How Do You Handle People Wanting To Cancel Orders.

[billymac814]

I make and sell holsters online and have for a few years now and never had an issue with people ordering and then later trying to cancel but twice this week it has happened and both times I had already started their order. I maintain a posted 8-10 week wait list and almost always deliver on time. Both of these orders are paid for and even ahead of schedule by a little bit, I have not yet refunded their money and part of me doesn't want to but I also don't need someone posting negative things about me either. The one order I can easily resell the other would be more difficult and because of this I really don't think I'm giving him a refund. From here on out I'm going to have a written policy. These incidents are why policy's exist I suppose.

For the one that would be difficult to sell I considered telling him that since its already started that it is too late to cancel but if he really doesn't want it I will assist him in selling it.

FYI the reasoning behind the cancelations is the one guys decided he thinks a kydex one would be better and the other said he didn't think it would be this long so he made "other arrangements" but as I already said this order was or will be finished before the promised date. I don't think these are good enough reasons frankly. In the past I had a few people who had problems with their gun and traded it in and I just refunded them as I didn't start on it yet anyway and I had one guy who said his financial situation drastically changed and he really needed the money he spent, I refunded him and still sent him the holster.

[DoubleC]

I have recently made up a written policy for this very reason. I am the world's worst at collecting money. I have on there a 50% non refundable cutting fee for a custom order and if it's personalized like by initials or a name, that sort of thing, it's 100%. Something like that is almost impossible to sell.

I guess it depends on how much you care about what these two guys say about you and I don't really think they can hurt your business much if you're working that far out. I agree, I don't think either of them are good reasons, so I'd advise you say no. But then that's easy for me to say. Cheryl

[Glendon]

Yep, you're right. This sort of situation is exactly why policies get written out. Personally, I agree. Neither sounds like a particularly good excuse to pull back on a deal. My response would be that once the project is started, the sale is final. You did not say so, but it sounds like one holster is pretty stock and the other is custom in some way, thats why it would be hard to sell I assume? For the more common one, I might suggest framing it in the terms that you would not give him a refund, but would be willing to buy it back from him at a reduced price for the trouble of having to resell it. For the custom one, I would say the sale is final since you would not have an easy time selling it to someone else.

[bluesman1951]

I wonder what Judge Judy would say in regard to the contact and prepayment. If you have honored your end I would refund nothing . I dont deal with fools and in my world there is no such thing as a refund . Bill

[JustKate]

Don't forget to take into account the amount of time that "stock" item spent in your work queue, that you could have spent completing orders for other paying customers. That is also tantamount to lost income.

[camano ridge]

I tell my customers and have a policy, that they may cancel up to the point where I begin construction. I normally try to let my customers know about one week before I begin work on their project that they have reached the top of the list and that I will be starting their project. Once the knife hits the leather there is no refund. If you had put in an email the date of projected completion or had the wait time clearly posted on your web site, then he was aware of the projected completion date and should have contacted you before making other arrangements. I would tell him that upon completion that you will be sending him his new holster, however since the project has already been started no refund is available. I would not offer to help himj seel the holster, in his mind it will then become your responsability to sell it and get him his money. As to the other gentleman he should have decided on kydex before he ordered from you and paid for a custom holster. Just my two cents worth.

[billymac814]

Ok, I think everyone confirmed my thought on it as well.

The hard to sell one isn't a customized or personalized item, if it was i wouldnt even consider a refund, its just an ankle holster which I don't sell many of and its for a model of gun that I don't sell many holsters for, plus a mag pouch for a different model which would sell quickly but combined its about a 200.00 dollar order, and combined with the other order it's 300.00 bucks.

I collect 100% of the payment, mainly because its far to complicated to do it any other way with the amount of items I make. I tried it other ways and it was a mess as well as doubled the invoicing/paperwork portion. I make exceptions on occasions but only for larger orders like a motorcycle seat or something where I'll take a down payment but I don't do many of those anymore.

I'm not really concerned with them hurting my business per se but I have maintained a good reputation and would like to keep it that way and as long as I'm in the right I don't care if they post their experience even if it didn't turn out the way they would have liked. Most normal people would understand and disregard it, those who don't wouldn't be a good customer anyway.

To Bluesman, I'd love to know how you filter out all the fools because I'd say anyone who's in business has to put up with a bunch of fools. Most of my online sales are all good people but I have a shop with a retail location doing a lot of repair work as well and I unfortunately can't prevent them from coming in and the really bad ones I generally turn down if I foresee an issue but I still gotta feed my family and fools money spends just as good, sometimes better!

Thanks for all the replies.

[billymac814]

I agree camano, my wait time is clearly posted on every page of my site and he is a repeat customer so it was no surprise. The only reason I'd offer to sell it is because he's a repeat but I don't think I'm going to mainly because I know it won't sell quickly.

I'd like to be able to notify my customers prior to starting them but it takes up too much time that I don't have, I'm already working ridiculous hours to keep the wait time where it is, though they do get notified when it ships with tracking info. I've thought about making a calendar so customers can gauge where their order is but I haven't worked all the details out yet.

[TwinOaks]

I don't have the internet sales that you do, so my situation is different. I deal with customers mostly face to face. For common gun holsters (1911, Glock, etc.), I have a 50% non-refundable deposit. Period. If I make the holster and they don't want it, but I know I can sell it, I'll refund them their 50%...but ONLY 50%. If its a custom rig, 100% up front, non-refundable.

When we take an order, we have to account for time (layout, construction), and materials. That's time/material that could be spent on other projects, and like Kate said, that's lost income if we don't collect.

[grittyroots]

i always take a deposit for my furniture work. it is usually 50% this should cover my materials and time. if i have bought the material and have started the project i will not refund the deposit. if i have bought the material and haven't started i will refund the deposit less material.

hope this helps

gritty

[hollisyoung]

I've had the same problem. But unlike you I am a strictly custom order guy. In person or over phone. I do not under any circumstances put a name or initials on it until I get paid. I still have a belt from 2011 with the name "Alford" on the back because I was dumb and didn't get the money up front. He still has no intention of paying. So needless to say every "Alford" I meet I try to sell this belt hahaha.

[bluesman1951]

To answer your question : I dont have a shop ,I dont take orders unless its from a established customer I am 100% wholesale . I have a well established client base and my job is to bring them a well made product at a fair price . I make my regular stuff and am always creating new stuff . I have a idea what will sell and try to make my customer a sucess. Only a few have my phone number ,none of them know where I live except the city . When I show up its best to take all I have what ever it is because honestly I never know when I am coming back . In 25 years of this leather business only a few times has a customer come over . That did not work out well so now thats over . If some one wants to be rembered and seen first with new stuff my advice is buy it all next time I ll and give you first option . Usually a sales call consists of "what do you have ,add it up ,get a check be social and I am gone maybe 10 minutes total. I like it this way . If I had this the way I wanted I would sell twice a year and go find me a great cabin with a hot tub and hang out till the pile was big enough to make a road trip . I have no idea what every one else is doing or how they conduct their business . I decided long ago if I did not like it or enjoy it then it was not going to happen . Am I rich NO not by a long shot ,its a battle some days . No one gets close enough to screw with my happiness or my time . I am old enough now I no longer care nothing to prove the stuff I make sells and when it dont Ill create something else . Good karma is what matters these days ,the saying : As you give so shall you recive " is not just a nice saying ,in a sucessful business its the law . It makes things work . So I hope this answers your question sir . All my best ,Good luck . Bill

[Jeff L]

Have any of you that refused a refund had an issue with PayPal? I do know that a customer can file a complaint and sometimes the money is refunded almost immediately... Without even contacting the seller other than to inform them that the funds were taken from their account... Also what about a money back guarantee that most makers have???

[Dwight]

My policy is simple, . . . I treat my customers like I want to be treated. They don't like what they ordered, . . . they get their money back.

Sometimes something does not work out, . . . is not what they expected, . . . whatever.

That's my policy.

Yeah, . . . been burned, . . . will happen again, . . . but I sleep well at night knowing I did not rip anyone off, . . . and there should be no hard feelings by anyone.

My last "return" was a very special custom belt that did not work out for him, I made him a new one, . . . added a brand new buclke to it also, . . . got two holster orders from him, . . . plus, I'm wearing the belt he didn't like.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Cyberthrasher]

Have any of you that refused a refund had an issue with PayPal? I do know that a customer can file a complaint and sometimes the money is refunded almost immediately... Without even contacting the seller other than to inform them that the funds were taken from their account... Also what about a money back guarantee that most makers have???

I've never had it happen from this end, but I have been on the other end of it. From my understanding, once you file the complaint Paypal pulls the money and holds it while they go through the process. That's how I remember it anyway. This would be a good reason to ENSURE that you have a written document and be able to prove that the customer has seen it.

[veedub3]

Have any of you that refused a refund had an issue with PayPal? I do know that a customer can file a complaint and sometimes the money is refunded almost immediately... Without even contacting the seller other than to inform them that the funds were taken from their account... Also what about a money back guarantee that most makers have???

When you file a dispute with Paypal, while they are investigating, they will give you a provisional credit if you were the buyer, and they will remove the funds from your Paypal account if you were the Seller. As the buyer, If they side in your favor, they will send you notice that the credit is final. If they side with the seller they will remove the credit from your account, and give it back to the seller.

I had this happen a few weeks ago both as a Seller and a Buyer. Luckily Paypal sided in my favor on both disputes. As the Seller, a customer stated she never got her order, and Paypal removed the funds from my account. I was able to provide proof of delivery so Paypal gave me the money back. As a buyer, I placed an $155 dollar online order that was lost in the mail and the seller would not give me a refund until she got the package back. I never had possession of the package because it was lost in the mail, so I could not control when and if the packaged would be returned to her. I filed a dispute, Paypal gave me the provisional credit while they were investigating, and a few weeks later I received notice from Paypal that the credit was final and the case was closed.

Karina

[Dwight]

While most of my relationship with Paypal has been good, . . . several years ago I bought a computer off Ebay.

I should have known better, . . . but the price and the lure was just too much, . . . so I bought it, . . . paid by Paypal.

Long story short: the computer was junk, . . . software not installed right, . . . I'm not even sure he had licenses for the software.

I contacted him and told him his computer was coming back.

Took it to the Post Office, . . . sent it with tracking number and it had to be signed for by him.

He got it, . . . signed for it, . . . refused to refund my money, . . . tried to slide by the time allotted by Paypal for disputes.

They sided with him, . . . even though I had all the documents proving he got it back and HE signed for it.

Fortunately, . . . Master Card stepped in and refunded my $350.00 or I would have lost out altogether.

Moral of the story, . . . if you have a dispute, . . . act quickly, . . . positively, . . . and have all possible receipts & paperwork. The copy of his signed receipt was the ONLY thing that made the difference for me.

May God bless,

Dwight

[raysouth]

From previous small business ventures, I developed a refund, no-refund policy and made sure that customers were aware of the policy.

It did not, initially, have to do with leather products, but I continue to use the same policy.

If it is special order or custom fabrication, it must be paid in full when placing the order and there will be no refunds.

Years ago, many, I had customers that operated older machinery that required special order parts. The suppliers/manufacturers had remaining stock of older parts but they would not refund when any of them were ordered. You buy it, you own it, was the policy.

Having been stuck for a rather large order by a customer who found some used parts before his special order arrived, decided to cancel but did not tell me until his parts arrived and I placed a call to tell him they were here.

Thus my policy became the same policy used by the suppliers. I lost the money I paid for the antique parts and decided that any special or custom order was a fixed deal for future sales.

Most customers were very understanding but there is always those around that will give you fits.

I found that I lost no business and still use the same policy with custom leather items. If it is something I can easily resell, that has no personalization, I may make an adjustment but rarely happens.

I think that everyone has to develop a policy when dealing with special orders, or simply be willing to eat the cake, if customer refuses the order and wants a refund.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Pretty much all of the responses are spot on. On saddles and most other high end items it is 50% down nonrefundable. If they cancel order they have lost their deposit. Plain and simple. Once I had a guy at the track order a belt, he wanted it tooled and initialed. When I delivered it, he didn't want to pay for it! He said " I was just kidding, I really didn't want one." He was trying to get me to reduce the price, I took the belt, and in front of all that were there watching to see what I would do, I took out my knife and cut it into pieces. Looked at him directly and told him that " I was just kidding, I really didn't want to make him a belt anyway!" That set the tone for all orders at the track from then on. I got a lot of mileage from standing my ground, and it was all good. Bob