Ohio Travel Bag ... Has Anyone Else Used Them Lately? *rant*

[RoosterShooter]

I usually use Ohio Travel Bag for my bulk buys on snaps, rivets, and screw posts.

However, here lately they're charging almost half the amount I pay for the items on shipping!

Is anyone else noticing this?

Today I ordered 3 items in bulk quantities that weighed less than 2 pounds for box and all. Shipping was almost $20! Any 'Savings' you make by purchasing their standard items ... you LOSE on shipping because they charge outrageously high prices for Standard UPS Shipping!

If this is going to be their standard practice from now on I think I'll pass. I can get it much cheaper if I were to pay retail somewhere else!

Your thoughts?

Edited April 24, 2014 by RoosterShooter

[benlilly1]

I've tried twice to get a catalog in the mail...Filled out all the information twice and still have yet to receive one.

[RoosterShooter]

They carry a large number and variety of items like rivets, bag handles, buttons, clasps, buckles, etc ...

However, they make you feel like you're getting a good deal on your order, and then hit you with an exorbitant shipping charge!

I weighed and measured the order I received last, and for me to ship it to them UPS was $10 cheaper than what they charged me! All savings went out the door when they tagged on their shipping charge.

[Troy I]

Just received an order from them...$35 for the items and $18 for shipping....very expensive considering the total weight of the package was less than a pound. ..One good thing is that I got everything within 2 days of ordering.

[TomG]

They need to fix their website. They only offer UPS on the site. But if you put comments in to please ship USPS or cheapest method, they will do it. I think my last 4 pound order came on a medium P-2 box for $12 or so.

[Troy I]

I didn't know that TomG. Thanks I will do that next time.

[ChuckBurrows]

one thing to remember - when buying from a business you are not just paying for the actual cost of shipping, but the cost of handling as well - any good business model MUST take into consideration the cost of packing materials as well as the labor otherwise it can kill you fast (I'm an ex-accountant) - not so much for a one man operation, but when you are shipping hundreds or thousands of orders it can become a major cost factor.

[kwelna]

I think I have to agree but also disagree. The handling costs (Actually all costs) should be included in the price of the object. The proprietor should know his overhead costs and price his items accordingly. (Not including shipping costs that is.) This is the same thing as the "Shop Fees" \ "Hasmat Fees" charged by auto repair shops. Most Hasmat materials cost nothing to dispose of adn nost shops have a collector that comes by and picks up the material for free. What this does do is give the repair shop an extra $10-$20 profit on each repair ticket. I know this to be true as that is how the added shop\hasmat feature on repair shop softare is touted ( I went to a couple of sales pitches for 2 different software packages and in both cases they drove this point home as a way to increas the bottom line without any effort). Think about if you are a repair shop and you turn over 5,000 tickets a year this would be a profit of 50,000 100,000 each year.

[Ferg]

You may be familiar with mechanics and Hasmat shops but you are a little less informed for shipping product.

We ship between 25,000 and 30,000 packages per year via USPS. To make things easy for our customers we average the shipping costs over the entire spectrum for USA only. Person packaging, checking address for mistakes, printing the label, applying label is paid $20,00 per hour. Some packages we make a few cents on, some we lose a few, it balances out. I guarantee you, we don't make thousands of dollars on the shipping.

ferg

[LTC]

I think I have to agree but also disagree. The handling costs (Actually all costs) should be included in the price of the object. The proprietor should know his overhead costs and price his items accordingly. (Not including shipping costs that is.) This is the same thing as the "Shop Fees" \ "Hasmat Fees" charged by auto repair shops. Most Hasmat materials cost nothing to dispose of adn nost shops have a collector that comes by and picks up the material for free. What this does do is give the repair shop an extra $10-$20 profit on each repair ticket. I know this to be true as that is how the added shop\hasmat feature on repair shop softare is touted ( I went to a couple of sales pitches for 2 different software packages and in both cases they drove this point home as a way to increas the bottom line without any effort). Think about if you are a repair shop and you turn over 5,000 tickets a year this would be a profit of 50,000 100,000 each year.

+1

[TomG]

Agree totally with Ferg. We charge by the item, based on weight, because that is how our costs are calculated by the shipper in most cases. Plus our direct costs.

On our Etsy shop, the majority of our items are $3.50 in the US. Items we know cost more are charged appropriately. This covers our USPS costs ($1.93 minimum to around $3 max) for 1st class mail. Add $.50 to $1 for an envelope/box, plus the label, etc. Like Ferg said, some you come out ahead, some you lose a bit. It averages out.

On our regular website, the shopping cart can directly calculate the costs for USPS and UPS and the customer can select the method of shipping they want to pay for. We add $1.50 to that calculated cost to cover the envelope, labels, ink, padding, and labor to put it all together. We basically break even on website S&H.

Unless you have a small, limited product line, rolling the S&H costs in are not really practical for most of us. Unless you overcharge for the S&H <g>

[ChuckBurrows]

yes it can be done either way - include handling in the cost or into shipping and yes if you use a software and weight you are limited to including in the base price - when included in the price the handling fees are "hidden" - bottom line the final price is still the same and needs to be considered. Or as 50 Yr Leather mentioned you can average the shipping/handling costs.....

and no not everyone includes hazmat fees in the price - I buy blackpowder, caps, and primers online for instance and most places the hazmat is an extra charge.....

[RoosterShooter]

There are a lot of good points being made here, but the reason I do good business is because I charge 'Flat Rate' charges on my shipping. Granted there is nothing I make that would be more than 5 pounds ... unless they ordered bulk. However, those USPS Flat Rate boxes can get anywhere in the Continental US in 2 days now for a very small fee compared to UPS which can be 5x the price depending on the weight.

[TomG]

Speaking of flat rate boxes, allow me to introduce a USPS service that I'll bet the majority of users are unaware of...

Regional Rate Boxes. They come in sizes like "A", B" and "C". All are supplied for free by USPS, and ship Priority mail. They are not truly flat rate, but ship at a cost based on the "A", "B", "C" size and distance.

And you can see the rates on the USPS site, just like other services. Sort of a cross between 1st class and Priority mail... Much cheaper than parcel post for larger packages. And no box costs.

But you will need to order your boxes in advance in a lot of places. I was told, but have not confirmed, that some PO's do not stock the Regional Rate boxes.

[veedub3]

Speaking of flat rate boxes, allow me to introduce a USPS service that I'll bet the majority of users are unaware of...

Regional Rate Boxes. They come in sizes like "A", B" and "C". All are supplied for free by USPS, and ship Priority mail. They are not truly flat rate, but ship at a cost based on the "A", "B", "C" size and distance.

And you can see the rates on the USPS site, just like other services. Sort of a cross between 1st class and Priority mail... Much cheaper than parcel post for larger packages. And no box costs.

But you will need to order your boxes in advance in a lot of places. I was told, but have not confirmed, that some PO's do not stock the Regional Rate boxes.

I was about to use a Regional rate box today for the first time until I found it was the same price as sending a regular box priority mail. The package was being shipped from GA to California. Weight 1.3 lbs. Regional rate A $9.97, Regular Priority Mail box (7 x 7 x 6) $9.97.

You are correct though the post office does not stock them, they have to be ordered. I have had these Regional boxes for nearly a year and never used them.

Karina

[TomG]

You are right that you have to price each shipment individually. What I've found is that the Regional Rate boxes have their place for larger, but lighter items that fit into that niche of too big for the Flat Rate small box and RR are less expensive than the flat rate medium.

[RoosterShooter]

With the items I ship, holsters, I just order 100 USPS Padded Flat Rate Envelopes at a time, and they all come at once. If I start getting low I just reorder, and they arrive before I'm finished with the previous box. I can fit 2 good sized holsters, wrapped in butcher's paper, in each padded flat rate envelope and ship it from my door for $5.15 a package online. You can't beat that.

Also, they now offer $50 insurance for FREE on each package, and if I recall correctly the additional insurance is along the lines of 10 cents per dollar additional insurance. I can't beat that with a hickory stick!

If I were to send the same package through UPS it would cost me around $12 to $14.

I do this all from the comfort of my computer screen and my USPS.com account. I order supplies, and ship all from the same interface, and it's free of charge to use it! Batch orders are a piece of cake! All I do is choose "Batch Order" and it automatically plugs in my shipping information for each label, and gives me the option to 'Add to Batch' after each form.

Edited April 26, 2014 by RoosterShooter

[electrathon]

You may be familiar with mechanics and Hasmat shops but you are a little less informed for shipping product.

We ship between 25,000 and 30,000 packages per year via USPS. To make things easy for our customers we average the shipping costs over the entire spectrum for USA only. Person packaging, checking address for mistakes, printing the label, applying label is paid $20,00 per hour. Some packages we make a few cents on, some we lose a few, it balances out. I guarantee you, we don't make thousands of dollars on the shipping.

ferg

This attitude has always flabbergasted me, to say the least. What possible justification can possibly be used (aside from increased income) fits the above statement. But let me finish. You pay someone to answer the phone and do not gouge your customer for that. You pay someone to sweep the floor and do not gouge your customer for that. You pay someone to web design but do not gouge your customers for that. You pay someone to (on and on and on).....

Bottom line is that "handling is totally and always a gouge fee (the real truth is a less polite word) unless you also add for the dozens of other costs that have nothing to do with production of your product. It is both dishonest and unfair to blindside customers with this extra prophet margin money grab.

But then, you get more money but doing it.

+1

+2

[Ferg]

My wife orders boxes from USPS several times per month, several hundred each time. Best thing ever happened to UPS for us Shippers. They are totally over priced. Sad part is, they know it but had very little competition until Post Office came up with their newest system.

The system I have incorporated into our shipping gives us great rates for all First Class and Priority. We have a credit card on file and pay the balance every month. Never have had to pay fees.

We are also set up with the Post Office and their internal system. We printout a sheet that has all packages we ship in one day with all info. Take the load to them, hand them the printout and leave. Can't beat it.

ferg

[LTC]

i agree with electrathon's post above. very well put.

grossly inflated "shipping" fees (and "handling" fees) are just trickery to pocket more money.

i was going to say something about paying someone $20 an hour to ship stuff, but i'm trying to be nice.

[Ferg]

I shouldn't even try to explain our end of this as several of you think those of us shipping a fairly high amount of product are gouging the customer. You are so wrong.

FYI: The Shipper in our instance, takes any and all phone and e-mail orders or questions, double checks all incoming orders for duplicates or bad addresses, does 100% of the billing for our company. Oh Yes! Almost forgot, she packages every single order that goes out. Most of you haven't got a clue as to what it is to package 500 to 750 packages per day for about 8 months of the year.

Twenty dollars an hour!!!! Good Lord folks she is worth ten times that!

BTW: She is my wife and may God Bless her every day of her life because I do.

ferg

[LTC]

...several of you think those of us shipping a fairly high amount of product are gouging the customer. You are so wrong.

i highly doubt it.

let's do a little math here using your own numbers and the overcharge on shipping as reported elsewhere.

so let's pick a good midrange package total per day of 625 packages. that is from your self-proclaimed "500-750 packages per day", as you stated in the previous post.

then let's say on the conservative side that you're overcharging people by $10 per package. i personally think it's quite a bit higher than that, but will err on the low end and say $10 per package.

...and since certain people can't be bothered to read the FIRST POST in this thread, HERE:

I usually use Ohio Travel Bag for my bulk buys on snaps, rivets, and screw posts.

However, here lately they're charging almost half the amount I pay for the items on shipping!

Is anyone else noticing this?

Today I ordered 3 items in bulk quantities that weighed less than 2 pounds for box and all. Shipping was almost $20! Any 'Savings' you make by purchasing their standard items ... you LOSE on shipping because they charge outrageously high prices for Standard UPS Shipping!

then let's say she works 10 hours a day. again erring in your favor as i'm betting that is lower too.

so...625 packages per day X $10 overcharge per package = $6250.00 gross profit just on shipping overages per day.

deduct her salary from that... $6250.00 - $200 (which was $20×10hrs.) = $6050.00 net profit..........just on how much people are getting overcharged.

i'll let everyone else draw their own conclusions from the math.

yeah. you make "a few cents" on shipping sometimes alright. even if you take into account shipping materials, that cost would be a miniscule part of that $6050.00 per day amount.

FYI: The Shipper in our instance, takes any and all phone and e-mail orders or questions, double checks all incoming orders for duplicates or bad addresses, does 100% of the billing for our company. Oh Yes! Almost forgot, she packages every single order that goes out. Most of you haven't got a clue as to what it is to package 500 to 750 packages per day for about 8 months of the year.

that's not a $20/hr. job. it's not exactly skilled labor.

Twenty dollars an hour!!!! Good Lord folks she is worth ten times that!

BTW: She is my wife and may God Bless her every day of her life because I do.

ferg

oh. i see. so you're letting your emotions dictate that we get gouged on shipping so SHE can get her $20/hr. got it. Edited April 28, 2014 by LTC

[TomG]

LTC - I think you are totally off base here. Ferg commented early in this thread that they use a flat rate to ship. He said he makes a few CENTS on some packages and loses a few CENTS on others.

Where did you come up with him overcharging $10 per package? The only place I saw it was another poster commenting about repair shops charging a hazmat or other $10-$20 fee. That sounds like an auto repair shop.

And if you have ever tried to ship that many packages per day AND get them right, you'd better have someone pretty sharp doing it. They can be well worth $20 an hour. Especially since the job it sounds like she is doing is Office Manager for a small company.

So, you are quick to judge Ferg, and claim he is gouging customers -- tell us how YOU charge for shipping? How many products do you produce? How do you differentiate between that $.25 envelope and the $2 box you have to use depending on quantity? Or the padding some items need that others might not?

Is my $3.50 fee for a leash overcharging?

I'd love to hear your solution

[electrathon]

Is my $3.50 fee for a leash overcharging?

I'd love to hear your solution

$3.50 for shipping, that costs $3.50? Then you are not overcharging. $3.50 handling on top of what it really costs to ship? Then yes, it absolutely is gouging, totally and completely.

The solution is very, very simple. Charge for shipping what it costs to ship.

Charge for the product what the product costs (with your prophet included) what you need to sell the product for. Handling is nothing more than part of the cost of the product, just like sweeping the floor in your shop. Do you have a floor sweeping fee added to your order after the person is told the price?

[TomG]

$3.50 for shipping, that costs $3.50? Then you are not overcharging. $3.50 handling on top of what it really costs to ship? Then yes, it absolutely is gouging, totally and completely.

The solution is very, very simple. Charge for shipping what it costs to ship.

Charge for the product what the product costs (with your prophet included) what you need to sell the product for. Handling is nothing more than part of the cost of the product, just like sweeping the floor in your shop. Do you have a floor sweeping fee added to your order after the person is told the price?

I agree with you - in theory. That would be very nice to do. But at some point, you have to average it out. I think a part of the problem here is the word "handling".

For the majority of sellers, "handling" is not just the time spent packaging, but also the supplies to do so.

Here's part of the problem with most of us charging exact 'postage' costs.

1) Lots of folks - tens of thousands - sell on Etsy and other venues. That service does not have a mechanism to add shipping based on weight and destination - 2 factors needed to calculate it. You have to list 1 cost per item.

2) My main website however, does do a live calculation. As long as I have the product weight correct, it does a pretty good job of calculating the costs and gives the buyer the option of shipping via several methods. But it does a poor job when I have to use different packaging based on quantity

How do you add any real costs into each individual product? Shipping has legitimate costs over the actual postage.

I have items that range from less than 1 ounce to several pounds at times.

Say someone orders a bookmark. That fits into a regular 1st class letter envelope. A regular postage stamp covers it. So what is that now? 47 cents? But, if they order 4 or 5 of them, I can no longer send them in that envelope. I now have to use a 75 cent envelope and postage jumps top $1.93.

If I have added the 10 cents into each bookmark for my envelope costs, I've lost 35 cents on that sale. Plus, they are so light, the website software has no mechanism to know I now have to use an envelope that is more expensive to ship. So, I have also lost another $1.46.

If I were to take manual orders, I could do all of the custom shipping cost stuff. But not with my shopping carts

BUT - again, I agree with you and LTC about gouging on handling in some instances. EBay is a MAJOR example of this. I can not tell you how often I have seen a $10 item that weights 6 ounces and the seller has a $18 S&H fee, for example. That's a ripoff.

So, Honest question here - how do you go about including - packaging, packing slip paper, labels, ink to print them, wear and tear on the printer, tape, gas to drop off at PO or shipper, time to do so, etc. into each individual product when it varies by product?

Effectively, that is.

And I agree that if it take 5 minutes to do all the prep, packaging, etc, and I want to make $20/hour, that's $1.67 in shipping labor and I could just add that to the cost of each item.

Ohio Travel Bag - whose S&H fees started all of this - is a very good company to do business from. I have been using them for years and have never had any issue with them myself. As I mentioned earlier, you can ask them to use the cheapest shipping method and they will do so. Yes, they really do need to fix their website to allow customers to select the best shipping method for them.

Oh, BTW, that leash costs about $2.95 in postage on average, plus the envelope ($.75) plus the other supplies, so, no, I don't make a profit on shipping, in that case anyway.

Later