Stitch strength heresy - Lock vs Saddle

[toxo]

A bit of a useless debate IMO and one that doesn't seem to be taking usage into account. I've never known a thread that simply holds two pieces of leather together to break no matter how it's sewn (bonded polyester/nylon). Can you snap a piece of V69 with your hands? If you can you have thick skin. Thread used under high stress conditions is different and is usually sewn inside a channel to avoid abrasion.

As dikman said, I think a certain amount of ego comes from the S/S camp but you can say that about quite a lot of leathercraft and there's nothing wrong with it as long as it's not part of a strength debate.

[fredk]

You are forgetting breakage due to abrasion on the thread. In my history group I had experience of that. The chaps used to do several very active  live steel fight displays during a day. I had shoes to resew/repair. The stitching holding the soles to the vamp often got abraded until they broke. On those made by one 'expert' and hand sewn using saddle stitch the sole came loose and I could quickly repair it on the spot and have the owner back into the fight. Those sewn by another 'expert' when the thread broke most of the sole came away from the vamp*. A repair was not possible as quickly.

* on one occasion the sole came away, flapping loose during a fight causing the owner to miss his footing. Only the fighters' skills stopped there being a bad incident

[Dwight]

Everyone has a  two arm pits . . . as well as a couple of opinions . . . and depending on the circumstances . . . they all stink.

But in this debate . . . the saddle stitch will always be the better route . . . simply because even when one thread breaks . . . the other "may" still hold . . . any "non" saddle stitch does not have that backup.

If the saddle stitch is done correctly with an overhand knot being tied in every hole . . . it is not only very time consuming . . . but it is also much stronger than any of the others.

To say differently is only posting an ugly and stinky opinion . . . because it simply is a statement that does not hold water.

Anyone with two pieces of leather . . . some thread . . . and two needles . . . can do the saddle stitch . . . and any or all others . . . and then put them all to a series of beat down tests . . . the saddle stitch will be the last one to give away . . . and that goes double if the thread was both waxed and the overhand knot tied at each stitch hole.

May God bless,

Dwight

[AlZilla]

15 minutes ago, Dwight said:

But in this debate . . . the saddle stitch will always be the better route . . . simply because even when one thread breaks . . . the other "may" still hold . . . any "non" saddle stitch does not have that backup.

However, if I have 2 stitch lines of equal length, the same spi and the same strength of thread, they have the same breaking breaking strength.

I can see the argument that the saddle stitch might be more durable in the face of 1 broken thread. But 2 seams of the same length, same thread, same SPI and length should be equally strong.

I'm not campaigning against the saddle stitch. I just don't see the persistent argument that it's "stronger". I think it's the same.