Tips For Your 441 Sewing Machines (Courtesy Of Cobra Steve)

[Wizcrafts]

Chapman;

You posted your general question in what is known as a sticky topic. Steve's tips for 441 owners was supposed to be his own limited discussion topic, not an open discussion.

You should re-post your question as a new topic, in this section of the forum (but not this particular topic). Personally, I keep several machines, each with a different capacity. Smaller machines are for thinner work. Your Cobra Class 4 is not meant to replace them.

[chapman]

Thanks for getting back to me lws380 and wiz I'm thinking you guys are right about hanging on to it awhile the only reason for selling is space in the shop.. and I am sorry about posting in the wrong place I didn't realize it until it was too late wiz.. chapman...

[Wizcrafts]

Chapman asked if the Cobra Class 4 is good for thin material. Technically: yes; practically: not without certain readjustments.

I have used a Class 4 owned by a fellow leather goods producer and own an identical machine branded as a Cowboy. These machines are built tougher than most sewing machines. They have massive castings and very strong pressure and tension springs. Their feed dogs are very large and have a gigantic needle hole that is more or less a slot. The cutout in the throat plate is very long and wide, to accommodate the full range of motion of the feed dog and its maximum stitch length setting.

All this is meant to allow you to sew very dense and thick stacks of leather, or webbing, with most of the heaviest bonded threads in common distribution.

So, what needs to be done to sew thin, soft material? You need to dumb down your machine. Here's how.

For normal stiffness heavy broadcloth and denim (pants and shirts), etc:

• change to a #20 or 21 regular round point needle.
• Switch to #92 bonded nylon or polyester thread, or #80 or 100 cotton/polyester jeans thread.
• Load the bobbin with the same thread. When you install the bobbin, reset the spring tension on the bobbin case for a slight, but smooth resistance. Basically, it needs a little more pull that a domestic sewing machine, but nowhere near what you use to sew a half inch stack of veg-tan.
• Use the supplied open end wrench to loosen the nut on the back of the housing on the head for the shaft on the lower tension disks.
• There is a spring on the bottom shaft, known as the "check spring." It's job is to keep tension on the top thread as the needlebar moves down. It lets go just before the needle reaches BDC and reengages as the needle and take-up lever start moving up. The amount of travel can be set via the movable sliding steel stopper under the bottom of the spring. Normally, your 441 machine is adjusted with a lot of check spring tension, needed to maintain control of up to #415 bonded thread. It is waaaaaay too much action for #92 thread!
• After loosening the locking nut, use a screw driver blade in the split end of the bottom shaft and turn it counter clockwise to loosen the spring action. You'll want to back off the spring action so the spring has just enough tension to fully travel up and down to its stopper, and nothing more.
• Tighten down the nut behind the housing to lock in that spring setting.
• You may or may not also need to back off the nut on the front of the lower disk shaft, to allow the upper tensioner to control the position of the knots.
• Back off the upper tension disks nut and sew into a test piece of the same material and thickness. Keep backing off the top tension nut until the knots are buried inside the material. You may have to take it to zero tension. If you cannot back off enough on the top, loosen the lower tension disk tension with its round knurled nut.
• If the knots are just slightly on top, tighten the bobbin spring a little.
• Make sure the top thread feeds straight from the thread stand through just one hole in the top post. Doubling the top thread around that post can sometimes override the top tension spring in soft and thin materiel.
• As a last resort, move down one more needle size. You can go as low as a #19 needle for #80 or 92 thread. Smaller needles make tighter holes and help the knots to move down.
• Last, back off the presser foot pressure adjuster until it almost pops out of the housing.
• Hold back the starting thread in your left hand.
• Backtack over the first three stitches to lock them in.
• Sew at about 8 stitches per inch.
• Backtack 3 stitches or so at the end

To sew soft and thin cloth materials (iffy)

• Switch to no more than #69 bonded thread. Polyester may work better.
• Install a #18 standard round point needle.
• Make sure the top thread has a direct feed path to the upper tensioner without doubling over any posts.
• Remove the throat plate and bobbin case, then unscrew the feed dog. Use a wide flat blade screwdriver and lots of torque (ccw).
• Install the optional flat throat plate with a narrow slot.
• Reinstall the bobbin case.
• Follow above procedures for reducing all tensions and foot pressure.
• Use the double toe harness foot, or even the wide blanket foot, if you received one.
• Balance the tensions as best as you can, with a minimum of bobbin tension.
• Install the flat table attachment for better material stability.
• Hold back the starting threads and sew forward three stitches
• Reverse and sew back over those stitches.
• Hold the material fairly tightly front and back and sew at about 8 or 9 stitches to the inch.
• Backtack at the end.

These readjustments will technically allow you to sew cloth on your big 441 machine. The drawbacks are the time needed to do all these changes and parts removals and the walking feet with an open gap behind the inside foot. The huge feed dog and its throat plate can allow soft and thin materials to get pushed down into those openings.

All these worries can be alleviated by using a standard industrial sewing machine for lighter work. You can even use a common household machine for light cloth and linings. They use much lighter thread and much smaller needles.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[Chayne]

Tomorrow I'll be picking up a 127W1 and was told you might have some info on it Wiz. It's a very rare machine that is non existant on the web and in singers search engine. Any help at all would be greI believe but not 100% certain it take 138 thread not sure what needle. It's a gem to collectors I would think but seems to be a bit of a nightmare for me

[amuckart]

I think this video of Cobra Steve going over the whole machine with all its adjustments makes a useful addition to this thread:

[LadyRuna]

Great tips for general knowledge, not just the focus on the machines mentioned. I learned, or had reinforced, a few steps in the process.

One query: I see in Ron's video (great video) the double looping of the thread around the upper tension disks. I've run across this before, but can't recall if it was for a specific machine of mine, or a threading step for any number of machines. Can anyone describe why the double looping, and if it pertains generally to a machine type, or more specifically to a make, model, class, etc.?

Ian

SF Bay Area

http://imcinnis.blogspot.com/

From my experience (and documented in my Willcox & Gibbs manual from 1875...a LOVELY antique!!), the additional winding was to increase the tension on the machine. I'm assuming that W&G proposed this "alternate" threading of allowing users to wind the thread around the tensioner up to three times was because at that time, any kind of tension adjuster had not been invented (or thought of - c'mon, 1875 is from the very early days of sewing). Of course. W&G manual also stated that their "automatic tensioner was not to be meddled with".

[Ed in Tx]

One thing to add. Even though you take a new needle from the package double check the point. I had a situation where I was having issues with fraying and the needle catching as it pulled up the bobbin thread. I had just place a new needle in the machine but when I took it out and looked at the point under a magnifying glass I found a small burr on the point. It wasn't much but it was enough to cause me a bunch of frustration trying to figure out what the problem was.

[Zandeosaddles]

Amazing knowledge on this forum. I am privileged to have access to all this millennia worth of experience. This is very very helpful ti inderstand the machine better. Happy sewing all

[Handstitched]

G'Day,

Another good tip (?) , give your machine a name. I call mine 'Brutus' . 

Its about time I removed the " F" & " R" magnets . I put those there on day one  when I had my " L " ( learner plates)  on when I was learning about my new toy....er....friend , many years ago   

I have a lot of respect for ' Brutus' .Its worked so hard and has now paid for itself. 

I have all the adjustments just perfect now to suit  all my sewing and rarely needs re-adjusting.  I regularly check all the nuts & bolts, the belt , cleaning and polishing as I go . Its  regularly oiled and has never let me down. 

[sakuraleather]

Ialreayd  have Juki TSC-441, an might need anther sttching machine for making knife sheaths, anybody has experience with below manual leather sewing machine machine on youtube?

https://youtu.be/TGSqsUV1Abk