Cutting the handhole

[bruce johnson]

I have been taught two ways to skin the handhole. Originally I was taught on the swell forks to make the hand hole cuts in my ground seat buildups as I went. The first few slickforks I did it that way too. I then went to cutting the handhole last on them, and like that smooth transition behind the horn better. Curious how everybody else does this, and any tips and tricks are always appreciated.

[greg gomersall]

I cut all of mine after the ground work is complete. Due to the fact I use an all leather ground seat I have to make sure my seat is completely dry before cutting. Greg

[AndyKnight]

I also cut mine when the ground seat is complete. same reason as Greg.

[Steve Brewer]

I cut the hole out after the seat is put in and dry.Build a few that we don"t cut the hole at all.

[kseidel]

Bruce,

On an all leather ground seat, I too cut dry and finished. However, on a seat with a metal strainer, I rough cut as I go. I use right and left handed lip knives for this job. It is much easier to cut the curves.

Keith

[JAM]

Bruce,

On an all leather ground seat, I too cut dry and finished. However, on a seat with a metal strainer, I rough cut as I go. I use right and left handed lip knives for this job. It is much easier to cut the curves.

Keith, what is a lip knife?

[kseidel]

JAM,

A lip knife is a knife popular with shoe and bootmakers. It has a squared off tip and the tip is curved tp the right or left at about a 90 degree angle. The "lip" is not sharpened, and the length of the blade is only sharpened on the outside creating a curved blade. The curve allows the blade to cut only curved lines. Thus the right and left knives. I believe that Panhandle leather stocks them. http://www.panhandleleather.com/ They are fairly in-expensive.

Keith

[okiwen]

We cut the hand hole out after the ground is dry with a small hole saw from the underside.

[gtwister09]

Bruce,

I always cut them last. Looked at several of the "leather ground seat" instructions that I have around and all of them likewise did it last.

Regards,

Ben

[ArtS]

I was taught to build it around it as I built up the ground seat. I use the plug like AS did.

Art

[BuckhornBrand]

Hi-

I have another novice question about tackling the handhole. I'm doing an all leather ground seat and I like the idea of cutting out the handhole after all layers are in and dry, but I'm stumped as to how I should do the handhole cover. I haven't been able to tear down any saddles with leather ground seats in them and the only one's I've done were using Stohlman's methods. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Chuck

[mulefool]

When I built saddles with a strainer plate I cut the hole afterward. I started building an all leather ground seat and used the technique with the plug. It seemed like a good idea at the start, but I think on the next saddle I will not use the plug. Now matter how hard I try, when I pull the plug out I find there are some ridges between the layersthat need to be trimmed. I also don't like the amount of work I have to do to make the back of the fork look right. For those of you that cut it afterwards how do you determine the corners? (not that there is an actual "corner", but where you come to the edge of the bar and start up towards the fork.) Do you come up from the under side with an awl to mark the edge of the bar? Do you cut each one from scratch so to speak or do you have a pattern or shape you draw on top to follow? Chris

[greg gomersall]

Chris I have a pattern that I use for shape. to start I run an awl up from the bottom in the center of the seat against the fork then turn the tree right side up. This hole is front center, i then draw my cut lines. i do not go right out to the edge of the bar. instead of cutting into a square corner i use a 3/8 drill bit to make my corners then cut out from the holes. hope this helps. Greg

[AndyKnight]

Hi-

I have another novice question about tackling the handhole. I'm doing an all leather ground seat and I like the idea of cutting out the handhole after all layers are in and dry, but I'm stumped as to how I should do the handhole cover. I haven't been able to tear down any saddles with leather ground seats in them and the only one's I've done were using Stohlman's methods. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Chuck

a pic says a thousand words and i am about 10 words a minute!!

[Go2Tex]

I prefer to cut afterwards. Had the same problems with the plug method as others mentioned. I use an awl to find my center and end points as determined by my strainer. I want to make my hole as large as possible given the restrictions of the stirrup leather slots. I then strike a nice arc with my compass on top and then cut it with a very sharp trim knife. I cut to a sharp corner on each end of the arc and then use an awl from underside to make a line of holes for the gullet line. I then connect the holes with a smooth arc on top and cut. I like a sharp corner so that my strainer cover and fork cover can intersect right at the corner.

[D.A. Kabatoff]

I cut my handhole after the whole seat is dry as well (all leather seat). I do the same as others by poking an awl up through the center of the groundwork. I use calipers to mark arcs for both the front and back of the handhole and use a round knife to cut the hole out. Mine are slightly wider than the space between the bars... ie. if the bar gap is 4"s wide my handhole is 4 3/8" wide; you can see the top edges of the bars in the first photo. I do this cause I find it easier to attach the skirts in the corners of the handhole. If need be I use a tiny little wooden spokeshave to clean up the back side of the fork and the front edge of the ground work. If you look at the top of the second photo you can see the leather is taken down almost completely to the tree. Some people put a plug on the back side of the fork to clean up the groundwork. I extend my gullet cover through the handhole and up the back side of the fork and then use my small spokeshave to clean it up to the final shape I want showing through my fork cover.

The last photo is a paper pattern of the the piece of leather I use to cover the front of the groundwork. It ends up looking almost identical to what Andy does. The edge on the bottom side of the ground seat is pinked and held in place with ring shank escutcheon pins and the top is glued down and skived to blend with the ground seat.

Andy, I was curious what kind of nails you use on the bottom...are those clinch tacks or some other kind of nail?

Darc

[BuckhornBrand]

Thanks guys- Those were some very helpfull replies.

Andy- thanks for the pictures- they said more than a thousand words. As hard as I thought about it I couldn't wrap my head around such a simple solution. You've been very helpfull with all my past questions about ground seats and I really appreciate it.

Darc- thanks also for the pictures- I really liked your idea of extending the gullet cover to help clean up the back of the fork. Wish I would have asked the question a little sooner.

Thanks again, Chuck

[AndyKnight]

Andy, I was curious what kind of nails you use on the bottom...are those clinch tacks or some other kind of nail?

Darc

those are brass clinch tacks ..... I also use escutcheon pins