Consew 230R-1 setting it up for leather

[Northmount]

34 minutes ago, lilbax said:

Are there walking foot machines that won’t handle leather well or are they generally made for thick dense material?

Lots of options.  Upholstery type walking foot for leather up to 3/8" and thread sizes 46 to 207, all the way up to 441 clones that will do 7/8" and thread sizes 69 to 346.

See this link for Cowboy machines.

[maggielj]

4 hours ago, lilbax said:

You may have felt the pain I did huh? I feel so dumb but hopefully I will learn from this mistake. 

We have all been there, it happens. Dont be so hard on yourself

[MarlinDave]

I have my first machine sitting in the back of my shop. It is the same model Lucy Arnaz used in the I Love Lucy episode where she sewed her sleeve into the dress she was making. Bought it for leather. Will sew one thickness, not 2. 

[nylonRigging]

On 1/18/2024 at 11:18 PM, lilbax said:

Thanks for sharing. So the when you say I can tune it to those size needles is that just buying them and they will swap out or are there other adjustments that need to made for that different needle to have correct timing etc?

 

On my immediate grab list will be:

Thread 69 text/thread

Needles 135x5 or 135x 16/17 size  

Heavy Tooth dog and needle plate  

Roller presser foot

Play with the tension

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I’ll see how that goes and get a servo controller after if I don’t have enough control. Does this sound like a good start and I can do some leather projects on it?  

 

Your machine should be a 135x5 needle right now ? , Your machine is pretty common. just figure out what DB Model MITSUBISHI, that is looks like and go from there for info also . 
Needles like 135x5 is perfectly fine. Your machine isn't doing any bigger than #69 thread anyway. 135x17 offers a little bit bigger needle thread hole for larger thread, but you wont need it.

It a good learning experience for you and changing out a few things on this bottom-feed machine, and will be good basic knowledge, and be pretty helpful when you moving-up to a better machine latter on. 'Basic stuff ' like this translates over down the line.
You changing out Needles , Dogs, needle-plate, Feet ...etc. that is real economical ' for your machine . Just go on Ebay for presser feet, or a roller foot . If just using standard presser foot,  just buy both a Large and a Medium Dog and needle-plates to play around and see which feeds best to what you doing . You might not even need to go to the largest tooth Dog .
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Your machine will stitch thinner leather . It is just that a unison-feed, or a drop-feed walk has far better feed and needle control.

I threw a couple Pics. in to show you. I cut a piece of old scrap leather/deer . It is average @ about 1.33 mm thick. it still fairly supple but Old.
I doubled 2x thick, and it was about 2.70 mm thick . .  then tripled 3x thick to about 4.50 mm thick .. then 4x thick to 5.04+ on the Caliper .
I did Little effort on my end, I just used what #69 that was already strung-up on the machine and the 20# needle hole round point fabric needle . It just sewed it all on the 1st attempt, no practice scraps before I took the Pics.
I keep an old DB-170 Mitsu. and I worked it over to Feed heavier cordura/webbing with a better servo drive,and 135x17 needle, higher tension . 69/T-70 is the limit on thread size.

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[Wizcrafts]

18 hours ago, lilbax said:

Are there walking foot machines that won’t handle leather well or are they generally made for thick dense material?

In fact, there are! Some manufacturers offer/offered walking foot machines with dual feed, which is really geared towards the upholstery and banner/tarp business. Other walking foot machines are designed to sew denim garments. Yet others are intended for use sewing Velcro and heavy webbing.

A dual feed machine has a moving feed dog pushing on the bottom, while a moving outside foot claws it in sync on the top. I have had such machines and they can be absolutely brutal on veg-tan, or retan leather. These machines tend to leave deep tooth marks on both sides. Thus, if you intend to sew veg-tan leather projects, stay away from dual feed machines that claw the work through on the top.

Please note that some companies, or aftermarket sellers offer knurled teeth feet that supposedly are less damaging to veg-tan leather on their dual top/bottom feed machines. Sailrite comes to mind with their portable dual feed machines that re  designed to sew sailcloth, Bimini covers, awnings, and boat seat covers.

Some reasons why a walking foot machine may not do a good job sewing leather are it may have a light duty (and light weight) hook, light duty springs, or be designed with an automatic oiling system (and internal pump) that needs to spin at 20 to 60 stitches per second. Some dual feed machines only have 1/4 inch clearance under the feet while in action.

This next machine brings me full circle to the second head I bought, back in 1985, that I used to sew my leather vest. I was a Singer class 15-something that had a spring loaded follow foot. The work was clawed along by the feed dog on the bottom, while the presser foot followed it backwards on top. The inside "vibrating" foot went up and down with the needle. When that foot was down hard, the leather was help in place. As that foot lifted with the ascending needle, the feed dog and top spring loaded foot moved the leather. It turned out to be a light duty machine that couldn't handle thick thread, or two layers of 8 ounce holster leather.

Over many decades, Adler, Juki, Mitsubishi, Pfaff and Singer produced some awesome walking foot designs. For instance, I used to have a Singer 42-5 flat bed follow foot machine that sewed up to a little under 3/8 inch of veg-tan leather, using #277 bonded nylon thread. The head weighed over 100 pounds! The bobbins were cylindrical and held lots of thick thread. All of the springs were super heavy duty. I sewed things like heavy work aprons and tool belts, bikers' and Farriers chaps and stirrup straps on it. Somebody saw me using it and made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Now, it's theirs.

[dikman]

Lilbax, have you read the sticky at the top about the type of machine(s) needed to sew leather? That is required reading for anyone looking for a machine. There's a lot of info to absorb but it should help with understanding the issues with sewing leather.

[Silkcut]

The 230 is a nice machine, and given what you state you want to do with it, should be capable of handling it. 2-4mm of leather isn't going to give it trouble. I have a Consew 230, with reverse. I don't know if mine is exactly the same as yours though. No where on mine is an "R1" designation?? These are high speed garment machines and can really spit some material out the backside. They're also good with lighter canvas and polypropolene covers, like on temporary buildings. You might get the idea to try and use a  walking foot attachment with your 230. I have done it, but it's not that great. It "worked" on lighter material. I don't know that it will work leather.

 Mine is running a size 19 needle with V92 thread, and that's a little heavy. Now that I have an Adler 167 GK373,  I'll set up my Consew for lighter thread, and needle. I like the advice to use V69 thread, with a size 16, or 17. Mine can be problematic at times with heavier thread. You'll also get more thread on the bobbin.

You really want that servo motor. I guarantee that it will not be wasted money. It can be adapted to just about any machine of this type and class, so if you do get a true walking foot machine down the line, you just swap it over. The clutch you currently have on your machine is difficult to control and feather for low speed operation, and if your foot moves just a few millimeters, that machine will be off to the races. I believe that the specs for the machines are upward of 3500 stiches per minute. Mine does not currently have a servo motor, but it will be getting one soon. There could be an issue with servo motors installed on this machine. The oil pump needs rpm's to get the oil pumping to the top of the machines. The bottom of the machine has a system of wicks that keep parts lubricated, but the top needs that pumped oil. I think with mine I'll just have to periodically run it at higher RPM's to get the oil pumping to the top.

Edited January 22, 2024 by Silkcut

[lilbax]

On 1/22/2024 at 6:53 AM, Silkcut said:

The 230 is a nice machine, and given what you state you want to do with it, should be capable of handling it. 2-4mm of leather isn't going to give it trouble. I have a Consew 230, with reverse. I don't know if mine is exactly the same as yours though. No where on mine is an "R1" designation?? These are high speed garment machines and can really spit some material out the backside. They're also good with lighter canvas and polypropolene covers, like on temporary buildings. You might get the idea to try and use a  walking foot attachment with your 230. I have done it, but it's not that great. It "worked" on lighter material. I don't know that it will work leather.

 Mine is running a size 19 needle with V92 thread, and that's a little heavy. Now that I have an Adler 167 GK373,  I'll set up my Consew for lighter thread, and needle. I like the advice to use V69 thread, with a size 16, or 17. Mine can be problematic at times with heavier thread. You'll also get more thread on the bobbin.

You really want that servo motor. I guarantee that it will not be wasted money. It can be adapted to just about any machine of this type and class, so if you do get a true walking foot machine down the line, you just swap it over. The clutch you currently have on your machine is difficult to control and feather for low speed operation, and if your foot moves just a few millimeters, that machine will be off to the races. I believe that the specs for the machines are upward of 3500 stiches per minute. Mine does not currently have a servo motor, but it will be getting one soon. There could be an issue with servo motors installed on this machine. The oil pump needs rpm's to get the oil pumping to the top of the machines. The bottom of the machine has a system of wicks that keep parts lubricated, but the top needs that pumped oil. I think with mine I'll just have to periodically run it at higher RPM's to get the oil pumping to the top.

That’s great advice. I’m a bit nervous on getting a servo but depending on where you press on the foot plate the machine can go wild. Showing it down will help greatly. I ran some 2mm vegetan and it ran well. The thread is the only thing I’d like to eee how that helps. Thank you for all the advice. 

[dikman]

Nothing to be nervous about, just get it, you won't regret it. Not difficult to fit, the hardest part is usually sorting out the belt length needed, if you're lucky the existing belt might still fit.

[lilbax]

18 hours ago, lilbax said:

That’s great advice. I’m a bit nervous on getting a servo but depending on where you press on the foot plate the machine can go wild. Showing it down will help greatly. I ran some 2mm vegetan and it ran well. The thread is the only thing I’d like to eee how that helps. Thank you for all the advice. 

 

6 hours ago, dikman said:

Nothing to be nervous about, just get it, you won't regret it. Not difficult to fit, the hardest part is usually sorting out the belt length needed, if you're lucky the existing belt might still fit.

Thank you. I’m pretty excited to try this out. The way it was set up with basic fabric thread it ran through 2.3mm leather without a problem. Control is the issue so that controller will be necessary. 
 

Previous advice was to get size v69 thread with a size 16 or 17. (What does the 16/17 refer to?) What size of needle do I need? 
 

If you can explain the differences in sizes of needles or threads like I’m in 3rd grade that would be super helpful. I keep googling things and I’m not sure I understand sizing on needles or threads. Also I’m not sure what size my current needle is  

Here’s some other recommendations I’ve been given. What’s your thoughts?
 

On my immediate grab list will be:

Thread 69 text/thread

Needles 135x5 or 135x 16/17 size  

Heavy Tooth dog and needle plate  

Roller presser foot

Edited January 29, 2024 by lilbax
Clarification