Ohio Travel Bag ... Has Anyone Else Used Them Lately? *rant*

[Ferg]

I won't tell my wife that she is of lower quality. Some folks just have their head in the sand. Do not mouth off about things you have no understanding of to begin with.

Thank you "TomG", I couldn't have said it better.

When I said a few cents that is what I meant. Where the heck did the $10.00 add on come from?

We have been shipping product since 1977. I believe we know what we are doing. Also, we wholesale everything we manufacture, how long do you think we would have been in business if we were gouging our customers. Another thing, every one of our items is wrapped in bubble wrap, any vacant space is packed with excelsior.

Did I forget to mention, shipping materials and boxes we have to buy, about ten thousand, are figured into the price of the item not shipping cost.

Folks do tend to read what they want the written word to say and not actual print.

ferg

[JLSleather]

I would have done the math the other way around. If someone is shipping 625 packages (middle of the estimated), and gets $20/hour (I won't debate it - just going with what was stated), and works at it (to be generous) 10 hours a day...

That's $200 / day in 'shipping labor'. That's an added cost (average) of $200/625 = 32¢ per package (your numbers, not mine).

Shipping charges + cost of box + cost of packing / tape / etc. + labor cost = actual cost. Anything above that is profit, and I don't know why someone would dispute that. Profit is DEFINED as $$ received less cost of goods (really, ask the IRS).

I just ordered those old patterns from Tandy, they're on closeout. Don't know if I'll ever use 'em, but whatever. Shipping was $12.99, which i found EXTREME for a few packets that will TOTAL about the size of a spiral notebook. I had to force myself not to cancel the (online) order just for principle, since I know that package is going to cost about $3 to ship up here. This kind of thing causes me to limit the times I would order from them. And if they 'stood up' and so staunchly defended their "right" to gouge me with the shipping, I wouldn't buy from them at all.

In the end, if you're okay with the total amount for what you're buying (price + shipping) then there shouldn't be a problem.

OH, I should add -- I don't pay "extra" for insurance on my packages. The SHIPPER is responsible for insuring the package. This is a standard SCAM by sellers. Seriously, if a package is lost or damaged, that's THE SHIPPER'S responsiblilty. If I don't get what I paid for, I'd just have my credit card company reverse the charges. Anybody wondering about this issue .. here's the ENGLISH version. You are entitled by law to either your PURCHASED ITEM or your MONEY. You do not forfeit either one by not purchasing "insurance" (again, that's a HUSTLE intended for anyone who can be sucked in by it)

Edited April 28, 2014 by JLSleather

[LTC]

This kind of thing causes me to limit the times I would order from them. And if they 'stood up' and so staunchly defended their "right" to gouge me with the shipping, I wouldn't buy from them at all.

exactly correct.

also spot on about the insurance scam.

[TomG]

I would have done the math the other way around. If someone is shipping 625 packages (middle of the estimated), and gets $20/hour (I won't debate it - just going with what was stated), and works at it (to be generous) 10 hours a day...

That's $200 / day in 'shipping labor'. That's an added cost (average) of $200/625 = 32¢ per package (your numbers, not mine).

Shipping charges + cost of box + cost of packing / tape / etc. + labor cost = actual cost. Anything above that is profit, and I don't know why someone would dispute that. Profit is DEFINED as $$ received less cost of goods (really, ask the IRS).

I just ordered those old patterns from Tandy, they're on closeout. Don't know if I'll ever use 'em, but whatever. Shipping was $12.99, which i found EXTREME for a few packets that will TOTAL about the size of a spiral notebook. I had to force myself not to cancel the (online) order just for principle, since I know that package is going to cost about $3 to ship up here. This kind of thing causes me to limit the times I would order from them. And if they 'stood up' and so staunchly defended their "right" to gouge me with the shipping, I wouldn't buy from them at all.

In the end, if you're okay with the total amount for what you're buying (price + shipping) then there shouldn't be a problem.

OH, I should add -- I don't pay "extra" for insurance on my packages. The SHIPPER is responsible for insuring the package. This is a standard SCAM by sellers. Seriously, if a package is lost or damaged, that's THE SHIPPER'S responsiblilty. If I don't get what I paid for, I'd just have my credit card company reverse the charges. Anybody wondering about this issue .. here's the ENGLISH version. You are entitled by law to either your PURCHASED ITEM or your MONEY. You do not forfeit either one by not purchasing "insurance" (again, that's a HUSTLE intended for anyone who can be sucked in by it)

And that is pretty much exactly what I was saying. I think the issue started with offense over the word "handling". Your formula is exactly correct. It's just that most businesses lump everything after "Shipping costs" in the Handling part of it.

I also have a major problem paying the excessive handling charges. I don't have a problem paying reasonable ones. And by reasonable, I mean a dollar or 2.

I do realize that there are many, many costs to ship items out that some might not consider. This is more true for large volume businesses than us small, home-based or mom & pop ones. I don't need a crew of people to pick drive a forklift across a warehouse to pull my order, pallets to store them on temporarily, very expensive inventory and control software to direct things, etc.

And all of those things have to be paid for somewhere in the system... It's a cost of doing business and comes out of the selling price of an item or in a handling charge.... but.. we're gonna pay it. Otherwise, the company goes out of business.

But, I have a hard time envisioning that handling cost being $8 - $10 for a small flat rate box of buckles or a first class envelope of patterns.

And yeah, insurance is to protect the sender, not the buyer.....If it isn;t, then why does the sender have to file the claim???

[ChuckBurrows]

• so it's gouging o take into consideration cost of materials and labor - have you ever done a time cost analysis? It's called accounting and to cover one's costs (no one is talking about making a profit except those calling others gougers...

as always I reckon opinions are like backsides...

in over 40 years of doing custom leather and knife work I have NEVER had a customer complain about shipping costs - in fact many adda few bucks on top of my charge to cover hidden costs....

[JLSleather]

more true for large volume businesses than us small, home-based or mom & pop ones. I don't need a crew of people to pick drive a forklift across a warehouse to pull my order, pallets to store them on temporarily, very expensive inventory and control software to direct things, etc.

Yes. But if you have to store and stock 5000 items, then that charge would realistically be applied to ALL of those items - 1/5000 of the cost on each - not the entire amount on EACH item.

And speaking of volume business, they get a BETTER shipping rate than many of us. So, if I can ship that for $3.50, why would I pay them $13?

• so it's gouging o take into consideration cost of materials and labor - have you ever done a time cost analysis? It's called accounting and to cover one's costs (no one is talking about making a profit except those calling others gougers..

OF COURSE they aren't talking about it. That would be like screaming a warning to someone you're trying to sneak up on

Seriously, if I give that girl that answers my phone $10/hour .... do I then charge each person who calls $10? If all that was going on was people "covering their costs" not many would take issue with it. I sure hope they don't cut their throat by trying to tell me that the $12.99 shipping is justified. Because they got away with it (I LET them) doesn't mean it's right, or even okay. Shipping on that is $2.68 (usps). The envelope COULD be a dollar, if you were buying ONE in a retail store. That's about $10 short ...

[blue duck]

Back to Ohio Travel Bag specifically. I just got an invoice emailed to me. "Steamed" is a nice way of putting it. I missed one item on my last order and called Friday to get it. She was really nice and said they would not charge me the under minimum charge, which I though was really nice of them and a great way to keep business. So my total product charge $13, shipping $18. If you are going to hose me, just tell me up front. This could have shipped for less than $1. Don't care what kind of math you use, there is no justification for that!

[TomG]

I was gonna back out of this and leave it alone, but I'm a blabber-mouth and can't help myself.

1) Since I know of few hardware suppliers who carry the depth and volume of our kind of hardware that OTB does, it's hard to go elsewhere for a lot of stuff. So where do I buy that buckle that no one else seems to carry - at least in the quantities I can afford to purchase in?

2) Has anyone complained to OTB about their handling fees?

3) Are you asking for the most economical shipping on your order with them?

I just went back through my last 3 orders from OTB. 1 probably weighed 1 pound - small USPS flat rate Priority box. Charged me $7.75 S&H. Probably cost them $5.05 in postage.

Second order was about 2 pounds. Same small USPS box. $7.79. Not sure what the extra 4 cents in handling was.

Third order I checked. 19 line items. Many solid brass. USPS Priority box. $8.89 S&H.

I really can't complain about $2 - $3 in fixed costs above actual postage.

And anyway, who can I buy from that won't charge above actual shipping costs, either as a shipping charge or rolled into the product?

Oh. As a comparison, I use a lot of aluminum side release buckles in my products. My cost at OTB is $3.40 ea. I DO have another supplier who actually lists their prices to include shipping. (the product quality is inferior to the OTB product)

My cost for 1 is $6.15 ea shipped. OTB would cost me over $10 for 1. Obviously, I don't order 1 at a time.

[cgleathercraft]

When ordering I always look at the shipping and check to see if it justifies the cost/weight/need of an item(s). Only once have I had to call to question the cost of shipping. They worked with me and I have never had an issue with their shipping charges since. They assured me they only charge the actual cost of shipping and I believe I have never been taken for a sucker from them (Tandy). My one and only rule for cost of shipping to me - Is that item(s) worth the cost + shipping to me. That alone will determine whether or not I order.

At my stage in leather working i have not had the luxury of shipping any items. This is my hobby and I don't have any overhead associated with shipping. So I'm going to charge actual cost.

If the day ever comes that I have the requirement of someone sitting down and verifying/packing/shipping my work. That extra cost WILL be factored in. At that point I will own a business. If I don't do it in the shipping costs, it will be factored into the item cost. I may not explicitly say that $2 for every item is for the person sweeping the floor, but I would have to pay their wages somehow. Not saying prices would increase with each person hired, just that the bottom line has to be taken into account.

Everyone's situation is different so take it for what its worth, it's just text on a computer screen after all.