Sewing Machine Decision?

[Wizcrafts]

I remember when I went in search of my first sewing machine. I was doing leathercraft for about one year, or less. I decided that I wanted to make a leather stage vest, with pockets and conchos. I bought the leather from Tandy when it went on sale, along with a vest pattern pack. Then I set out on a quest for a proper sewing machine to assemble this seeming simple project.

What followed was a true adventure down sewing machine lane! The first machine I bought was a slant needle Singer home machine. It was very good at breaking needles; that's all. I returned it a day later and got a refund. The dealer told me I needed an industrial sewing machine and gave me a phone number of a sewing machine shop he knew. I called and they told me they had just what I needed and it would only cost me $400, plus tax. I went there and came home with a Singer 96K40, with a motor and table. I had never seen such a big machine since I worked in my Dad's tailor shop, many years before.

I quickly discovered to my chagrin, that as solid as that machine was it wasn't going to sew my vest together. The leather tended to stitck to the pressor foot and drag, causing tiny stitches in many places, and skipped stitches in other places. I called the dealer again and told him what was happening. He told me that I needed a "walking foot machine." I went there and came home with a Singer 31-19 head, and a pair of table clamps in the holes on the back. This machine did get the vest sewn.

Since I had such great luck sewing the vest with the 31-19, I tried sewing a 8 oz hand stamped and waxed leather belt. Big Mistake: the stitch length varied all along the perimeter! I called the dealer and told him about the stitches varying in length and he told me that I really needed a real walking foot machine. Huh, said I? I soon learned that what I had was not a real walking foot machine, but was a snap foot machine, with a spring loaded outer foot that dragged back with the material, then snapped forward at the end of the stitch. It worked fine on heavy garment leather used to make a vest, but not so fine on a polished surface veg-tan belt.

The next year was spent acquiring and getting rid of various sewing machines, from both private and commercial sources. I finally got a Singer 111w155 and a Juki LU-563, both of which are true walking foot machines. Yes, they sewed belts, including double leather belts, but were limited to using #138 thread. I tried using #207, but it they had random trouble tensioning it. So, the quest continued, for a machine capable of sewing heavier thread into thicker leather.

When I bought a Singer 132K6 I thought my quest had ended, but I was wrong again. As big and impressive as that machine was it still slid over the top of polished stamped leather belts! The only way I got reliable consistent stitch length was to sew the projects before hand polishing them. Frustrating! It's only saving grace was the fact that it would sew with #346 thread. But, the varying stitch length caused serious visual problems.

I knew I needed a big machine to sew thick, or polished leather, with heavy thread, but had no idea what it might be. Chance solved my dilemma!

I have played music for a living since 1975 and this sewing stuff, a paying hobby, was happening in 1986. I happened to take a one week gig in a city in Canada, named Barrie. Good pay, nice enough room, decent food within walking distance. Also, Barrie was the home base of Tandy Leather Of Canada. I looked up the retail store at the headquarters and went to buy stuff. When I got there I saw that there was a huge warehouse behind the main showroom. I asked what they kept in there and the manager told me that in addition to kits, leather. lace, dyes and tools, all their machines lived there; machines used to punching (clickers) and sewing leather kits. So, I asked if I could have a quick tour. What followed changed my sewing life!

In the middle of the warehouse stood a sewing machine that was a tall I I was, and four times heavier! The name on the tag said "Union Lockstitch By Randall." In awe, I asked about what they made with this huge machine. The manager told me that they used to sew purses, carry bags, holster kit parts and harness straps with it. However, the fellow who knew how to work it had retired and nobody had any idea how it threaded, much less operated. I laughed and asked if they would consider selling it? He told me YES! I asked how much and he said $1500. I left a $100 deposit, then came back the next Monday, bought the machine, had their employees load it into my station wagon (disassembled off table) and drove it home!

I had the beast at home and threw a moving party to get it down to the basement, where my shop was. But, I had no idea how to work it. So, I called a friend who called a friend, that knew somebody who could probably help me. I called and spoke to Sam Freedman, owner of the famous Freedman Harness Company. He invited me over and handed me a photocopy of the manual for his Union Lockstitch machine. He took me to his machine. It was really old and dirty and hadn't been used in over 20 years. He had me clean it up and oil it, then thread it according to the manual he printed for me. Once I had it threaded he had me sew scrap leather with it, then a 6 foot long harness strap (free labor). Then he sold me all of his spare parts for the machine. These included 20 bobbins, all available pressor feet and throat plates, edge guides and hundreds of needles and awls, of all sizes ever made.

Once I understood how to thread and operate the Union Lockstitch Machine, I never looked back. I sewed all manner of heavy leather projects, including all kinds of pistol holsters, up to 3/4 inch thick, gun belts, weight belts, handcuff cases, briefcases, et al. Once set, the stitch length didn't vary, like it had done in the big Singer 132k6. It didn't care about thread sizes. Want to use #554? No problem! Wind some 554 onto a spare bobbin, thread the rest through the top path, change the needle to a #4 and the awl to a #5, clamp down and sew. If the next job was a 1/4" thick pancake holster, I changed to a #1.5 needle and #2 awl, changed the thread to #207, top and bottom and sewed it like butter.

I still kept a dozen other sewing machines, each of which was set-up do use a particular size needle and thread and do jobs best suited to their design. Alterations to hems, cuffs and arm holes were done on a cylinder arm Singer 153, using #69 or #92 thread, which it thrived upon. Garments were sewn on a Juki LU-563. Hats were sewn on roller foot post machines. Patches and zippers were installed on a Singer 29k Patcher. Cloth was sewn on the first machine I bought; the 96k40. For zig-zag work I bought a Pfaff zig-zag head. I just swapped out heads, in one table. Sometimes I had to move the knee lever a bit and maybe change the v-belt, but they all worked perfectly for the jobs they were designed to do.

So, in closing, you may be able to get a given machine to sew heavier or lighter than it was designed for, but it won't do so to perfection. As Bob Kovar mentioned, a 441 clone (Juki 441) can sew garment leather (I do this at work), but will be more likely to bend or break the overly long needles. The machine is designed to exert a lot of pressure to the thread, top and bottom, and to the pressor feet. The slot in the throat plate is huge, compared to a traditional walking foot machine. Soft or narrow leather may drop into the slot and hang a bit, before the equally huge feed dog pushes it up and moves it back. There are other machines that are better suited to thin and narrow work, which doesn't require thick thread. A leather shop really does need more than one machine. The types you need depend on the nature of the leather and how thick or thin it will be.

It is a fact that a Cowboy CB-227R can be set-up to sew almost 1/2 inch of leather, albeit with #138 thread tops. This is a good medium duty cylinder arm machine, which takes needles that are available in a multitude of sizes and point styles.The Singer 31 class that Bob mentioned and I had once, is great for sewing vests, garments and other flat work. It mounts into a 20" x 48" table and is usually equipped with a half horsepower motor.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Wizcrafts

[$$hobby]

heres my .02

i do my leatherwork as an expensive hobbie.

but ive bought/sold many machines and have probably paid for my current one several times.

this is what ive leared, but YMMV.

Buy as big/large a machine as you can afford. especially when it comes to what you are going to try to run under the foot. if you get one that can handle 1/2 inch of material, you will eventually find out you need 5/8". you wont now, but there WILL be a time.

if you dont know the ins/outs of a sewing machine and are just a "user" then find someone that can hold your hands and talk you thru it while youre TS/fixing the issue.

also, last hint.

you know what you want to make/sew, so bring the material w/you and do some demos on the material with the correct thread/needle setup. if its 1 layer, bring it and sew it. If its 5 layers 1/2" thick, then bring it and test sew it. You will find out real fast if the machine can handle it or not.

[KAYAK45]

Well Elboze, that just about does it on advice. You are now up to your Eyeballs with info.

I'll add my last thought to you.

I got real lucky, no..I listened to these good chaps.

First I got a great singer 31-15 and started to learn to sew. $75. for the head, $50 for a table w/motor and light and then added a Servpro motor. Value...Priceless. Love that little Singer.

It wasn't big enough for belts.

Next a great, great 111w155. Paid $250 complete and after a hard cleaning and oiling. Perfect walking foot machine.

It wasn't big enough for holsters.

Soooo!!. Next was a cowboy 4500.

It's big enough for anything.

Wouldn't be without a single one of those machines.

Good luck, go slow, and enjoy the search.

Kevin

[LeatherLegion]

I started with a Boss about 7 years ago for heavy work from Ryan Neel. Drove all the way the to pick it up ...about 6-7 hours away...Bought a Tacsew T111-155 type for light work..not the best machine out there but it paied for itself so i am happy. Just bought a Cowboy 4500 few mothts ago and although i am very happy with the machine(outperforms the Boss) and very happy with the sevice(Bob Kovar) i will never sell my Boss or my light duty machine . I would probably replace the T111-155 copy with a better machine but never be without one like it. Having different mahines for different jobs is great..saves time and aggravation.

I do leather work as a hobby !

[elboze]

Thank you all. It's very nice to have the knowledge of all you wonderful folks when you need it. There is so much information here that is priceless!!!!! Thanks again everyone good luck to all.

Lee

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

I go around to farm field days, markets and shows every weekend selling my little and crank machines and at least two or three times a week I get asked if it is a 'saddlery machine'. Short answer "NO", however, I have sold several to saddlers, upholsterers, motor trimmers, leather workers and all manner of other sewers. Why? It is another tool in their arsenal for doing odd jobs.

As everyone has been saying, there is no one machine that will do everything. If the budget stretches to a 441 clone then you have a very versatile machine but if you are really serious you will undoubtedly finish up with three or four or more.

[intentio]

Been reading this forum for a while and I *think* I know what kind of machine I want although my purposes might be served better with 2 as previously mentioned in this thread. My intention isn't to hijack this thread and hopefully my question is inline with what's being discussed. I am looking to sew leather accessories using leather as thin as 2-3oz thick leather but primarily work on bags and belts of varying thickness (~ 6oz - 16oz). I would like to eventually move to leather garments but that won't be for quite some time. Should I be looking at a 441 clone with an optional flatbed attachment or would this be overkill? Also, which is a good 411 clone I should be looking at? Please keep in mind I would like to find locally available replacement parts so that's why I am considering a 441 clone. Thanks!

Edited June 23, 2011 by intentio

[TwinOaks]

Intentio:

The advice is always "get as much machine as you can, and try to get more machine than you think you'll need". What you're describing might be doable on a 618 type machine....but it has some limitations inherent to a flatbed. If you were to go to the next step and go with a 441 clone, you have the option of flat or cylinder- which means bag work gets easier. The 441 clones can handle most of the common threads you'd use, and still have the option to get a little thicker if you ever needed to.

Any of the top suppliers would be a good choice, but some may disparage the others....hey, it's business. Pretty much, try to use the supplier listed on this site because they are setting up an industrial machine head specifically to sew leather. Things like DC servo motors and speed reducers make all the difference between a nice line of stitches and sewing yourself to your work. Yes, you could probably order components, but unless you're a sewing machine mechanic, you'll likely have some headaches. Just rely on the experience of the top 3 until you get used to your machine.....then start tinkering. In alphabetical order....Artisan, Cobra, and Cowboy (sold through Toledo Industrial).....they all have good products and reputations to back them.

[Art]

Hi Intentio,

What Mike says, and parts are rarely needed for the 441's, but in the event, any sewing machine repair can order up what you need from a half dozen different parts suppliers. The distributors for the 441 clones will get you whatever parts you need too. At the speeds we run 441s for leatherwork, you seldom break things outright, and shuttle hooks and bobbins are standard fare from any of the distributors.

Art

Been reading this forum for a while and I *think* I know what kind of machine I want although my purposes might be served better with 2 as previously mentioned in this thread. My intention isn't to hijack this thread and hopefully my question is inline with what's being discussed. I am looking to sew leather accessories using leather as thin as 2-3oz thick leather but primarily work on bags and belts of varying thickness (~ 6oz - 16oz). I would like to eventually move to leather garments but that won't be for quite some time. Should I be looking at a 441 clone with an optional flatbed attachment or would this be overkill? Also, which is a good 411 clone I should be looking at? Please keep in mind I would like to find locally available replacement parts so that's why I am considering a 441 clone. Thanks!

[intentio]

Thanks for the replies guys, I think this is finally to slowly sink in