Singer 29K72 Stitch Length Problem

[Hidalgo]

Recently obtained a Singer 29K72. All appears to work well except the length of stitch adjustment.

Even though I move the stitch regulator as far down as possible so that the point of the arrow is below

the 5 stitch mark, the machine stitches at 7 to 8 stitches per inch.

Moving the regulator up to the 7 to 8 stitches per inch position results in stitches on top of each other.

Something somewhere is out of spec.

I have a 16 page Service manual for the machine but can find no other stitch length adjustment information.

Really need it to do bigger stitches so any advice would be gratefully received.

Peter

[catskin]

Sounds to me like it is worn bad in the track that the piece runs in above the foot runs in.Plus bits of wear other places that adds up.

If you look up into the ring that you turn to change the direction you are sewing you will likely see that there is slack. You will likely need new parts or build up and refit the worn ones. I believe these machines only do about 6 stiches / inch when new.

Recently obtained a Singer 29K72. All appears to work well except the length of stitch adjustment.

Even though I move the stitch regulator as far down as possible so that the point of the arrow is below

the 5 stitch mark, the machine stitches at 7 to 8 stitches per inch.

Moving the regulator up to the 7 to 8 stitches per inch position results in stitches on top of each other.

Something somewhere is out of spec.

I have a 16 page Service manual for the machine but can find no other stitch length adjustment information.

Really need it to do bigger stitches so any advice would be gratefully received.

Peter

[Wizcrafts]

A mint condition Singer patcher is lucky to sew 5 stitches per inch; and only in relatively thin leather. I get 5/inch maximum when sewing under 8 ounces. After 8 ounces it begins to decline fast. The only way to get long stitches at 1/4" is to help the material, by pulling it behind the foot.

There are some adjustments that affect stitch length. The lift of the foot can reduce your maximum length. I set my foot to maximum lift, always. This is not what the manual recommends, but it works for me. If your machine has a long tension spring on the back, the sliding puck near the front end controls the lift. Move it all the way towards the back, where the notch is in the metal. That is your maximum lift location. If the machine uses a sliding metal lever and block with L-M-H engraved, on the back of the head, loosen the wing-nut and move the lever forward, to the H position. The puck at the back should just be out of contact with the lever protruding from the rear of the head, which lifts to foot as the machine rotates. If there is too much clearance before the lever engages, foot lift and stitch length will suffer. Adjust as necessary.

You do need sufficient pressure on the foot to pull the material. Tighten the spring a bit and see if this helps.

Old patchers tend to wear out under the head, in the ring that causes the foot to mover forward and backward. See how much slack there is when you rotate the machine to lift the foot, then push and pull on the foot. Any motion beyond about 1/16" will limit your maximum stitch length. At 1/8" free motion, the machine is shot and the mechanism needs replaced or rebuilt.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Wizcrafts

[Hidalgo]

A big thank you for your help & advice. It's age & wear by the looks of it.

Studying the parts manual now.

Peter

[spurdude101]

hello, I had a similar problem. replaced what is called in the parts list a "bell crank" $28.00 part and $400.00 labor!. but thats my story. a "GOOD " shop should be able to do the job for $125.00 total.

[Wizcrafts]

If the motion feed crank has a worn down feed puck, you can braze bronze onto it, then shape it with a file, then buff it to a polished finish. If you take your time and get the clearance and ends shaped just loose enough to allow the crank to turn 360 degrees, you will get the maximum stitch length possible (~5/inch). I did this to two Singer patchers and both gave 5 stitches per inch after the bronze build up job.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Wizcrafts

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

As Wiz suggests, the 29k is a machine that a handy user can muck about with.

If you are prepared to do the work yourself you can build up parts or look for a reputable repairer who has good second hand parts available. Plenty of cheap Chinese parts are also out there. They may fit, or may not.

[DougVL]

Go look for "Ken Jer­rems’ 29K13 Restoration" on the page at

http://alasdair.muckart.net/sm/industrial/singerpatchers/

and read "MY FIRST SINGER 29K13".

Ken rebuilt the end of his bellcrank, and described the process with pictures. I have the same feed length problem and intend to try the repair as well. Or buy a new bellcrank for $28, but finding the source is the hard part.

DougVL

Recently obtained a Singer 29K72. All appears to work well except the length of stitch adjustment.

Even though I move the stitch regulator as far down as possible so that the point of the arrow is below

the 5 stitch mark, the machine stitches at 7 to 8 stitches per inch.

Moving the regulator up to the 7 to 8 stitches per inch position results in stitches on top of each other.

Something somewhere is out of spec.

I have a 16 page Service manual for the machine but can find no other stitch length adjustment information.

Really need it to do bigger stitches so any advice would be gratefully received.

Peter

[DougVL]

[edit] It turns out that the links on the site I gave do not work.

This description is there, though:

"Ken Jer­rems in Aus­tralia wrote a great doc­u­ment detail­ing his res­tor­a­tion of a 29k13 which he has given me per­mis­sion to host here since the needlebar.org site where it was ori­gin­ally hos­ted is off-​line to non sub­scribers nowadays. It includes engin­eer­ing draw­ings of the shims he made to tighten up the feed mech­an­ism and an excel­lent descrip­tion of the oper­a­tion of the walk­ing foot mech­an­ism on these machines."

The original article by Ken is still available at "NEEDLEBAR MAIN SITE INDEX" at

http://needlebar.org/main~nb/~index.html - BUT you must sign up for membership (free) in order to get to that page. You can go to their forum page at http://needlebar.org/bb2/ to register.

Ken's article is in MS Word DOC format and is about 4 MB in size. It has many color pictures, and has drawings of feed parts, including one for fixing the feed length problem by making a "shim" to build up the worn part. You can get Microsoft's "Word Viewer" for free in order to read and print the article. That's what I did.

This article is VERY worthwhile for anyone who would like to do any refurbishing on a 29K series machine.

Go look for "Ken Jer­rems’ 29K13 Restoration" on the page at

http://alasdair.muckart.net/sm/industrial/singerpatchers/

and read "MY FIRST SINGER 29K13".

Ken rebuilt the end of his bellcrank, and described the process with pictures. I have the same feed length problem and intend to try the repair as well. Or buy a new bellcrank for $28, but finding the source is the hard part.

DougVL

Edited July 31, 2011 by DougVL

[amuckart]

Sorry the file links on my site are 404'ing at the moment. I'm having a fight with wordpress to make 'em work.

Try college sewing for the bell crank parts.

[Constabulary]

Sorry about pulling this old thread again but I actually have found a working link to the DOC file about the restoration of the Singer 29K13 in the Needlebar forum. Just for the case someone is interested in it:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fneedlebar.org%2Fmain%2Frestoration%2FSinger29K13.doc&ei=OTClU6nBKKWL0AXW64HQAQ&usg=AFQjCNEA0DvpI_cgnioBfZRNQbNTqgeKbQ&bvm=bv.69411363,d.d2k

So you can safe it on your PC

[SARK9]

Thanks for that link!

I don't have a 29K at the moment, but I fully expect one to follow me home at some point.

Yours turned out great, BTW!

-DC

[Ornito]

Sorry tu reup this old post...

I've just got a Singer 29k71 and it seems I have the same "problem" (no less than 7 stiches...)

Is there a way to disassemble the bell crank  without removing the whole head?

thanks in advance.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Ornito

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, Ornito said:

Sorry tu reup this old post...

I've just got a Singer 29k71 and it seems I have the same "problem" (no less than 7 stiches...)

Is there a way to disassemble the bell crank  without removing the whole head?

thanks in advance.

I normally remove the 4 screws securing the revolving head assemble, plus the needle clamp, then pull the head away from the arm and down. I suspect that you'll have to do this too. This gives you complete access to the parts inside the head. You'll just have to remove the presser foot and stitch length regulator, then unscrew two screws inside the bottom, and lift out the bell crank. Use bronze brazing rod to build up the little puck on the end of the crank, shape and polish it for a good fit without binding and put her back together.

[Ornito]

2 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I normally remove the 4 screws securing the revolving head assemble, plus the needle clamp, then pull the head away from the arm and down. I suspect that you'll have to do this too. This gives you complete access to the parts inside the head. You'll just have to remove the presser foot and stitch length regulator, then unscrew two screws inside the bottom, and lift out the bell crank. Use bronze brazing rod to build up the little puck on the end of the crank, shape and polish it for a good fit without binding and put her back together.

Thank you so much, Wiz.

I was hoping it could be done without removing the head....

[Wizcrafts]

10 hours ago, Ornito said:

Thank you so much, Wiz.

I was hoping it could be done without removing the head....

Why? Removing the 4 screws is almost effortless and takes about three minutes. You just need a long flat blade screwdriver to turn the screws out. Two are near the top and two near the bottom of the machine body and revolving head assembly. Remove the presser foot, regulator and needle clamp assembly, unscrew the 4 screws and the head can be pulled down and away. The needle bar will simply come out the top as you lower the head. There is no need to disconnect the needle bar from the top mechanism.

[Ornito]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

...There is no need to disconnect the needle bar from the top mechanism...

 

Thank you again, Wiz.

I didn't get it from the previous post.

 

[Ornito]

Sorry to bother again....

I'm getting some missing stitch...(here and there)

Could you kindly help me?

What's the problem origin and how I could fix it?

thanks in advance for any info provided.

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, Ornito said:

Sorry to bother again....

I'm getting some missing stitch...(here and there)

Could you kindly help me?

What's the problem origin and how I could fix it?

thanks in advance for any info provided.

I also own a Singer 29k71 and have done everything I am about to describe for you. You can view or download and save/printout the official Singer Service Manual and Parts List, here - for the 29k-71, 72 and 73. It will make everything below more understandable.

Before adjusting anything, make sure the needle is the correct system (29x3, 29x4, 135x16, or 135x17) and that it is all the way up in the mounting clamp, and that the scarf is on the dead right and the rib is on the dead left. Also, make sure the needle size is correct for the thread you are using. For most users, that equates to a #18 needle for #69 thread, or a #19 needle for #92 thread. Finally, make sure the thread is bonded and stays that way throughout the sewing cycle.

If all the above are positive, yet the machine skips stitches, there are only a few items left to check. First, make sure there is sufficient presser foot pressure to hold down the leather as the needle begins its ascent. If you see the leather lifting, screw down the pressure spring until it stops lifting with the needle. While you're at it, take a look at the thread on top and make sure it isn't binding, or coming out of the tensioners.

Another cause of skipped stitches could be the tape or glue holding layers together for sewing. I use titanium coated needles to help fend off problems caused by leather tape and contact glue.

If none of the above stops the skipped stitches, the machine is either marginally out of time, or the check spring is badly worn, or the gears in the bolt on gear box are very badly worn. The first step you take should be to slide open the throat plate and face it sideways, across the gear box, so you can see the hook and needle. Put a representative piece or pieces of leather (that are having skipped stitches) under the foot, lower the foot and slowly rotate the hand wheel in the forward direction (counterclockwise if on the end of the body; clockwise if on the right front). Observe the size and quality of the loop as the needle goes down, then raises up and stops. There should be a visible thread loop on the right side of the eye. The point of the hook should be about 1/8 inch away from the needle and loop. As you continue moving the hand wheel, that hook should move to the center of the needle and pick off the thread loop. Skipped stitches happen when something prevents a good loop from forming and staying intact until picked off.

If a loop forms  and holds, but the hook has passed the needle too soon, the timing needs to be retarded. If the hook is so far back that the needle and loop have moved up past it, the timing needs to be advanced. If the hook seems to be intersecting the needle at the proper time, but the loop has gone away, the check spring needs to be replaced. Timing is adjusted through a hole in the right front of the base of the machine. You'll need to loosen a nut on the back of the rack-to-down crank combination, then use a straight blade screwdriver to turn the eccentric screw one way or the other to get the hook in the best position to pick off the thread loop. Once you find that position, tighten up the locking nut to secure the timing.

If timing the hook doesn't stop the skipped stitches, there is either a lot of play in the gears in the gear box, or the check spring needs replaced. You can see how much wear is in those parts by holding the wheel in place and using you fingers to turn the hook one way and the other. There is bound to be some slack, but too much will create crazy timing. These racks and gears can be replaced with aftermarket parts, which will probably need a bit of tweaking to get a good fit with the least binding or slack.

I left the check spring replacement for the last item. This spring, which is inside the needle bar, above the needle mounting bracket, is tiny and has a paddle shape on the lower portion. The top is shaped like a T and has two tiny screws that secure it to the inside of the needle bar. You are going to have to remove the head again to see if this spring is the culprit. The spring eventually wears out and stops holding the thread in place, causing the loop to dissolve. Sometimes, you can bend the paddle end back in to get more life out of the check spring. Or not. If you've gone to the trouble of removing the barrel head, you might as well replace the spring.  Just make sure you set the tiny screws aside in the same right/left alignment as they came off. You should reinstall them in the exact same positions.

With the check spring off, examine the needle bar to see if a deep groove has been worn into the area where the paddle is supposed to squeeze the thread. If this has occurred, nothing you do about the spring will improve the situation. You would probably have to replace the entire needle bar to fix this.

Good luck with your repairs!

[Ornito]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

I also own a Singer 29k71 and have done everything I am about to describe for you. You can view or download and save/printout the official Singer Service Manual and Parts List, here - for the 29k-71, 72 and 73. It will make everything below more understandable.

Before adjusting anything, make sure the needle is the correct system (29x3, 29x4, 135x16, or 135x17) and that it is all the way up in the mounting clamp, and that the scarf is on the dead right and the rib is on the dead left. Also, make sure the needle size is correct for the thread you are using. For most users, that equates to a #18 needle for #69 thread, or a #19 needle for #92 thread. Finally, make sure the thread is bonded and stays that way throughout the sewing cycle.

If all the above are positive, yet the machine skips stitches, there are only a few items left to check. First, make sure there is sufficient presser foot pressure to hold down the leather as the needle begins its ascent. If you see the leather lifting, screw down the pressure spring until it stops lifting with the needle. While you're at it, take a look at the thread on top and make sure it isn't binding, or coming out of the tensioners.

Another cause of skipped stitches could be the tape or glue holding layers together for sewing. I use titanium coated needles to help fend off problems caused by leather tape and contact glue.

If none of the above stops the skipped stitches, the machine is either marginally out of time, or the check spring is badly worn, or the gears in the bolt on gear box are very badly worn. The first step you take should be to slide open the throat plate and face it sideways, across the gear box, so you can see the hook and needle. Put a representative piece or pieces of leather (that are having skipped stitches) under the foot, lower the foot and slowly rotate the hand wheel in the forward direction (counterclockwise if on the end of the body; clockwise if on the right front). Observe the size and quality of the loop as the needle goes down, then raises up and stops. There should be a visible thread loop on the right side of the eye. The point of the hook should be about 1/8 inch away from the needle and loop. As you continue moving the hand wheel, that hook should move to the center of the needle and pick off the thread loop. Skipped stitches happen when something prevents a good loop from forming and staying intact until picked off.

If a loop forms  and holds, but the hook has passed the needle too soon, the timing needs to be retarded. If the hook is so far back that the needle and loop have moved up past it, the timing needs to be advanced. If the hook seems to be intersecting the needle at the proper time, but the loop has gone away, the check spring needs to be replaced. Timing is adjusted through a hole in the right front of the base of the machine. You'll need to loosen a nut on the back of the rack-to-down crank combination, then use a straight blade screwdriver to turn the eccentric screw one way or the other to get the hook in the best position to pick off the thread loop. Once you find that position, tighten up the locking nut to secure the timing.

If timing the hook doesn't stop the skipped stitches, there is either a lot of play in the gears in the gear box, or the check spring needs replaced. You can see how much wear is in those parts by holding the wheel in place and using you fingers to turn the hook one way and the other. There is bound to be some slack, but too much will create crazy timing. These racks and gears can be replaced with aftermarket parts, which will probably need a bit of tweaking to get a good fit with the least binding or slack.

I left the check spring replacement for the last item. This spring, which is inside the needle bar, above the needle mounting bracket, is tiny and has a paddle shape on the lower portion. The top is shaped like a T and has two tiny screws that secure it to the inside of the needle bar. You are going to have to remove the head again to see if this spring is the culprit. The spring eventually wears out and stops holding the thread in place, causing the loop to dissolve. Sometimes, you can bend the paddle end back in to get more life out of the check spring. Or not. If you've gone to the trouble of removing the barrel head, you might as well replace the spring.  Just make sure you set the tiny screws aside in the same right/left alignment as they came off. You should reinstall them in the exact same positions.

With the check spring off, examine the needle bar to see if a deep groove has been worn into the area where the paddle is supposed to squeeze the thread. If this has occurred, nothing you do about the spring will improve the situation. You would probably have to replace the entire needle bar to fix this.

Good luck with your repairs!

Wiz, I have no more words to say Thank you so much !!

the machine is working good (except the 7 spi issue...) 

I tested it many times and with many different type of leather without any issue..

today I faced my first attempt on a real project and I proceeded with glueing the edges of the project....

I think you've got the problem:

"Another cause of skipped stitches could be the tape or glue holding layers together for sewing. I use titanium coated needles to help fend off problems caused by leather tape and contact"

In fact I prevously tryied with different (not glued) pieces of leather and not a single stitch was missed....

Do you have a suggestion for titanium coated needles? 

I'm using Schmetz  120/19 332 LR (29x4 R TW) and Amann Serafil Polyester #20

thanks again.

[Wizcrafts]

I usually buy Organ brand titanium coated, in walking foot System 135x16 and 17, on eBay. But, if you have an industrial sewing machine dealer nearby, call them and ask if they have or can get titanium coated needles in 135x16, or 29x4. Those are leather point systems. Round points would be systems 29x3 and 135x17. They really do make a big difference!

[Ornito]

Thanks a lot!

[Ornito]

16 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I usually buy Organ brand titanium coated, in walking foot System 135x16 and 17, on eBay. But, if you have an industrial sewing machine dealer nearby, call them and ask if they have or can get titanium coated needles in 135x16, or 29x4. Those are leather point systems. Round points would be systems 29x3 and 135x17. They really do make a big difference!

Wizard,

Just fyi I contacted the European Distributor, here is the answer:

"thanks a lot for your inquiry.
But DIX4LR 120/19 Titanium coated  LP coating is not in ORGAN production line.
 
Kind regards
Rudolf Rütters"

 

So, do you have more suggestion to avoid missing stitches caused by glued leather layers ?

(Using tape or different glue, or an alternative method ?)

thanks again for you help.

 

[Wizcrafts]

6 hours ago, Ornito said:

Wizard,

Just fyi I contacted the European Distributor, here is the answer:

"thanks a lot for your inquiry.
But DIX4LR 120/19 Titanium coated  LP coating is not in ORGAN production line.
 
Kind regards
Rudolf Rütters"

 

So, do you have more suggestion to avoid missing stitches caused by glued leather layers ?

(Using tape or different glue, or an alternative method ?)

thanks again for you help.

 

Here are the System 135x16 needles I have been buying from an eBay seller. They are Organ brand and most certainly titanium coated and leather point. They fit the 29k patchers perfectly.

[Ornito]

47 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

Here are the System 135x16 needles I have been buying from an eBay seller. They are Organ brand and most certainly titanium coated and leather point. They fit the 29k patchers perfectly.

Thank you !!!