copyright infringement?

[Regis]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned the Orphan Works Act working its way through congress. As you know, there are politicians that favor lawyers ....therefore; things like this are possible. Listen to the video or read partical extract below.

Here is short exerpt from the text.

QUOTE:" FROM THE ILLUSTRATORS' PARTNERSHIP

The Orphan Works Act: Warning to the Public

Should the general public care about the Orphan Works Act?

Yes, because the effects of this bill will expose any citizen's visual images to infringement, including infringement for commercial purposes or distasteful uses.

Most people don't understand current copyright law. But under current law, they don't have to - the law itself protects them from not understanding it. Anything you create is considered your private property.

But under this amendment, all citizens would be required to understand that they must now take active steps - not to actually protect their work (because registries won't protect it) – but merely to preserve their right to sue an infringer in federal court (in case they ever find out they've been infringed in the first place). "

[David]

Hey K-Man,

There are certainly legal ways of putting a Harley made emblem on a product that you are making, getting agreements with Harley in advance is one sure way. But that didn't seem to be what was being discussed.

Unless I misunderstood the post, it seemed like the author believed that it was ok to put the emblem on anything, as long as Harley made the emblem.

Certainly Harley produces those window decals and as long as you are putting them on something that clearly isn't motorcycle related (like your car window) you have no problem, but if you begin putting them on saddlebags....or wallets or vests or jackets etc.....all of which Harley does license, you are going to have a problem.

As an aside, Harley formerly liscensed conchos with their emblem to Tandy, I believe, but they have discontinued that and are now guarding their intellectual property much more closely.

I agree totally with your statement :

"I've seen many examples here on leatherworker where folks have ignored the fact that they've infringed on a copyright or trademarked logos. It simply amazes me that one would do so. IMO, it reflects a great lack of integrity on the part of the artisan." In addition to the integrity issue I think it also reflects a lack of creativity.

Dave Theobald

Edited June 5, 2008 by David

[K-Man]

Yes, David, you are correct - license agreements are one way of putting a trademarked logo on a product. There are other legal ways to do it as well. Again, it's best to discuss such issues with legal counsel if there's a question in one's mind about it. And unless one is such legal counsel, one should be cautious about what advice they offer in that respect.

[russinchico]

If I by a Tandy cell phone case, tool it with one of their template designs and sell it, is that ok? If I use that same cell phone case "as" a template, use my own leather that I buy from Tandy can I tool it and sell it with my own carving on it? I guess the question is where is the line drawn. I could cut a peice of leather for a cell phone case of my own design, but there may be someone out there that has already created one and Patented that design. Or I may have drawn something, carved it, and later someone sees what I have created, and sue me. So, basically, I just unknowingly infringed on someones art?. Like I said before, I have seen many things out there selling that are VERY similar that could have been "stolen" or just a coincidence. I am fairly artistic, and have done some cool drawings that I could use for leather. With just starting out I have friends that want to buy some of the stuff I've made for practice peices and I want to be clear on what I can and can't do. Perhaps I should start reading up on the "legalities" of this stuff. One of the wallets I did for my son was a "Jackass insignia, I didn't sell it, but thats what my kid wanted on his wallet. That would be concidered wrong, even tho it wasn't sold? This is only a hobby for me, but if I can sell some of the stuff I do for practice I'd like to, unless it turns into a pain in the a**.

[russinchico]

I know there are laws against it, but I have seen alot of stuff out there that I know is copy righted....and /or a trademark. I'm sure I could spend days reading stuff on the internet and get totally confused, I was more interrested in what was "acccepted" with the "leather Pros".

Thank you all for your input, its very helpful, I posted another topic with a little more detail in the question....thanks again.

[Jordan]

I try real hard in all aspects of my leatherwork to be creative and individualistic, that is what I enjoy about it. And yes it is difficult at times to not infringe on someone elses work, wether it is a pattern or artwork. As for the comment made above, Almost all politicians are lawyers and from what I can see are not very good at either endeavor so what they do and say does not suprise me. Maybe it's the free medical benifits and the ability to give yourself pay raises that appeals to them.

[David]

Yes, David, you are correct - license agreements are one way of putting a trademarked logo on a product. There are other legal ways to do it as well. Again, it's best to discuss such issues with legal counsel if there's a question in one's mind about it. And unless one is such legal counsel, one should be cautious about what advice they offer in that respect.

Since I offered no LEGAL advice; there is no need for ME to be cautious at all, I expressed my opinion AGAINST using another's mark. Especially under the circumstances given in the post. The opinion was gleaned from 40 years of association with the profession. Now if I had advised to go ahead and use the mark....a totally different story. But I do want to make it PERFECTLY clear I am NOT an attorney and what I was expressing was an opinion. Which I still hold.

[TwinOaks]

As far as the Tandy pieces go, I think that would qualify as 'raw materials'. To use their EXACT pattern for a template, with no alterations at all might be pushing the envelope a bit. But, if you change it a little, like putting a snap closure on it instead of velcro, well I think it's altered enough- if you're using your design. Or maybe you stitch it instead of riveting it- still, you changed it.

You definitely need to read the legalities of it, perhaps talk to an attourney that specalizes in copyright laws. After all, I'm not a lawyer, and there's lots going on these days that doesn't jive with my ideas of "The way things should be".

Mike

[David]

With respect to the first part of your question about using the Tandy kit as a pattern. I've looked over several Tandy kits that I have in stock and see no copyright or patent information on them. This information is required on patented items. You can look that up on any search engine.

With respect to the Jackass wallet, assuming that the Jackass is a trademark, it would seem logical that to be guilty of infringement you would have to sell or make a profit from it....but that doesn't seem to be the case. Simply making the mark is by definition an infringement. You can look that up on any search engine.

Dave

[indypbear]

If I by a Tandy cell phone case, tool it with one of their template designs and sell it, is that ok? If I use that same cell phone case "as" a template, use my own leather that I buy from Tandy can I tool it and sell it with my own carving on it? I guess the question is where is the line drawn. I could cut a peice of leather for a cell phone case of my own design, but there may be someone out there that has already created one and Patented that design. Or I may have drawn something, carved it, and later someone sees what I have created, and sue me. So, basically, I just unknowingly infringed on someones art?. Like I said before, I have seen many things out there selling that are VERY similar that could have been "stolen" or just a coincidence. I am fairly artistic, and have done some cool drawings that I could use for leather. With just starting out I have friends that want to buy some of the stuff I've made for practice peices and I want to be clear on what I can and can't do. Perhaps I should start reading up on the "legalities" of this stuff. One of the wallets I did for my son was a "Jackass insignia, I didn't sell it, but thats what my kid wanted on his wallet. That would be concidered wrong, even tho it wasn't sold? This is only a hobby for me, but if I can sell some of the stuff I do for practice I'd like to, unless it turns into a pain in the a**.

Russ,If it doesn't show patent pending, copyrite, trademark™ and you bought it it's yours to do with what you want. Borrow some ones design with their permission or use the one in the kit and sell it, give it, trade it etc. Don't be paranoid about being sued. We all stand on the shoulders of those that came before us, Stohlman, Baird, Giehl, Hurst, Gomer, King, Geer, Lair, Linnell etc., etc., etc. These folks gave to us so we can learn, practice and give to others in the future. The patterns are for you to gain experience and then you can create your own designs and patterns. (Example) It's not against the law to write and forge a check using someone else's name and account number BUT it is against the law to utter that instrument for personal profit! Sounds contradictory but it's the law as I enforced it!

I look forward to seeing some of your creativity.

Indy

With respect to the first part of your question about using the Tandy kit as a pattern. I've looked over several Tandy kits that I have in stock and see no copyright or patent information on them. This information is required on patented items. You can look that up on any search engine.With respect to the Jackass wallet, assuming that the Jackass is a trademark, it would seem logical that to be guilty of infringement you would have to sell or make a profit from it....but that doesn't seem to be the case. Simply making the mark is by definition an infringement. You can look that up on any search engine. Dave

Good answer Dave.

Indy

Edited June 6, 2008 by indypbear