sewing stingray

[pete]

I notice that stingray is becoming really popular for inserts and such. I've also seen that comment that a lot of you are breaking needles.

Am I going to have any trouble using a regular home model singer if I'm only sewing through a

small(+/- 1 oz)skin and 1-1.5 oz wallet lining?

please advise as I have never used a sewing machine and I'm going to get my wife to do it.!!!!!

pete

[whinewine]

I notice that stingray is becoming really popular for inserts and such. I've also seen that comment that a lot of you are breaking needles.

Am I going to have any trouble using a regular home model singer if I'm only sewing through a

small(+/- 1 oz)skin and 1-1.5 oz wallet lining?

please advise as I have never used a sewing machine and I'm going to get my wife to do it.!!!!!

pete

A problem could be that the stingray hide is composed of very small calcium or bone 'bumps' on the leather matrix and a sewing machine needle hitting these bumps could dull/bend/break.[ Just my speculation] I have laced SR by using lacing punches, but I have never tried to sew it, either by hand or by machine (including my Boss).

You brought up a good, point, Pete: Guys, just how is this done?

russ

[MADMAX22]

I jsut got done hand sewing my stingray inlay. It was a pain in spots and not bad in others.

The strip or dot in the center that is white is composed of larger calcium deposits which are hard as bone or anything else that is pure calcium. The rest of it that is composed of smaller little dots are easier to work around.

I used a awl and at times a scratch awl to push holes thru for hand sewing. The big deposits of calcium I had to work around.

As for machine sewing I have heard of sewing from the back side. I have also heard of using a dremel to smooth out a stitch line.

[bruce johnson]

Pete,

I heard about all the problems sewing stingray too, and was reluctant to use it for a few years. I also heard the little beads on the stingray would turn to dust if a needle shattered them and might as well be pouring sand into your machine. Probably happened to someone I guess. I am knocking on wood here. I have yet to break a needle or have any problems sewing the stingray. I mostly use the L/R point needles. I like the look a little better. On the 1245, I sew it with a 140 needle for the #138 thread or a 160 needle for #207. On the 2000, I usually am sewing #277 on top and use a 200 needle. I am sandwiching it between two layers of vegtan which might help stabilize the needle path. Still I have yet to break a needle or even burr one up. Sewing it on a home machine with skinny needles and lighter thread probably brings a whole different set of factors though with sewing. Biggest problem I had when it was topsewn was edging it. Those cut beads are sharp enough to slice you pretty good, although blood washes off the stingray easy enough. I used a dremel and sanding drums and got the best results. I think that is what Jerry VanAmburg was doing with his exposed edge stingray too.

[Andy]

I just finished up a stingray rig for a customer,

http://andysgunthoughts.wordpress.com/cust...ray-1911-combo/

It worked fine in my Adler 205. (207/277).

Andy

[BruceGibson]

"Those cut beads are sharp enough to slice you pretty good, although blood washes off the stingray easy enough..."

Heck, if bleeding's involved then it's right up my alley.

[hides]

I hand stitch SR all of the time. Contact a jeweler and get a couple of jewelers drill bits. These can be chucked into a dremmel moto tool. by pre drilling the project the needle will pass through easely and with out any problems. I finish my edge with dye and a slicker compound, then do blind stitches by spliting the leather about 1/4" back from the insert area. Roll the leather back and run my stitching wheel. I then drill the marked holes. I stitch it and then glue the split back togather with contact cement. if your edge finish is on, any contact cement that squishes out can be rolled up into balls and discarded. this method is great if you want a tight border to the insert and dont want thread to distract from your inlay.

also these bits work wonders with newer style craft tools you wish to re-work. I know of no other place you can get the bits than from a Jeweler of jewelers supply house

[mmirob]

I notice that stingray is becoming really popular for inserts and such. I've also seen that comment that a lot of you are breaking needles.

Am I going to have any trouble using a regular home model singer if I'm only sewing through a

small(+/- 1 oz)skin and 1-1.5 oz wallet lining?

please advise as I have never used a sewing machine and I'm going to get my wife to do it.!!!!!

pete

I have sewn several SR holsters on my Tippmann. Here is what I have learned. First it depends on the size of the hide. The larger hides 10 or more inches (measured width across the "Pearl") have much larger beads as you get closer to the pearl. These larger beads will absolutely divert your needle slightly and make for what appears to be sloppy stitching. If you are stitching in these larger areas it is best to use a dremel with cutting wheel and grind or groove your stitch line. You do not have to go through the beads but simply groove it so your needle will track straight. As you get closer to the hides edge (smaller beads) you do not have to worry or groove at all, stitch away.

I have never broken a needle but can see where it is possible so I do wear glasses. You will crunch some beads which I believe will ultimately dull a needle.

It is one of my most favorite exotic hides. It is simply beautiful and so durable. It stays shiny, wipes clean with a moist towel, and looks great for a long time.

[Jimbob]

Just done my first stingray wallet.....wow

The Adler 267 could not handle it, broke needle right away....so I went to the Adler 105 and had no problems....but the stitches looked sloppy.

So yes it makes a difference what needle we use.

The Adler uses 200 LR needles...so a very firm an stiff needle.

The idea with the stitching groove I like...will try again soon.

This shine and beauty of SR is amazing!!

Lets see how many more people can report their experience with ray leather!!!

Jimbob

[Bob Blea]

I bought a ray skin about a year ago and my experience has been that it's sat on the bench staring at me while I stare at it. I don't have a sewing machine and I've heard about how hard the little beads can be, and I don't want to try and push my sewing awl through them (at least not my good Douglass one). I hadn't considered pre-drilling the holes till I read it here. I might have to give that a try. I wanted to use this as an inlay in a notebook, but haven't taken on the project just yet. This has been encouraging....

Bob

[DrJerry]

I bought a ray skin about a year ago and my experience has been that it's sat on the bench staring at me while I stare at it. I don't have a sewing machine and I've heard about how hard the little beads can be, and I don't want to try and push my sewing awl through them (at least not my good Douglass one). I hadn't considered pre-drilling the holes till I read it here. I might have to give that a try. I wanted to use this as an inlay in a notebook, but haven't taken on the project just yet. This has been encouraging....

Bob

Bob, that is so funny as I have about 8 or 9 stingray hides and do the same thing! I pick them up, look at them, admire the texture, then put them away again hoping to get up the nerve to make something with them.

[Bob Blea]

I'm still admiring mine too! But one of my goals for 2014 is to use one as an inlay in a notebook. I'll post it here when I get it made.

Bob

[tedinatl]

I've hand-stitched it, and pre-drilling and cutting a groove with the dremel is very helpful, if not necessary. With my new Cobra P4, I had absolutely no issues sewing a pouch sheath for a knife together - 2 layers of SR, and about 3/8" veg-tan in the middle with #277 thread. I did groove it first with a dremel, though, but that was because I didn't want the thread sticking out too much.

[MG513]

This was really useful knowledge... Im hoping my Singer 29-4 can move through this hide... I dont have a dremel though. But it sounds like it may be necessary...

[Trox]

This was really useful knowledge... Im hoping my Singer 29-4 can move through this hide... I dont have a dremel though. But it sounds like it may be necessary...

Based on what you we have read in this topic, a 29K will be to weak for such job. Unless you use the biggest leather needle that will fit and make a stitch line with a grinding tool. And keep away from the biggest beads. I would use my 441 with a NM 200 plus LR needle on this job, I would not risk using any thing less. Breaking a needle is nothing, but you also risking knocking your machine out of timing. Get broken beads, needle pieces in the shuttle and possible breaking it. If you have to use a smaller machine, choose one with a safety clutch. I would rather take the time to hand sew instead of risking breaking my 29K-72 on such work. I cannot be that big of a job?

Tor

[Colt W Knight]

The head guy at M. L. Leddy boots told me stingray was a PITA for them because stingray broke needles.

[Windrider30]

I personally hand stitch stingray and use a pricking iron for it. Jusf works better for me so never bothered with a sewing machine. Now if you are going to cut stingray cut it from the backside I have found that works better then tring to cut it from the front.

[MG513]

@ Trox,

You are probably right. I might add that I am a rookie and Ive never sewed in my life, so I have no clue what a 441 etc etc is, lol sorry. I dont plan on sewing stingray for a long time, not until i really get to know my machine. Over the weekend I did do some research though and found that many think diamond point needles are the one that should be used for such a hide, but i read that titanium is needed instead. I did talk to a friend who has already started his sneaker reconstruction business, but he has classic cobbler training, I do not, and he enjoys hand sewing though he did say stingray was quite difficult. He says he pokes the holes with an awl and then sews with some Tiger thread...

I think the 29-4 can take a size 18 needle. Is that big enough?? Also, after my 29-K i am thinking of purchasing a Sailrite Zig zag. That way I have a flat bed as well... I have read that does have a safety clutch system. After I master these 2 I will probably upgrade my 29-4 to a post post bed since I will be making shoes...

For the dremel options can someone please suggest a bit?? I a willing to take this extra step especially if it means preserving my machine!! Thanks

I personally hand stitch stingray and use a pricking iron for it. Jusf works better for me so never bothered with a sewing machine. Now if you are going to cut stingray cut it from the backside I have found that works better then tring to cut it from the front.

May I ask what pricking irons you use?? Also, what do you hit it with? Maul or mallet??

When you cut your stingray, what tool do you use to cut it with??

[Windrider30]

I use a SHARP Stanley knife making sure the blade is new. And i use a set of pro pricking irons i got from tandy and just use a heavy mallet. Oh and I prick the lines first from the back makes it easer to scribe a straight line

[Trox]

@ Trox,

You are probably right. I might add that I am a rookie and Ive never sewed in my life, so I have no clue what a 441 etc etc is, lol sorry. I dont plan on sewing stingray for a long time, not until i really get to know my machine. Over the weekend I did do some research though and found that many think diamond point needles are the one that should be used for such a hide, but i read that titanium is needed instead. I did talk to a friend who has already started his sneaker reconstruction business, but he has classic cobbler training, I do not, and he enjoys hand sewing though he did say stingray was quite difficult. He says he pokes the holes with an awl and then sews with some Tiger thread...

I think the 29-4 can take a size 18 needle. Is that big enough?? Also, after my 29-K i am thinking of purchasing a Sailrite Zig zag. That way I have a flat bed as well... I have read that does have a safety clutch system. After I master these 2 I will probably upgrade my 29-4 to a post post bed since I will be making shoes...

For the dremel options can someone please suggest a bit?? I a willing to take this extra step especially if it means preserving my machine!! Thanks

May I ask what pricking irons you use?? Also, what do you hit it with? Maul or mallet??

When you cut your stingray, what tool do you use to cut it with??

A 441, refer to a class of machines based on a the Juki TSC 441 triple feed heavy cylinder bed leather stitcher. Chinese clones of this machine are pimped to sew even heavier than the original machine, mine sew 20 mm leather with the heaviest threads (such as tex 415). A Singer size 18 is metric 110 (1,1 mm thick/small needle). I would at least use a size 26 (NM 200, 2 mm thick) on my 441 for such material.

A Dremel machine is a small El. rotating multi tool, you can use small sanding disk/grinding wheels on it. If you grind a narrow stitch line, remove the beads in it. It should be possible to sew with your machine too. Go slow with your biggest needle, LR DI or D leather needle tip. There are many cheaper copies of the Dremel for sale everywhere, lots of tools for it too. Such machine is very useful for a leather shop for lots of reasons, like mending tools or burnishing leather edges and so on.

And here is some more advice on cutting http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=35981I only use stingray for inlays and not often.

When it comes to hand sewing leather in general (I sometimes do it when it's required). I use pricking wheels (in a Blanchard carriage) and a awl to do the saddle stitch. I also use a French style sewing clamp. I also finish of heavy machine seams by hand, in the sewing clamp (locking off outside the edge). I do not own or use any pricking irons. If I find any used old good ones to a decent price , I will collect them but not necessary use them.

Go to the sewing machine forum for advice on leather sewing machines, read the pinned posts on top of forum about choosing a leather sewing machine. Read up before buying a machine you cannot use on leather, it can be hard to sell "the wrong machine" later. Check our forum dealers sites, top banners for the best choices. Zip Zak machines are used on fabrics and sails. You need a triple feed straight stitch leather machine for heavy threads, preferable a cylinder bed with a shuttle hook.

Good luck

Tor

[MG513]

Thanks everybody... Im still waiting to hear back from the person that was selling the Singer, but I have just come across a silver Adler patcher, not sure what model or price etc, but does anybody know if the Adler patchers have any advantages to the Singer's?? Besides cost LOL.

Im gonna look more into the dremel thing. I still need to get some pricking irons, havent gotten that far yet. Im not gonna sew with stingray though until i get really comfortable with my machine... Seems like finding the darn machine is the hardest part!

[Trox]

That's exactly the same machine, uses the same shuttle. Both Singer and Adler makes a small and a large hook machine and different arm length. And of course there are several other brands that also makes this machine: the Singer . 29K (and U)and Adler class 30. It's not a Duerkopp Adler it's was made before 94 and now made on licence from DA by SL Special machines, Germany.http://www.sl-spezial.de/sl/index.php/shoe-repair.html

These are repair machines, with a top feeding foot that will make ugly markings on leather. It has a very thin arm to fit inside shoes and therfore a very small bobbin too. That means very little and thin threads. As long as you understand what this machine will and will not do. It's a tool that can sew every seam that other cannot, but will not do any pretty job. Small stitch length and ugly markings, but we cannot do with out it.

Tor

Edited September 21, 2015 by Trox