebook marketplace and have found a cowboy 4500 for sale about an hour and a half from me. This is an beautiful machine, one that I would be proud to have. Painted a glossy black with red and gold pinstripes all the way down to the foot pedals. I believe that this was a special edition machine sold by Cowboy but have not found much info other than that. The seller list it as having little run time, and being a few hours from Toledo I would like to think it came from Cowboy Bob. I am going to go look at this machine in the near future, and am wondering what all I should be keeping an eye out for, or what may stand out as a red flag when buying a used machine. As of now I plan on bringing a flashlight and checking the components for cracks or wear, and also plan on freeing it from the servo to ensure that the head runs smoothly. Is there anything else I should be on the lookout for? Is it polite to bring scrap to run the machine? I have owned large industrial machines before, made for fabric but never a walking foot machine. If I decide that this machine is a safe purchase, what is the best way to transport this beauty? The machine is on casters, I have a truck and a flatbed trailer with a smooth ramp, but would it be to top heavy to transport like this? Would laying it down on blankets be a safe way? Or should I be looking to find a box trailer where it can be strapped to the walls. In the past, I have taken the head off from the machine, put that in the truck cab and put the table in the bed on blankets. Can this even be done with this type of machine? What can I expect for this machine to weigh? Thank you, maggielj Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chisel Report post Posted October 16, 2023 Definitely test sewing with the machine before you consider purchasing. If you buy it, remove the machine from the table. Don't even try to transport as it is because it's very top heavy as you said. One slip up and it's game over. As you remove the four bolts holding the machine to the table, support the needle end of the machine. If the machine head is too heavy, remove handwheel. Place machine upright in vehicle and strap to walls or floor. Protect with old blankets and pillows as needed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maggielj Report post Posted October 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, chisel said: Definitely test sewing with the machine before you consider purchasing. If you buy it, remove the machine from the table. Don't even try to transport as it is because it's very top heavy as you said. One slip up and it's game over. As you remove the four bolts holding the machine to the table, support the needle end of the machine. If the machine head is too heavy, remove handwheel. Place machine upright in vehicle and strap to walls or floor. Protect with old blankets and pillows as needed. Thank you for the response, but I have a few additional questions now. It is my understanding that as long as the head is upright it is safe to lay the table in the bed? And it looks like the machine is help on using socket head cap screws, so along with Allen wrenches is there any other specific tools I should bring? Thank you, maggielj Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted October 16, 2023 The machine probably shipped with a couple of Metric wrenches for the most common bolts. Just bring a set that includes everything from 10 through 15mm. Also, bring a large flat blade screw driver with a fat handle. You can set the head upright in the back or front floorboard and tie it in place. Put some padding in the truck bed and lay the pedestal stand down with the post on the bottom and tie it down. Take the parts drawer out first and put it in the truck. There will be needles, bobbins, wrenches, extra feet, extra throat plates and probably a 4 ounce precision oiler. Bring a box for the small parts and all the thread you'll probably be getting. I've owned a CB4500 since 2012 and it has never seized or broken down after 11 years of regular use. I would ask to plug in the machine and test it to ensure that it turns over smoothly and actually sews. Bring several pieces of 8-10 ounce leather. If it is threaded with #277 thread, it needs at least 1/4 inch thickness to easily hide the lockstitch knots. Unless it's been modified, the thinnest it will sew is about 8 ounces, using #138 thread. It can be modded later to sew thinner with thinner thread and needles. The black and gold finish indicates that the machine came from a former dealer in Arlington, Texas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kgg Report post Posted October 16, 2023 9 hours ago, maggielj said: If I decide that this machine is a safe purchase, what is the best way to transport this beauty? The machine is on casters, I have a truck and a flatbed trailer with a smooth ramp, but would it be to top heavy to transport like this? Would laying it down on blankets be a safe way? Or should I be looking to find a box trailer where it can be strapped to the walls. In the past, I have taken the head off from the machine, put that in the truck cab and put the table in the bed on blankets. Can this even be done with this type of machine? What can I expect for this machine to weigh? The machine head is going to be heavy expect it to be in the 110 + pounds range. You will need the second set of hands for lifting or moving it. I would: i) use your truck bed for the pedestal stand down laying it on it's side on a piece of thick styrofoam covered with some heavy moving blankets and strapped / tied down. ii) the head is going to be nose heavy and definitely well want to fall forward nose first. So I think the best way to transport it is with it strapped down securely on it's side in the cab on the seat or strapped securely in place stood up in the cab with the nose supported with styrofoam. Best of luck, kgg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CowboyBob Report post Posted October 16, 2023 5 hours ago, kgg said: The machine head is going to be heavy expect it to be in the 110 + pounds range. You will need the second set of hands for lifting or moving it. I would: i) use your truck bed for the pedestal stand down laying it on it's side on a piece of thick styrofoam covered with some heavy moving blankets and strapped / tied down. ii) the head is going to be nose heavy and definitely well want to fall forward nose first. So I think the best way to transport it is with it strapped down securely on it's side in the cab on the seat or strapped securely in place stood up in the cab with the nose supported with styrofoam. Best of luck, kgg Good ideas,we usually put the head behind the seat (upright)on the floor if they have a 4-door truck,.they fit real nice & then they can push the passenger seat back against it to keep it from moving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maggielj Report post Posted October 18, 2023 On 10/15/2023 at 11:28 PM, Wizcrafts said: The machine probably shipped with a couple of Metric wrenches for the most common bolts. Just bring a set that includes everything from 10 through 15mm. Also, bring a large flat blade screw driver with a fat handle. You can set the head upright in the back or front floorboard and tie it in place. Put some padding in the truck bed and lay the pedestal stand down with the post on the bottom and tie it down. Take the parts drawer out first and put it in the truck. There will be needles, bobbins, wrenches, extra feet, extra throat plates and probably a 4 ounce precision oiler. Bring a box for the small parts and all the thread you'll probably be getting. I've owned a CB4500 since 2012 and it has never seized or broken down after 11 years of regular use. I would ask to plug in the machine and test it to ensure that it turns over smoothly and actually sews. Bring several pieces of 8-10 ounce leather. If it is threaded with #277 thread, it needs at least 1/4 inch thickness to easily hide the lockstitch knots. Unless it's been modified, the thinnest it will sew is about 8 ounces, using #138 thread. It can be modded later to sew thinner with thinner thread and needles. The black and gold finish indicates that the machine came from a former dealer in Arlington, Texas. Thank you @Wizcrafts, I have read a lot of your post and thank you for all of the information you share, and they have influenced me to look at this machine. I do however have an additional question, this machine is listed as having low run time on it, but without accessories what do you think would be a fair offer on this machine? I've seen these 4500s vary a lot in pricing, usually $1,500- $2,500 (USD) but I would assume that the paint makes it worth more. Thank you, maggielj Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maggielj Report post Posted October 18, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 1:17 PM, CowboyBob said: Good ideas,we usually put the head behind the seat (upright)on the floor if they have a 4-door truck,.they fit real nice & then they can push the passenger seat back against it to keep it from moving. Thank you for that tip! Ill most likely pinch it between the seats with some extra support where I can. I do have an additional question though, and it is a hard one to answer, but in your opinion what would be a fair price to offer for this machine? I see the 4500s vary from $1500-$2500 (USD), but was wondering if the paint makes it worth more. Thank you, maggielj Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CowboyBob Report post Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) On 10/18/2023 at 5:05 PM, maggielj said: Thank you for that tip! Ill most likely pinch it between the seats with some extra support where I can. I do have an additional question though, and it is a hard one to answer, but in your opinion what would be a fair price to offer for this machine? I see the 4500s vary from $1500-$2500 (USD), but was wondering if the paint makes it worth more. Thank you, maggielj @maggieljThe "Special Edition" was another sellers idea & he sold them for $500.00 more(the pin striper charged $350.00), I never sold them I didn't feel it was worth it since it'll probably rub off in use,most of my customers don't want to spend no more than they have to. Edited October 20, 2023 by CowboyBob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maggielj Report post Posted October 21, 2023 18 hours ago, CowboyBob said: @maggieljThe "Special Edition" was another sellers idea & he sold them for $500.00 more(the pin striper charged $350.00), I never sold them I didn't feel it was worth it since it'll probably rub off in use,most of my customers don't want to spend no more than they have to. @CowboyBob Thank you! that helps me out a ton in putting together an offer! maggielj Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
