Anyone else getting sick and tired of paying premium prices and being sent scuffed up lower grade hides?

[SpruceMoose]

Just a rant. I've been searching for a new supplier and have tried a few recently, that are official distributors of H&O and W&C. Tired of receiving 600.00 sides of tooling leather that is scuffed, excessively marked, rough backs etc. I just want to PAY for QUALITY. They may tool nice, but huge scuffs across the whole thing shows on dyed leather. I might as well go back to gambling with tandy's sides. 

Anyone buy direct from W&C or H&O  from Canada and have better luck. I wish I could pick leather out myself, but no stores near me. Maybe my expectations are too high.

Edit: (side note: I am not talking about natural markings, some are certainly expected, fat marks, bites, brand. I am talking about the hide being marred from handling)

Or am i just having a year long streak of bad luck.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by SpruceMoose

[kgg]

2 hours ago, SpruceMoose said:

I wish I could pick leather out myself, but no stores near me.

Depending on how many hides you buy it maybe worth while to make a road trip to Montreal and pick your hides.

kgg

[Bert03241]

also theres a leather outlet in Maine might no be to far for you to go take a loook see.

[SpruceMoose]

3 hours ago, kgg said:

Depending on how many hides you buy it maybe worth while to make a road trip to Montreal and pick your hides.

kgg

That's quit a drive from here, even Halifax (tandy). As business picks up I might have to just order tannery direct, but the minimums can be restricting.

[Burkhardt]

7 hours ago, SpruceMoose said:

That's quit a drive from here, even Halifax (tandy). As business picks up I might have to just order tannery direct, but the minimums can be restricting.

Do the online stores you're going through have different grades to choose from, like A, A/B, branded, craftsman or economy for H.O.?

[SpruceMoose]

9 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

Do the online stores you're going through have different grades to choose from, like A, A/B, branded, craftsman or economy for H.O.?

Yes, the whole range of grades, I even talked to the owner. I always state i am looking for the best grade.  I swear i was sent a 'utility' side for a high price. I'm just surprised by the quality a bunch of good reputation businesses are sending out, especially after talking to them(sometimes the owner) saying i am looking for high quality, been having bad luck with other suppliers and am looking for a new supplier. I am not a very big business, but 5-10 sides a year of tooling leather, soon to be more. If I had the room I'd buy the tannery minimum flat of 10.

Edited November 8, 2023 by SpruceMoose

[Simplejack1985]

W&C will sell you directly. Just cut the middle men out of the equation. Honestly I'm about done with HO. Everyone that sends me A sides are B grade

[SpruceMoose]

11 hours ago, Simplejack1985 said:

W&C will sell you directly. Just cut the middle men out of the equation. Honestly I'm about done with HO. Everyone that sends me A sides are B grade

I've actually just contacted them, i didn't realize they don't have a minimum order. The only thing that will suck is customs, duties and brokerage fees, making an already 500 dollar hide become more like 6-8. Buckle g at least, uh, omits some stuff and i barely get dinged.

[billybopp]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:54 AM, SpruceMoose said:

I've actually just contacted them, i didn't realize they don't have a minimum order. The only thing that will suck is customs, duties and brokerage fees, making an already 500 dollar hide become more like 6-8. Buckle g at least, uh, omits some stuff and i barely get dinged.

You might check this page on W&C website ... They have distributors in CA, which might bypass some of the additional charges.  https://wickett-craig.com/distributors/

- Bill

[SpruceMoose]

6 hours ago, billybopp said:

You might check this page on W&C website ... They have distributors in CA, which might bypass some of the additional charges.  https://wickett-craig.com/distributors/

- Bill

I've boughten from official distributors of w&c and HO and have had bad luck. I might just go direct and eat the customs and duty fees

[Handstitched]

I know its not possible for everyone, but  I much prefer to pick my hides up directly from my supplier, even though its 2-3hrs drive  to the busy  ' big smoke' .  I'll be getting some on Friday .  I let them know what I need ,  I'll let them know before my arrival, they'll have the hides rolled out for me to pick & choose when I arrive .  "  Yep, I'll have that that that  & that" . Rarely have I rejected one. After buying from the same supplier for many years, I have a good rapport  with my supplier, that helps. 

HS

[SpruceMoose]

Too bad Hermann Oaks' only Canadian distributor was a bad experience. They were very nice over the phone, answered my questions, i even stated i was a new customer and have been having difficulty with quality and wanted the best money can buy, they (the owner actually) recommended a certain grade and assured that they send out quality. Received scuffed up damaged product, sent photos politely inquiring if this was what they considered quality for the grade(did not ask to return as for holiday orders it was needed immediately) they stated that it was high quality and is what is to be expected for said grade. 

Disappointed in their customer service and quality especially as a mom and pop shop. 

Trying to work around long burnished drag and scuff marks that travel almost the length of the hide is a nuisance for a 500 dollar hide, 

Another company off of my possible supplier list. 

 

 

[Burkhardt]

10 hours ago, SpruceMoose said:

Received scuffed up damaged product, sent photos

Could you post the photos?

[SpruceMoose]

11 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

Could you post the photos?

Maybe I'm crazy and my expectations are too high, I was going to buy straight a/b grade but the company owner suggested the a/b branded grade and assured me it was fantastic and it was the exact same quality as a/b hermann oak just with a  brand, But to me this is utility grade with numerous huge drag marks from handling, there's a bunch vertical as well but they blend in with the fat marks, hard to photograph. Dye doesn't hide burnished in markings and scuffs from man handling. 500.00. 

(Note: I am not talking about the brand or the fat marks, this i obviously do not mind as it's part of leather, i buy about 6-10 sides a year over the past decade, but just the quality is getting worse or my luck as well, i just want to pay good money for good leather and am tired of companies saying what's pictured here is the best grade you can buy)

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by SpruceMoose
added photo

[fredk]

Why not send it back as unacceptable ?

Do that a few times and they'll get the message

[kgg]

1 hour ago, SpruceMoose said:

Note: I am not talking about the brand or the fat marks, this i obviously do not mind as it's part of leather, i buy about 6-10 sides a year over the past decade, but just the quality is getting worse or my luck as well, i just want to pay good money for good leather and am tired of companies saying what's pictured here is the best grade you can buy

I would have sent it back.

kgg

[chuck123wapati]

2 minutes ago, fredk said:

Why not send it back as unacceptable ?

Do that a few times and they'll get the message

they will just sell it to some other person more ignorant of the quality. they don't care and that is the problem  i ranted about this a while back on a post then when I emailed and told them that they actually said I may be banned from buying from them lol. Then I had to explain who the customer was with the money and who wanted to sell and who was really banned form the process.

[SpruceMoose]

40 minutes ago, fredk said:

Why not send it back as unacceptable ?

Do that a few times and they'll get the message

I normally would have sent it back but i am in a christmas order time crunch. Plus they do not accept returns for any reason so it would have been a battle.

 

Good to know i'm not just overly expectant. Just a shame, thought the only official canadian HO distributor would have a better judgment of quality/grade

[kgg]

32 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

told them that they actually said I may be banned from buying from them lol. Then I had to explain who the customer was with the money and who wanted to sell and who was really banned form the process.

And they wonder why people buy imported stuff from not so environmentally protective countries. What a shame.

kgg

[fredk]

2 minutes ago, SpruceMoose said:

. . . Plus they do not accept returns for any reason so it would have been a battle.

A lot of firms say that but it means nothing, You have consumer rights. I doubt that they vary much. You have the right to expect goods of merchantable quality. As for getting your money back; how did you pay? I prefer credit card. Then I can cancel the payment, even months later. The credit card company is your insurance

[Burkhardt]

I would never pay that much for a side cause I'm cheap.  150.00 a side HO economy and I work around  any issues but I either tool or stamp so no worries about most of it. I literally got a hide that you could see daylight like it was shot with a shotgun. But the overall don't look like yours. I know the exchange rate from the states suck but I'd go the quantity to get the quality and if there's a bad spot  cut from the other. If you could get 2 hides for 300.00 U.S. would the exchange rate be over the 200.00 difference

[SpruceMoose]

10 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

I would never pay that much for a side cause I'm cheap.  150.00 a side HO economy and I work around  any issues but I either tool or stamp so no worries about most of it. I literally got a hide that you could see daylight like it was shot with a shotgun. But the overall don't look like yours. I know the exchange rate from the states suck but I'd go the quantity to get the quality and if there's a bad spot  cut from the other. If you could get 2 hides for 300.00 U.S. would the exchange rate be over the 200.00 difference

For 8 years all i bought was cheap and rough tandy tooling leather and worked with it and had good luck in what i received, but my closest tandy changed management and staff awhile back, what was once a good customer experience became a piss off every box i opened and management didn't give a crap about what they sent.

Either way i'm at the point where i want an approximate consistency and quality in how a hide tools, dyes and accepts finish, (as my product quality and prices have gone up) and not have to play tetris trying to place templates around marks while wasting minimal leather . I tool everything i make as well however there's often long strap pieces without anything but a simple edge and border stamp, irregular shapes, so cutting out a whole hide in the one product can be a struggle to place the highly tooled piece and the bare strap when a hide is dinged up. You know, i should really get a smaller basket stamp and stamp the whole dang thing lol, but i like the contrast of some un-tooled leather

The exchange rate does suck, but it's usually the customs and duties and brokerage fees on top that make a cheap economy hide still work out to be real expensive. On average mid-high range tooling sides are at least 400-500 in Canada, buying from the states is initially cheaper until the fed ex bill comes(unless the company lies on the product value, and i know of a few companies that do this as a default). Most suppliers that have HO and W&C it's expensive no matter the grade in Canada. But like i said, i price my product high so an expensive hide still makes above and beyond.

 

I've had decent luck with buckle guy's w&c so i may go back. I'd like to try the Sepicii tooling as well.

I got spoiled for 3 bends of french pasted back tooling leather a few months ago, unfortunately unknown source, just something that was sitting on the back shelf of a local tack shop that was 10 years old, but was the smoothest, supple yet firm and cleanest most beautiful tooling leather i'd ever seen. If i could find that again lol

 

[bladegrinder]

I feel your pain, I usually order 12 feet or so at a time. And usually a better grade but not the A, it seems like anything lesser then A is all the same…utility. I sent one piece back that had what looked like roller grease or burn marks over 75% of it on the flesh side, I was furious, I needed it NOW and they sent me that. I called them and asked how it ever made it out their door, of course no answer just ‘we’re sorry”. I don’t know what the answer is, ever time I buy a piece and look at it, at first it’s like, well it looks somewhat ok, then every time I go cut into it it seems I find more flaws. This is all HO leather, I think next time I’m going to buy from W-C straight from them and keep my fingers crossed. I’m willing to pay or have to buy more if it’s guaranteed to be a good side.

Edited November 16, 2023 by bladegrinder

[DeWayne Hayes]

This is a small panel I just bought from Buckleguy of Wicket & Craig carving leather. Some weird black (dye) stains on it. 

I'm going to attempt sending back. This was my first time buying W&C leather but I get now what people mean when they mention W&C leather feels "spongy" to them, or soft. Very pliable - not sure if it would firm up enough after wet forming for holster use, but regardless, I don't want to spend hours working on a project wondering how bad those black spots will show. 

[MarshalWill]

Those spots could be from touching it with wet steel. Steel (iron) is what makes vinegaroon black. I've had similar spots after I used my drill press to impress a stamp. Obviously I got it against some steel in the shop. I have to take care to not touch the wet leather against any steel.