what would you do?

[tashabear]

Froghunter did me a good turn the other day, and referred a caller to his store to me. I guess the guy had been calling, asking about leather and tools and whatnot, and finally told him that he just wanted someone to make some small items for him. So Froghunter, being the swell guy that he is, gave him my contact info and told him that I'd be happy to oblige.

The guy called me and we chatted, and he said that he was really all about the quality of handmade, bespoke goods, and that he wanted two notepad covers for a 3x5 spiral bound notebook and a trifold wallet. No tooling, just dyeing, but I'd still have to develop the patterns, cut everything, punch the holes, dye it all, and stitch it together. Not a big deal, but it all takes time. I told him that I'd have to do a little math, and that I'd get back to him with a price.

I emailed him later that night and gave him the price, describing exactly what he was getting for the money. The next morning, I got an response that said he'd "let me know what he wants to do." Now, I've been brushed off before, and that's just what this smells like.

I'm sure other folks here have experienced this phenomenon. What do you do? Do you just let it go, reasoning that if they don't want to pay what your time, effort, and materials are worth, you don't want to do business with them? Or do you poke at them a bit, and email or call a week or so after you give them the quote to see if they're still interested? I'm torn. So the question is: WWLWD (What Would LW Do)?

[Mike Craw]

Tashabear,

I think the term is "follow up"...not "poke at them."

If, after a week or two and a polite follow up call, you still get, "I'll let you know" then you have, in all likelyhood, been brushed of. I would then agree with your first option and just decide that he didn't want to pay for quality...and let it go.

Just my two cents worth.

Mike

[TwinOaks]

Yep, what Mike said. However, I'd limit it to one follow up contact, about a week after. Any more than that and you're begging for work. Even if you don't have a customer willing to pay for quality, you still have two new patterns.

Edited October 18, 2008 by TwinOaks

[Pip]

You can always say that you have another customer who is waiting on the leather as it is great quality and you have promised to give him first refusal before you say yes to the next job, that does four things.

1. Lets him know your busy and time is precious, and you are not begging for work.

2. gives him the option to duck out and do the decent thing and let you know, without alienating him from coming back with a proper purchase.

3. gets you out of sounding like your desperate for work from rude people who don't contact you back. Or if we give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has had something take precidence over letting you know, he can firm up the order there and then or at least back oput to free up your schedule.

4. It adds value to what you make, ie he got it first, the best quality etc etc.

And it isn't exactluy untruthful you will have other customers asking for stuff, so its just a matter of forethought, prophecy or something like that.

Do not drop your price, or you set up every customer to do the same thing, ie If we let them stew they'll drop their price!

My 2p's worth.

and as twin oaks says you'll have two new patterns!

[Johanna]

And never ever take on work without getting half your money up front. If they punk out, at least you won't be out the cost of your materials.

Johanna

[Pip]

And never ever take on work without getting half your money up front. If they punk out, at least you won't be out the cost of your materials.

Johanna

Wise words indeed! Oh, great sage of the forum lol

Edited October 18, 2008 by Pip

[Dale]

Don't take it personally. You describe it as a brush-off, but I really consider it "undecided" or "unprepared" (for what it actually costs). Granted, the guy could use some social skills (don't say "I'll get back to you" if there's a possibility you won't). In truth, I do the same sort of thing myself..."I need to think about it," or "I want to look around a little first." It doesn't matter if I'm dealing with a mom-and-pop or a chain store. I'm just not prepared to commit yet. If you're looking for recommendations, mine would be to just let it go. If he comes back, great. If he doesn't, you really haven't lost anything. Remember it's normal customer/client behavior. You'll get more of them (maybe a lot) and it's not going to productive to get frustrated about them.

[tashabear]

Don't take it personally. You describe it as a brush-off, but I really consider it "undecided" or "unprepared" (for what it actually costs). Granted, the guy could use some social skills (don't say "I'll get back to you" if there's a possibility you won't). In truth, I do the same sort of thing myself..."I need to think about it," or "I want to look around a little first." It doesn't matter if I'm dealing with a mom-and-pop or a chain store. I'm just not prepared to commit yet. If you're looking for recommendations, mine would be to just let it go. If he comes back, great. If he doesn't, you really haven't lost anything. Remember it's normal customer/client behavior. You'll get more of them (maybe a lot) and it's not going to productive to get frustrated about them.

It wouldn't irritate me so if he hadn't made a point of telling me about these expensive bespoke shoes he bought in Germany, making a point that he was in it for the quality. Did he seriously think I'd do this for costs? That's just insulting, and why I don't sew or knit for pay. No one is willing to pay what my skills are worth there, because at this point, I'm a lot better knitter than I am a leatherworker, and I don't think anyone wants to pay me $2000 for a handknit lace shawl.

[Hennessy]

Froghunter did me a good turn the other day, and referred a caller to his store to me. I guess the guy had been calling, asking about leather and tools and whatnot, and finally told him that he just wanted someone to make some small items for him. So Froghunter, being the swell guy that he is, gave him my contact info and told him that I'd be happy to oblige.

The guy called me and we chatted, and he said that he was really all about the quality of handmade, bespoke goods, and that he wanted two notepad covers for a 3x5 spiral bound notebook and a trifold wallet. No tooling, just dyeing, but I'd still have to develop the patterns, cut everything, punch the holes, dye it all, and stitch it together. Not a big deal, but it all takes time. I told him that I'd have to do a little math, and that I'd get back to him with a price.

I emailed him later that night and gave him the price, describing exactly what he was getting for the money. The next morning, I got an response that said he'd "let me know what he wants to do." Now, I've been brushed off before, and that's just what this smells like.

I'm sure other folks here have experienced this phenomenon. What do you do? Do you just let it go, reasoning that if they don't want to pay what your time, effort, and materials are worth, you don't want to do business with them? Or do you poke at them a bit, and email or call a week or so after you give them the quote to see if they're still interested? I'm torn. So the question is: WWLWD (What Would LW Do)?

box up some toilet paper that has a lil brown dye on it ,mark 'sample' on outside n mail it to th dude when he calls b nice n tell him u can do it all.

[tashabear]

And never ever take on work without getting half your money up front. If they punk out, at least you won't be out the cost of your materials.

Johanna

I knew I jumped the gun by buying the leather, and I did spend the time making the pattern for the notepad. But I have a show coming up in January, so they'll both get used, and it was only $20 anyway. But I wasn't going to start making anything for him, especially the wallet, without a deposit.

[tashabear]

box up some toilet paper that has a lil brown dye on it ,mark 'sample' on outside n mail it to th dude when he calls b nice n tell him u can do it all.

Well, not only am I not sure what that's supposed to accomplish, I don't have his mailing address.

[$$hobby]

And never ever take on work without getting half your money up front. If they punk out, at least you won't be out the cost of your materials.

Johanna

thats what i would do.

however, if the work was something that could probably sell quick, i would probably do it.

you should also figure, alot of people are "window shopping" too and until they realize/understand how much the project will cost may not have an idea and either go or drop the project.

another thing too. is if you do make them anyway, you can always use the items as "demo" items on your talents/skills.

Edited October 18, 2008 by $$hobby

[Hennessy]

Well, not only am I not sure what that's supposed to accomplish, I don't have his mailing address.

sorry fer th pun,40 years of scratchin lea has run me up on these people,i guess th best thing is wot yer doin and anylizein a way around the frustation ,with a plan to avoid in th future.have a catalog or two of lea stuff u like to make n use it, as a starting point ,usually figure higher than retail n believe in yerself adios peter john

[Windy]

Froghunter did me a good turn the other day, and referred a caller to his store to me. I guess the guy had been calling, asking about leather and tools and whatnot, and finally told him that he just wanted someone to make some small items for him. So Froghunter, being the swell guy that he is, gave him my contact info and told him that I'd be happy to oblige.

The guy called me and we chatted, and he said that he was really all about the quality of handmade, bespoke goods, and that he wanted two notepad covers for a 3x5 spiral bound notebook and a trifold wallet. No tooling, just dyeing, but I'd still have to develop the patterns, cut everything, punch the holes, dye it all, and stitch it together. Not a big deal, but it all takes time. I told him that I'd have to do a little math, and that I'd get back to him with a price.

I emailed him later that night and gave him the price, describing exactly what he was getting for the money. The next morning, I got an response that said he'd "let me know what he wants to do." Now, I've been brushed off before, and that's just what this smells like.

I'm sure other folks here have experienced this phenomenon. What do you do? Do you just let it go, reasoning that if they don't want to pay what your time, effort, and materials are worth, you don't want to do business with them? Or do you poke at them a bit, and email or call a week or so after you give them the quote to see if they're still interested? I'm torn. So the question is: WWLWD (What Would LW Do)?

Tasha,

I have to agree with Dale. If you plan on doing business with the public

you will find this happens quite a bit. For different reasons each time.Some

times the price is way more than thought and other times after they have

had time to think it over while waiting on a price they realize they really

did not want it. Sometimes they are shopping around , even if one is willing

to pay for top quality work they will still shop around. After being in business

for over thirty years , I have never called anyone and ask if they forgot me

or if they still want something. I tell them all when I give them a price it is

good for 15 days. After that I will have to re-evaluate the price due to the

ever increasing price of supplies.If you get frustrated every time this happens

you are in for a frustrating life. I know many artist who flat out refuse to

do commission work for a multitude of different reasons. Mostly it turns out

that an artists conception is never the same as the lay-mans (customer).

WINDY

[UKRay]

Tasha,

I have to agree with Dale. If you plan on doing business with the public

you will find this happens quite a bit. For different reasons each time.Some

times the price is way more than thought and other times after they have

had time to think it over while waiting on a price they realize they really

did not want it. Sometimes they are shopping around , even if one is willing

to pay for top quality work they will still shop around. After being in business

for over thirty years , I have never called anyone and ask if they forgot me

or if they still want something. I tell them all when I give them a price it is

good for 15 days. After that I will have to re-evaluate the price due to the

ever increasing price of supplies.If you get frustrated every time this happens

you are in for a frustrating life. I know many artist who flat out refuse to

do commission work for a multitude of different reasons. Mostly it turns out

that an artists conception is never the same as the lay-mans (customer).

WINDY

Tashabear, I completely agree with Windy. I can't remember any occasion when I have chased after someone and actually got the job without dropping the price or losing in some other way. Best to take a wise man's advice and tell them at the outset they have fifteen days to make a purchase or the price needs to be re-evaluated.

One thing I do that may help is to have a Word template for my quotes that says all that stuff and also states my trading conditions. It may also be worth thinking about writing a code of practice as it helps to make the way you want to do business clear in your own mind - I am happy to post mine here if anyone is interested enough to want to see it.

[Tina]

Hi, my 2 cents...

In my book that's a brush of and I would never chases them down, my time is to pressious IF they are interested they will be back. In my experience very few of the "I'll be back" ever comes back.

Johanna, you're much nicer than I am, I actually don't start without having it all paid for including the shipping, then...Most of my stuff (names and such) is so personal so it's impossible to sell to someone else.

[tashabear]

Hi, my 2 cents...In my book that's a brush of and I would never chases them down, my time is to pressious IF they are interested they will be back. In my experience very few of the "I'll be back" ever comes back.Johanna, you're much nicer than I am, I actually don't start without having it all paid for including the shipping, then...Most of my stuff (names and such) is so personal so it's impossible to sell to someone else.

That's why I'm not fussed about the actual goods -- they're plain as plain can be, so even if I can't sell them they'll make nice gifts.

One thing I do that may help is to have a Word template for my quotes that says all that stuff and also states my trading conditions. It may also be worth thinking about writing a code of practice as it helps to make the way you want to do business clear in your own mind - I am happy to post mine here if anyone is interested enough to want to see it.

I'd like to see that very much.

[UKRay]

Here you go Tashabear - In the interest of privacy I have removed my address details. Remember this is a fairly inclusive statement about the way I intend to do business and covers all aspects of it not just sales. It was produced mainly for my own benefit as it lays out the way I want to deal with folk and how I want them to deal with me. It is not in any way an 'I'm better than you' sort of document, just a calm statement that says 'if you want to deal with me then this is how it is going to be'. Having given this to a prospective customer I often feel I have a lot to live up to - not a bad thing really as it keeps me focussed. It also helps to keep them on the 'straight and narrow' as you can always quote it at them if they step out of line...

I ought to say that this document was based on a number of other CoPs but is essentially mine to give away. Feel free to copy/reproduce/share as you see fit. You can even change the spelling if you like!

Code of Practice

Confidentiality

I am committed to maintaining the highest degree of integrity in all my dealings with potential, current and past clients, both in terms of normal commercial confidentiality, and the protection of all personal information received in the course of providing my services. I extend the same standards to all my customers, suppliers and associates.

Ethics

I always conduct my own services honestly and honourably, and expect my clients and suppliers to do the same. My advice will always take proper account of ethical considerations.

Duty of care

My actions and advice will always conform to relevant law, and I believe that businesses and organisations should avoid causing any adverse effect on the human rights of people in the organisations we deal with, the local and wider environments, and the well-being of society at large.

Proposals

My proposals including aims, activities, costs, timescales and deliverables are valid for fifteen days. After this time they may be subject to re-evaluation.

Contracts

My contract will usually require acceptance of a detailed proposal, including aims, activities, costs, timescales and deliverables. The quality of my service and the value of my support provide the only true basis for continuity.

Fees

My fees are always competitive and reflect the quality of the service I provide. As such I do not generally offer arbitrary discounts; generally a reduction in price is only enabled by reducing the level or extent of services to be delivered.

That said, I always try to propose solutions which accommodate my clients' available budgets and timescales. Wherever possible I agree my fees and basis of charges clearly in advance, so that I, and my clients, can plan reliably for what lies ahead, and how it is to be achieved and financially justified.

Payment

I aim to be as flexible as possible in the way that my services are charged. Some clients prefer fixed project fees; others are happier with stage payments, and I try to fit in with what will be best for the client. I make no attempt to charge interest on late payments, so I expect payments to be made when agreed. My terms are generally net monthly.

Intellectual property and moral rights

I retain the moral rights in, and ownership of, all intellectual property that I create unless agreed otherwise in advance with my clients. In return I respect the moral and intellectual copyright vested in my clients' intellectual property.

Quality assurance

I maintain the quality of what I do through constant ongoing review with my clients, of all aims, projects, outcomes and the cost-effectiveness of every project. I encourage regular review meetings and provide regular progress reports.

Professional conduct

I conduct all of my activities professionally and with integrity. I take great care to be completely objective in my judgement and any recommendations that I give, so that issues are never influenced by anything other than the best and proper interests of my clients.

Equality and discrimination

I always strive to be fair and objective in my advice and actions, and I am never influenced in my decisions, actions or recommendations by issues of gender, race, creed, colour, age or personal disability.

Edited October 18, 2008 by UKRay

[TwinOaks]

Ray, that's a valuable thing to have on the wall, and it's very succinct. Thank you for sharing it with us.

[Hilly]

We have our own saying in our small business:

Bull$hit walks, money talks.

If someone is serious, they'll make a down payment, or give you some "good faith" money towards your goods or services.

We never take anyone serious until they show me the money.

[Kevin King]

Be backs aint green backs!

Spend your energy on something more productive than chasing down tire kickers.

If you do send a follow up, make sure you go for the close and ask them how they want to pay the deposit.

KK

[tashabear]

Be backs aint green backs!

Spend your energy on something more productive than chasing down tire kickers.

If you do send a follow up, make sure you go for the close and ask them how they want to pay the deposit.

KK

I'll keep checking my email, because I have other stuff in the works. If he does actually go for it, I'll be pleasantly surprised. If not, I'll put together the notepad cover anyway and post it on Etsy -- for exactly what I was going to charge him.

[swivelsphinx]

Hey.

I know this post is old, but I'm gonna respond anyway. If you *really* feel like giving the situation the benefit of the doubt, place a "follow up" call, or send your follow up in an e-mail. Do not under any circumstances offer to drop your price at this point. "Shop rate" for most professionals is $65.00 per hour MINIMUM across the board. Think about what a plumber, tattooist, carpenter or blacksmith would charge per hour. It took me over a decade to realize that there will always be people out there who don't appreciate the value hand labor- it is my job to encourage them to continue to do so, nor yours. If the dude continues to hem and haws, all you can do is leave 'im with contact info, and seek greener pastures. If he wants cheap crap, he can go to the mall or a fleamarket.

[jrny4wrd]

You can sell the pattern on etsy as well.

[Grey Drakkon]