copyright infringement?

[russinchico]

I know there are laws against it, but I have seen alot of stuff out there that I know is copy righted....and /or a trademark. I'm sure I could spend days reading stuff on the internet and get totally confused, I was more interrested in what was "acccepted" with the "leather Pros".

[Jordan]

Not sure I know what you mean, more info / examples?

[HorsehairBraider]

Yes, perhaps you could clarify? That would really help to see your point.

An artist's work is "copyrighted" as soon as they create it... this has been well upheld in law. If you are going to copy someone, you need to make your own significant creative changes. Otherwise you could be in trouble.

However there are only so many ways you can make a boat. Even so you can not (legally) slavishly copy someone else's boat. You have to have some originality. Personally I think this is only fair. But I would like to see your examples, to better understand what you mean. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree here.

[Peter Ellis]

I know there are laws against it, but I have seen alot of stuff out there that I know is copy righted....and /or a trademark. I'm sure I could spend days reading stuff on the internet and get totally confused, I was more interrested in what was "acccepted" with the "leather Pros".

As an example, if I want to make a dozen Mickey Mouse coasters and use them on my patio table, there's not a problem. If I want to make ten dozen and sell them, there's a very real problem. If I want to make and sell one dozen, there's a very real problem.

It's ok to copy a famous painting in the museum. It isn't ok to try and sell it as the real thing. It's probably not even ok to try and sell it as a copy - because the museum probably reserves that right.

Want to do trademark/copyrighted stuff to work up your skills, it's not a problem. Start distributing them and it can become a problem, rapidly.

And yes, there are lots of people out there breaking the law in this area. Don't get sucked into the trap that "everybody does it" - it isn't true about cheating on taxes either, and both can get one into serious legal troubles.

[David]

Lots of good straight info here. My real job is working as an illustrator for patent and trademark attorneys.

Some companies guard their marks very jealously. Others are lenient. Bottom line don't do it, it isn't worth the risk. If you get taken to court and found guilty of willful infringement, the court will asses damages and you will be fined 3 times that amount plus court costs.

Some of the companies that will sue at the drop of a hat.... or trademark

Harley Davidson, Coke, P&G, most alcohol and beer companies, Disney. Not a complete list but you get the idea.

The whole idea of leatherwork is to be creative.

David

[superchute]

well im not shere but was told if you buy the object from like Harly Davidson and then you put it on some that is ok. that is what dad duse for harly stuff for fokes. that way he did not make the decale or badge or some thing like that. He just made what it is on.

Russell

[cem]

well im not shere but was told if you buy the object from like Harly Davidson and then you put it on some that is ok. that is what dad duse for harly stuff for fokes. that way he did not make the decale or badge or some thing like that. He just made what it is on.

Russell

That becomes a grey area as well if it's only a few then it probably won't be a problem but if it's a significant quantity you would normally have to pay a licensing fee to the company whose emblem it is (This is how it is in Australia, could be different in other countries).

Clair

[David]

That becomes a grey area as well if it's only a few then it probably won't be a problem but if it's a significant quantity you would normally have to pay a licensing fee to the company whose emblem it is (This is how it is in Australia, could be different in other countries).

Clair

Russ,

That is not much of a grey area to me....he made an object and put a Harley emblem on it....yeah Harley made the emblem but putting it on something he made IMPLIED that it was an official Harley product. DONT DO IT. Good way to get in trouble.

If a customer asks for a Harley emblem on something, he better be from Harley Davidson. If he isn't from HD....politely decline the job or try to encourage him to be creative or let you be creative.... I do it all the time.

Unfortunately, there are many bikers out there who don't have a creative bone in their bodies. Beeze here on LW is an outstanding exception...as are many others...Shirley... etc. Mostly bikers want something they saw on Joe Schmo's bike. Show them some of your creative work....you can lead them where you want them to go.

Dave

[Art]

Hi Russ,

There are three different entities here, patent, copyright, trademark; all totally different and used to protect different things in different ways. It would be easier to tell us what you want to "knock off", and then we could tell you either why you can't do it, or how you can get around it, or that it isn't a problem. Patent and trademark are pretty well defined, copyright is an area that is sometimes used to protect a product and can be a little tricky. A more defined area is fraud, where you make something and say that is something else, e.g. if you make something that looks like a Hermes bag (to any degree of success) and say it is a Hermes bag, then that is fraud, whereas you make something that looks like a Hermes bag and say it is a Hermes knockoff, then that may be a copyright violation, whereas you make a bag that may or may not look like a Hermes bag but you never get their name into the process, well that is probably ok. If someone asks you if it is a Hermes bag, you say NO or "no, it is better than a Hermes bag", again you will probably be ok.

There were enough "whereas" in the above statement to help you understand that if you go about playing in a big company's sandbox, a bunch of lawyers are going to try and kick sand in your face. Some things you just can't help copying because there are only so many ways to invent the wheel, but put some of yourself into the process.

Art

I know there are laws against it, but I have seen alot of stuff out there that I know is copy righted....and /or a trademark. I'm sure I could spend days reading stuff on the internet and get totally confused, I was more interrested in what was "acccepted" with the "leather Pros".

[K-Man]

David:

You might want to talk to some of your patent/trademark attorneys with respect to your statement of: "...he made an object and put a Harley emblem on it....yeah Harley made the emblem but putting it on something he made IMPLIED that it was an official Harley product. DONT DO IT. Good way to get in trouble." There are legal ways to do that, so maybe your attorney friends can explain it to you.

Russ:

As some have mentioned already, it would be best to know to some extent what you're trying to recreate.

I've seen many examples here on leatherworker where folks have ignored the fact that they've infringed on a copyright or trademarked logos. It simply amazes me that one would do so. IMO, it reflects a great lack of integrity on the part of the artisan.

It's always best to consult with competent legal counsel if you really have a question about such issues. You can do some initial searches on the U.S. Patent/Trademark website that may or may not answer your basic questions.

Edited June 5, 2008 by K-Man