Is there a better way to end your hand stitching?

[DeWayne Hayes]

I am curious if anyone has a novel approach to finishing a stitch line.  I do knife sheaths and gun holsters and have never been happy with my final two or three stitches being backstitched to lock down the thread end. It always looks bulkier in that one spot and attracts my OCD eye every time I look at it.  My understanding is that even with nylon thread, where you'd simply melt the thread ends, most people backstitch one or two holes to lock it down. 

Is there a better way? Some sort of internal knot in the last hole maybe (though my experience is nylon knots tend to come loose.) 

Any novel approaches I'm not aware of? 

[chuck123wapati]

3 minutes ago, DeWayne Hayes said:

 

Is there a better way?

Nope IMO. If there was it would be widely used, and very well known already the practice of sewing leather is thousands of years old.

[Mablung]

Conceivably one could tie a few tight knots in the last hole and hide them between the two layers and the tension of the stitches would keep them tight, as would any edge treatment done (especially if one finished veg tan edges using beeswax, as I generally do).  But that's not quite as tight or sure as backstitching.  Personally, I kinda like the look of the backstitching, but that's me.

[DeWayne Hayes]

I hear you, guys. It's the standard for a reason, I'm sure. 

What I have done before, like on these two sheaths, is literally backstitch the entire thing - just so I could achieve a uniform fat stitch line. It's tedious, but I like the robust look. Just trying to explore if there might be a way to do it with a single line, ending tidily with no backstitching. May be the impossible dream ... 

 

[toxo]

There are times when the locking stitches can come through between the layers. Not tested but maybe there's an answer using what I'll call the fishing rod whipping end technique where a separate length of thread is doubled over and previously laid between the layers so that the main thread can be pulled through to be finished elsewhere. Don't know if I've explained this sufficiently. No doubt someone can do a better job.

[Gezzer]

My 2 cents

If you have contacted it all , maybe just a touch of white glue on the thread just as you pull them in .I think fiction and the white glue would hold BUUUUUUUUUUUT I don't know this .

 

Or like Toxo said , something like a bowstring serving finish .

Edited November 30, 2023 by Gezzer
late to the game

[GrampaJoel]

1 hour ago, DeWayne Hayes said:

I hear you, guys. It's the standard for a reason, I'm sure. 

What I have done before, like on these two sheaths, is literally backstitch the entire thing - just so I could achieve a uniform fat stitch line. It's tedious, but I like the robust look. Just trying to explore if there might be a way to do it with a single line, ending tidily with no backstitching. May be the impossible dream ... 

 

Hummmm, didn’t back stitching the whole length leave you with the same dilemma?
of,   Where, and how,  to end the stitch?

 

[DwightT]

A long time ago when I was first starting my grandfather showed me a technique where on the last stitch he would push the needles into the last hole on each side, but come out between the layers.  He would then tie a knot that was pulled tight between the layers, add a dab of glue as has been mentioned, and cut off the loose ends.  He wound up with a slight bump in the leather from the knot, but otherwise it looked OK.

I tried it a couple times, but I never could get the knot to hold tight enough, so I just went back to backstitching.  The doubled-up stitches didn't bother me (just seems like the way it should be in my mind) and it seems to hold better.

    /dwight

[DeWayne Hayes]

2 hours ago, GrampaJoel said:

Hummmm, didn’t back stitching the whole length leave you with the same dilemma?
of,   Where, and how,  to end the stitch?

 

No, when I back stitch the whole thing (i.e. double stitch the whole thing) I just pull through my last stitch hole and cut the the thread off very tight to the hole, and press it into the waxy thread next to it. By this point , that hole is tight with four thicknesses of thread, so I'm not too worried about the thread backing out of it. 

Also, I stitch before wet forming, and that causes the leather to shrink and tighten around the stitching anyway when it dries - so I imagine those holes are all pretty darned tight to the thread. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by DeWayne Hayes

[dikman]

If the layers aren't glued then what Dwight said should work (I've seen this method mentioned elsewhere) BUT whether it will be as strong as backstitching.......

[AlZilla]

Yep, @DwightT beat me to it.  I back stitch anyway but I like pulling the ends out between the layers, tying a double knot and dropping a little crazy glue in there.

[TonyV]

I sometimes pull the needles out through the layers at the last stitch, tie a square knot very close and tuck it in between the layers,  then tap the leather to make the knot disappear.  It's invisible, there is no glue and square knot is unlikely to come undone.  It doesn't work on all projects, but a sheath is a good candidate.

[Handstitched]

11 hours ago, DeWayne Hayes said:

Any novel approaches I'm not aware of? 

I use my stitching (spacer) wheel to mark where the holes go, after stitching , I run the stitching wheel over the finished stitching on both sides . I think I got that idea from Al Stohlman . 

HS

[Mablung]

On 11/30/2023 at 11:16 AM, DeWayne Hayes said:

I hear you, guys. It's the standard for a reason, I'm sure. 

What I have done before, like on these two sheaths, is literally backstitch the entire thing - just so I could achieve a uniform fat stitch line. It's tedious, but I like the robust look. Just trying to explore if there might be a way to do it with a single line, ending tidily with no backstitching. May be the impossible dream ... 

 

That stitching and edging look wonderful. I also have to ask, who makes the top knife, with the broad, beefy blade and immaculately polished convex grind?

[Ddat]

I used to backstitch, but now I just tie a tight square knot inside the last hole for that length of thread and then carefully melt the ends -especially helpful when I hand stitch a belt. I do it in 2 passes. Been doing that for about 2 years now. A short time regarding the life expectation of my leather products, we'll see if they all come undone...

[bruce johnson]

My thoughts -

The thing to realize is that handsewing has been around a few thousand years and synthetics threads about 60-70.  It developed into  a method the most durable thread for most work was hand twisted linen and then treated with a sticky wax/pinepitch combination (coad) for most handsewing projects. Coad recipes varied and everyone had a favorite. The casting an overhand into each stitch, the fibers themselves and the wax/pitch locked the threads down pretty well. On things with linear (Bag flaps) or three side sewing (pockets and sheaths) the beginnings and ends were often the higher stress areas of the stitch line, backstitching filled those same size awl made the holes even tighter and resisted pulling through. Function over perceived aesthetics. The old needle and awl machines with their lockstitch and hot waxed threads were the mechanical alternative. Break one stitch in the line and the wax and thread in the adjacent stitches was often enough to hold the rest of the line in use. Offer to pick stitches on an old saddle skirt and see how locked things are. 

It has all changed with slick synthetic threads designed to run through high speed closed needle machines. These threads are often prelubricated and lock security dropped a lot, especially when used for handsewing. Now with more punched or chiseled stitch holes and fewer appropriate-sized awl holes, handsewing is even less secure in the last 10 years. These are not the same threads and methods Stohlman dealt with in the books. New construction or repairs, I backstitch way more than 3. With full perimeter sewing and I oversew at least 3.  I burn ends on everything synthetic. If a fine tip soldering iron is out of reach, You can make a pretty precise burned end with a small scratch awl tip tip heated with a lighter. 

[Ddat]

Thanks for the history lesson @bruce johnson.

 

Now I'm worried that my projects are all going to come loose. In your opinion, when hand sewing, backstitch how many and that should be secure? 

wood creating a coad for synthetic thread serve the same purpose as it did on the natural fingers? It's there a knot that would hold better than the square knot I've been using? I like the look of no backstitch lately.

[bruce johnson]

9 hours ago, Ddat said:

Thanks for the history lesson @bruce johnson.

 

Now I'm worried that my projects are all going to come loose. In your opinion, when hand sewing, backstitch how many and that should be secure? 

wood creating a coad for synthetic thread serve the same purpose as it did on the natural fingers? It's there a knot that would hold better than the square knot I've been using? I like the look of no backstitch lately.

The waxes will not penetrate and stick on the synthetic threads like they do on natural fibers. The slick surface and added lubes won’t bond to the wax and pitch. As far as knots - square knot is probably as small and secure as any. 

[Frodo]

Throw in a lock stitch 4 holes before the end

I use a lock stitch I. Long runs. Any stitch line that is over 4” on my work gets a lock stitch simple to do,  back up a hole then continue on

if you use a lock stitch just before the end

every stitch behind it will stay tight.  After your lock stitch  sew to the last hole stick your needle threw the top layer and out in between layers of leather 

tie, cut, singe, poke out of site 

[Outfitr]

I just pull the last half stitch to the back of the project snip the two threads and melt them with my battery thread burner. Never had anything even loosen. I pretty much use tiger thread exclusively. I also try to size the holes and thread size together depending on the project so it's a tight fit and very hard to back stitch.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Outfitr