Consew 206rb-5

[DieselTech]

Guys & gals I'm wondering if any of you use a Consew 206rb-5 sewing machine for leather work? 

What would be the best way to have it setup?  I was looking at having the 1hp brushless servo motor installed with a 60mm pulley & needle positioning system. 

Will that make it slow enough to control or should I get a speed reducer with it as well.

Will it be a reliable machine setup with 138 thread size? Could you possibly run 207 thread thru that machine & get a reliable running machine? 

What presser feet & accessories should a person get? For wallets & belt type work? Drop down guide for sure.

I'm wondering if this machine would get me by till I can get my cobra class 4? Or should I just wait & purchase the cobra class 4. Or would it be better to have both the Cobra class 4 & a Consew 206rb-5 sewing machines? 

Thanks any & all help will be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks. 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, DieselTech said:

I was looking at having the 1hp brushless servo motor installed with a 60mm pulley & needle positioning system. 

The 1 hp brushless servo motor to my mind a 735 (1hp) watt would work nicely as a lot of us run 550 watt servo's on this class of machine. I would suggest going with a smaller servo motor pulley. It will reduce the speed. Example a 60mm pulley on the servo motor at 100 rpm's with a 100mm sewing machine pulley. The 100mm sewing machine pulley speed will be 60 rpm's. Reducing the size of the servo motor pulley to 40mm will reduce the speed down to 40 rpm's.

The most important question is how many internal coils does the 1hp servo motor have??? The less expensive brushless servo motors have 6 internal coils, mid grade have 9 internal coils and the better ones have 12 internal coils. The more coils the better the startup torque.

The next important question is what is the startup speed of the 1 hp motor, 100 or 500 rpm's???

Some people like the needle positioning feature and others not so much. Either way most of the brushless servo motors will NOT work with a speed reducer.

1 hour ago, DieselTech said:

Will it be a reliable machine setup with 138 thread size? Could you possibly run 207 thread thru that machine & get a reliable running machine? 

This will depend on how thick / tough the material you are sewing is going to be. In this class of machine they are usually rated for V138 with a top thread and in the bobbin. Some will run V207 top and bobbin but once again it depends how thick / tough the material is.

1 hour ago, DieselTech said:

Drop down guide for sure.

Why?? Some people like them and others not so much. I do have a drop down guide but I didn't like it so it lives in my "special" box somewhere. 

1 hour ago, DieselTech said:

I'm wondering if this machine would get me by till I can get my cobra class 4? Or should I just wait & purchase the cobra class 4. Or would it be better to have both the Cobra class 4 & a Consew 206rb-5 sewing machines? 

Having a flatbed is always nice but it also depends on what you are mostly going to sew. If you are mostly going to sew close to or over the 3/8" thickness or use v207 or larger thread go with a Class 441 machine as a primary machine and a used upholstery class flatbed machine or vise versa. Another option is go with a Class 441 and the modified needle plates that a couple of members make.

Out of curiosity why the Cobra 4???

kgg

[DieselTech]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

The 1 hp brushless servo motor to my mind a 735 (1hp) watt would work nicely as a lot of us run 550 watt servo's on this class of machine. I would suggest going with a smaller servo motor pulley. It will reduce the speed. Example a 60mm pulley on the servo motor at 100 rpm's with a 100mm sewing machine pulley. The 100mm sewing machine pulley speed will be 60 rpm's. Reducing the size of the servo motor pulley to 40mm will reduce the speed down to 40 rpm's.

The most important question is how many internal coils does the 1hp servo motor have??? The less expensive brushless servo motors have 6 internal coils, mid grade have 9 internal coils and the better ones have 12 internal coils. The more coils the better the startup torque.

The next important question is what is the startup speed of the 1 hp motor, 100 or 500 rpm's???

Some people like the needle positioning feature and others not so much. Either way most of the brushless servo motors will NOT work with a speed reducer.

This will depend on how thick / tough the material you are sewing is going to be. In this class of machine they are usually rated for V138 with a top thread and in the bobbin. Some will run V207 top and bobbin but once again it depends how thick / tough the material is.

Why?? Some people like them and others not so much. I do have a drop down guide but I didn't like it so it lives in my "special" box somewhere. 

Having a flatbed is always nice but it also depends on what you are mostly going to sew. If you are mostly going to sew close to or over the 3/8" thickness or use v207 or larger thread go with a Class 441 machine as a primary machine and a used upholstery class flatbed machine or vise versa. Another option is go with a Class 441 and the modified needle plates that a couple of members make.

Out of curiosity why the Cobra 4???

kgg

Thanks kgg on the lengthy informative write up. I appreciate your time & knowledge. Lol I'm kinda like the blind leading the blind at this point. 

The only reason I was going to buy a cobra class 4 was of all the accessories offered for it.  Also because it seems to be the go to machine for most professionals. 

Plus I think I will need a cobra class 4 for making pistol holsters & i believe that machine will run 346 thread. 

I'm just trying to get a small shop up & running & debating which is going to be the way for me to go as of now. I got the money now to buy a Cobra class 4, but thought the Consew 206rb-5 might be a better machine to sew my wallets & belts on.

I have been saddle stitching everything by hand & sew everything with 346 thread & like the looks of that thread size.  Maybe it's way overkill for wallets & belts. 

I thought maybe I should get the consew 206rb-5 first & then save back up for the Cobra class 4. 

If there is a better machine for less money I'm all about that too. I've talked with Patrick1 about buying all the extra presser feet, feed dogs & plates for the cobra class 4 to be able to sew lighter projects with. 

Do you got any recommendations or words of wisdom? I will be more than happy to listen & here yours thoughts. 

Thanks.

[kgg]

 

3 hours ago, DieselTech said:

I got the money now to buy a Cobra class 4, but thought the Consew 206rb-5 might be a better machine to sew my wallets & belts on.

If you end goal is for a class 441 machine buy the presser feet / feed dogs / needle plates for lighter items and purchase / make a flatbed table attachment.

3 hours ago, DieselTech said:

The only reason I was going to buy a cobra class 4 was of all the accessories offered for it. 

Purchase a machine from whom you feel will provide the best after sale service. In the US the popular 441 clones are Cowboy 4500 and Cobra Class 4 in Canada you have Techsew 5100 and Kobe TSC-441, all of which are basically the same machine with different name tag but able to take the same accessories. They are all essentially cloned after the Juki TSC-441 however the Juki will set you back 10K.

3 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Plus I think I will need a cobra class 4 for making pistol holsters & i believe that machine will run 346 thread. 

Yes you will need a class 411 machine for holsters and all the class 441 machines will take up to V415.

3 hours ago, DieselTech said:

Do you got any recommendations

Most of the class 441 machines are mounted on the pedestal style tables and probably operated while in a standing position. The major consideration with this style of stand is the possibility it being more prone to being able to be tipped over if struck the wrong way. So consider your particular situation and whether you are going to sew stood up or sat down. I choose to go with a more conventional style stand and modify it as I have dogs and when they get rough housing you never know. When you get your machine have a second person help as these are heavy buggers that are nose heavy and clumsy to handle.

kgg

[DieselTech]

12 minutes ago, kgg said:

 

If you end goal is for a class 441 machine buy the presser feet / feed dogs / needle plates for lighter items and purchase / make a flatbed table attachment.

Purchase a machine from whom you feel will provide the best after sale service. In the US the popular 441 clones are Cowboy 4500 and Cobra Class 4 in Canada you have Techsew 5100 and Kobe TSC-441, all of which are basically the same machine with different name tag but able to take the same accessories. They are all essentially cloned after the Juki TSC-441 however the Juki will set you back 10K.

Yes you will need a class 411 machine for holsters and all the class 441 machines will take up to V415.

Most of the class 441 machines are mounted on the pedestal style tables and probably operated while in a standing position. The major consideration with this style of stand is the possibility it being more prone to being able to be tipped over if struck the wrong way. So consider your particular situation and whether you are going to sew stood up or sat down. I choose to go with a more conventional style stand and modify it as I have dogs and when they get rough housing you never know. When you get your machine have a second person help as these are heavy buggers that are nose heavy and clumsy to handle.

kgg

Thanks kgg, Do you by chance know what a cobra class 4 weighs? I read somewhere they weigh 600lbs, do you know if this is true? 

I will just stick to my original thought/plan & order the class 4 machine. 

Thanks I appreciate you helping me out. 

[kgg]

24 minutes ago, DieselTech said:

I read somewhere they weigh 600lbs, do you know if this is true? 

Just like the rest of the 441's the head weighs about 125 lbs. Assembled the complete unit should weight about 300 or so pounds.

kgg

[DieselTech]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

Just like the rest of the 441's the head weighs about 125 lbs. Assembled the complete unit should weight about 300 or so pounds.

kgg

Ok thanks. 

[JLSleather]

346 is great .. for pulling your truck out the ditch and snow

I like 277 for holsters, and often use it on belts when they're meant to be "matching".   For a belt, like a belt, I like 207 thread is more than plenty.

The consew 206 is a reliable little machine, sews VERY well with thread size from 42 to 138.  I got mine to do 207 now and then, but usually not.  I had one of these machines, BIG mistake letting go of it.

I used mine for everything from wallet liners (like 1.5 oz chrome tanned leather) to zipper gussets (4/5 oz veg cowhide with zipper tape) to the full wallets (3/4 oz veg cow with multiple layers of lining leather).  All the way down to 42 thread for some liners, 69 thread for others, and 138 to sew the wallet together.

AND, I ocassionally "cheated" when doing a holster project.  Without going into the "why" of it all,  SOME projects I wanted HOLES but not SEWN WITH THREAD just yet.  So I rubber cement the piece together, turn OFF the machine, and HAND CRANK the wheel to "poke" the holes.  Keeps em aligned and evenly spaced.  Then went back and HAND SEW the thing together with heavier thread like a 277.  No time right now to detail all of that, but sometimes I want it held together but not YET sewn.

For great info on ALL of this... the consew (or equivalent) AND the '441' machine, contact Bob.  He'll steer ya right

https://www.tolindsewmach.com/   

866-362-7397

[DieselTech]

1 hour ago, JLSleather said:

346 is great .. for pulling your truck out the ditch and snow

I like 277 for holsters, and often use it on belts when they're meant to be "matching".   For a belt, like a belt, I like 207 thread is more than plenty.

The consew 206 is a reliable little machine, sews VERY well with thread size from 42 to 138.  I got mine to do 207 now and then, but usually not.  I had one of these machines, BIG mistake letting go of it.

I used mine for everything from wallet liners (like 1.5 oz chrome tanned leather) to zipper gussets (4/5 oz veg cowhide with zipper tape) to the full wallets (3/4 oz veg cow with multiple layers of lining leather).  All the way down to 42 thread for some liners, 69 thread for others, and 138 to sew the wallet together.

AND, I ocassionally "cheated" when doing a holster project.  Without going into the "why" of it all,  SOME projects I wanted HOLES but not SEWN WITH THREAD just yet.  So I rubber cement the piece together, turn OFF the machine, and HAND CRANK the wheel to "poke" the holes.  Keeps em aligned and evenly spaced.  Then went back and HAND SEW the thing together with heavier thread like a 277.  No time right now to detail all of that, but sometimes I want it held together but not YET sewn.

For great info on ALL of this... the consew (or equivalent) AND the '441' machine, contact Bob.  He'll steer ya right

https://www.tolindsewmach.com/   

866-362-7397

Thanks for the info. I'm going to eventually buy a consew 206rb-5 it seems from all I hear a good machine. 

Yeah my next adventure is going to be making holsters. I've made lots of 6 shooter holsters, but want to get into vacuum formed friction fit auto holsters. 

Yeah I probably am using way overkill on my thread choices. I been reading about stitch length versus thread size & I'm way off from what most people use. 

I got more to learn for sure. Lol as long as I dont sew my hand to my project I'll be ok. 

Thanks again. I sure enjoy seeing your holster work. 

[JLSleather]

2 hours ago, DieselTech said:

 

Yeah my next adventure is going to be making holsters. I've made lots of 6 shooter holsters, but want to get into vacuum formed friction fit auto holsters. 

Are you personally carrying?  No need to post here - kinda defeats the purpose of "concealed" - but send me a message with your model if I have a pattern I'll send it, first one free

 

[dikman]

Once someone mentions sewing holsters then a 441-class is the obvious choice, plus by using a modified needle plate and feed dog setup it will be far more versatile, capable of comfortably sewing down to #138 thread and lighter materials. BUT it won't do everything, you will find an upholstery-class machine (like the Consew) will be very useful to have too. Between the two machines you will be able to sew most things.

If you decide you want to saddle-stitch a holster, then like JLS said the big machine will allow you to quickly pre-punch your stitch holes, giving you even spacing.

[JLSleather]

MOST of my holsters are 277 thread, with a 24 needle (with an LL point), and 6 stitches per inch.  A few pics here, just for reference.

 207 thread, #23 LR point needle, 6 per inch

#69 thread, #18 needle (on the consew 206), 9 per inch

 277 thread, #24 LL point, 6 spi

 Zoomed in detail on Sig P938 holster - natural leather with natural thread, pic says the rest.

[DieselTech]

11 minutes ago, dikman said:

Once someone mentions sewing holsters then a 441-class is the obvious choice, plus by using a modified needle plate and feed dog setup it will be far more versatile, capable of comfortably sewing down to #138 thread and lighter materials. BUT it won't do everything, you will find an upholstery-class machine (like the Consew) will be very useful to have too. Between the two machines you will be able to sew most things.

If you decide you want to saddle-stitch a holster, then like JLS said the big machine will allow you to quickly pre-punch your stitch holes, giving you even spacing.

Thanks. Yeah I decided to get the cobra class 4 1st, but a am going to buy me a 206rb-5 after I acquire my play money back from the Cobra purchase. 

[JLSleather]

14 minutes ago, dikman said:

If you decide you want to saddle-stitch a holster, then like JLS said the big machine will allow you to quickly pre-punch your stitch holes, giving you even spacing.

AND ... you can also "pre-punch" on the smaller machine - just end up with smaller holes (which likely doesn't matter).  Incidentaly, on VERY heavy projects, I have been known to put a large diamond point needle in the drill press and "poke" the holes that way.  Leave the spindle off, make sure your diamond point is oriented correctly, and use an overstitch wheel or similar to set even spacing.

I used the pic of the little purple Sig holster for a reason.  This one shows one case where I didn't want the parts sewn "just yet".  The stiffener panel is sewn on as usual.  Then the holster is folded into position, marked, and sanded for evenness.  BUT... tehn the holster is "poked" around the outside edge for stitching, without thread. This is done because that holster is OPEN ENDED.  It is fully lined (with natural cowhide) and incorporates a tensioner screw so she can set her own ease of removal (for this purse gun).  Thus, it's sewn together ONLY in the little "rectangle" area to the right of the pistol and under the grip. Without the long version, lets just say this was the only way to do this and keep the stitching continuous.

Edited January 21 by JLSleather
pic

[DieselTech]

10 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

MOST of my holsters are 277 thread, with a 24 needle (with an LL point), and 6 stitches per inch.  A few pics here, just for reference.

 207 thread, #23 LR point needle, 6 per inch

#69 thread, #18 needle (on the consew 206), 9 per inch

 277 thread, #24 LL point, 6 spi

 Zoomed in detail on Sig P938 holster - natural leather with natural thread, pic says the rest.

Thanks for sharing your work. Beautiful work I must say. What is the LL needles? Are they special shaped or something? 

Thanks. 

[JLSleather]

4 minutes ago, DieselTech said:

What is the LL needles? Are they special shaped or something?

Well, yeah

The point is 'twisted" the other way from the "LR" needles, and not the same as the (very popular) "D" or "S" needle.  I got a pic here sumares...

RED arrow shows direction of sewing, meaning the way it sits here is the way it went in the machine, top of the pic away from you.  These are sewn with the SAME size thread and the SAME 6 stitches per inch. 

Done this way to show the difference in teh LOOK of the finished project.  I LIKE the very straight, very tight results from teh LL point.  The LR point tends to be less deep, and has that angled, almost 'lacey" look I've always found a bit "girly".  The belt above with the official Colt buckle set was FOR a girl, so. ... there's that

Note how much deeper the stitch is pulled on the LL, even though no groove was made and the tension was not changed.

Somewhere around here there's a whole thing about needle geometry.. see kin I find it....

[JLSleather]

Schmetz leather-needles.pdf

this is jsut one brand, but you get the idea.

Edited January 21 by JLSleather

[DieselTech]

5 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

Well, yeah

The point is 'twisted" the other way from the "LR" needles, and not the same as the (very popular) "D" or "S" needle.  I got a pic here sumares...

RED arrow shows direction of sewing, meaning the way it sits here is the way it went in the machine, top of the pic away from you.  These are sewn with the SAME size thread and the SAME 6 stitches per inch. 

Done this way to show the difference in teh LOOK of the finished project.  I LIKE the very straight, very tight results from teh LL point.  The LR point tends to be less deep, and has that angled, almost 'lacey" look I've always found a bit "girly".  The belt above with the official Colt buckle set was FOR a girl, so. ... there's that

Note how much deeper the stitch is pulled on the LL, even though no groove was made and the tension was not changed.

Somewhere around here there's a whole thing about needle geometry.. see kin I find it....

Thanks I appreciate it. I cant believe needles make that big of difference in stitch looks. 

That really opens my eyes up a bit. 

[Gump]

Why not have the best of both worlds and get a Consew or similar cylinder arm machine with removable flatbed attachment. I have both a 206RB3 and a 227R cylinder arm and I use the cylinder arm for most lighter sewing, wallets bags etc. It is much easier to work with the cyl. arm machine, more space and room to manuever. I have a servo with needle positioning, and it won't work with speed reducers, so I am set up so I can bypass my speed reducer for high speed commercial sewing with needle positioning on.

[fasn8ya]

30 minutes ago, Gump said:

Why not have the best of both worlds and get a Consew or similar cylinder arm machine with removable flatbed attachment. I have both a 206RB3 and a 227R cylinder arm and I use the cylinder arm for most lighter sewing, wallets bags etc. It is much easier to work with the cyl. arm machine, more space and room to manuever. I have a servo with needle positioning, and it won't work with speed reducers, so I am set up so I can bypass my speed reducer for high speed commercial sewing with needle positioning on.

I have needle positioner on my machines with brushless servo motors and  speed reducers and they work just fine.  Im running a class 4, cobra 5510 and a techsew 2750 all have speed reducer pullies installed under the table. Doesn't affect the needle positioner at all. I wonder is it the brand you have or something. I just bought the cheap needle positioner on amazon and installed myself.  Another thing I always hear is that if you have a cobra and don't include the needle positioner with initial purchase you will have to buy a new motor. That wasn't true for me either . My moter controller had the buttons for needle up and down so I figured I would buy one positioner and just see if it would work  and it did. Ive found most of the accessories sold by the big companies are way over priced . They are getting them from China just like you can and install it yourself.