DarkGoku Report post Posted February 10, 2015 I just received my Cobra class 4:) never owned or even used a sewing machine before. its a challenge, but what I would like to know is, how do I make using this easier? I hand stitch everything, so when I received my tax return, I bought the cobra. no telling when an opportunity would allow me another chance, so I jumped. is there any advice on practices or even places that instruct on this matter:) I have tons of crap, and soon that will run out at the rate I'm going. I only ask, because I really don't want to learn poor habits, instead id like advice of some good habits to build on. Thank you:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greystone Report post Posted February 11, 2015 Ck Al Bane videos, a lot of scrap till you think you have the feel and do some simple things be ready to adjust and redo a couple times then practice again, don't be too frustrated do some practice gussets and any other things that you did by hand just like hand work you will have some thing you throw in a box and never look at again I love my cobra 4 and I'm very happy with it except when I screw up the machine is solid and most of my fu's are my error Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JREESER1 Report post Posted February 11, 2015 Memorize the videos, both Cobra Steve's and the two Cobra 4 videos from Al Bane on you-tube. Practice, practice, practice.Tension, tension, tension.......Get used to getting the knot centered in the middle of the piece. Look for wads or bird nests on the reverse side of the stich. This means making certain you have threaded the machine and bobbin correctly. When you practice go from thin, to thick, then back to thin, making sure the top thread loop is centered. Every time you get ready to sew an item, do practice seams on a piece of the same thickness and layers before you actually start to stich the project. GO SLOW, at first. I have never had the confidence to start sewing at any medium or fast setting of the servo. You will get the hang of beginning the process the same way every session. Be sure to get a variety of polyester threads, from 138, 207 to 277, and needles from 21, 23 to 25. Keep the machine well lubed, but not saturated. Listen for any change in sounds or any binding, it will not heal itself or get better. Finally hold onto the top and bobbin threads for at least the first 2 or 3 stiches. This will insure your top thread is centered at the very beginning of your seam. You will continually run into new issues and problems that will end when you get into a routine and comfortable the more you use your machine. The more you use your creativity, and practice, the more you will impress yourself. Continue to use these forums for answers to any issues, or problems and to brag about how much you have learned and improved. jr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wishful Report post Posted February 11, 2015 Watch the Arthur porter videos on you tube and sailrite.com has a lot of good videos in their video library too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkGoku Report post Posted February 11, 2015 Thank you so much for the advice:) I stayed up last night just sewing and I'm actually getting used to the petals and the speed. I have a hard time using reverse, but I found a great video showing to take a square piece and just run along the borders, and at every turn back up 3 stitches and then forward. I've been practicing that last night:D You guys have given me a lot of great advice and I pray that I'll be able to pay it forward some day! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkGoku Report post Posted February 11, 2015 Is there a way to achieve a strong stitch like a saddle stitch with this machine? A way to sew and still maintain a quality strength as you get with hand stitching? I heard a sewing machine can't give a quality stitch. Is this true? Or technique? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horseplay Report post Posted February 11, 2015 Yep, I second everything Jr said. It's all about practice. Keep in mind it's a machine made for heavy leathers. Very lightweight leathers don't work well through it. I got one a couple years ago and love, love, love it! I did grow up sewing so my learning curve of the machine was minor. And I will say I prefer my big Cobra Calss 4 to any normal fabric machine now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Is there a way to achieve a strong stitch like a saddle stitch with this machine? A way to sew and still maintain a quality strength as you get with hand stitching? I heard a sewing machine can't give a quality stitch. Is this true? Or technique? For years, folks around leather wurkin' campfires have been goin' on about the need for a saddle stitch. Not to take anything from that -- it works great, simple to learn, and looks nice. 50 years (ish) ago, there was a book published about hand sewing leather. That book said that with a lockstitch, when the thread breaks the seam can unravel. And people have been parroting that ever since (you know the routine - having no knowledge won't keep people from talking). But the actual strength is in the leather and the thread. And a guy with an awl and harness needles can botch a stitch job as well as the guy with a machine Stab an awl at the wrong angle, or too close together, ... not good. You'll find there's a vast range of threads and needles, many of them will work with that machine. Not to bore you to no end, but keep in mind that a 24 needle (for example) that is not "A" needle .. that's a size, but you can get size 24 needles for your machine that result in a very different stitch. One buries deeper than the next. One leaves a very straight stitch line, where the next one gives an angled/offset stitch, etc. This could go on.. but seriously, machines stitch parachute harness, just for an idea of strength. But, test it yourself. Take two narrow strips. Leave a couple inches at the end NOT stitched, to get a grip on. Stitch the edges like a belt with your machine. Trim the end threads out of your way. Now --- grab those ends you left for grip, and pull it apart... Better yet. Take that same piece, with the edges stitched, and CUT the thread somewhere in the middle of the seam. Not the leather, just cut the thread. Now, pull or tug or twist the project, and let us know what you had to do to get that seam to start coming out ... Edited February 11, 2015 by JLSleather Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwinOaks Report post Posted February 11, 2015 A machine CAN and often DOES give a quality stitch. It won't look just like a saddle stitch, but it can get very close. As far as strength...the tensile strength of the thread is pretty high, and you're not likely to break it. If you prefer the angled stitching, you can get needles that will do that. What you're going through is a little buyer's remorse. Sit down and make a double layer belt, and sew it. 10 minutes later, when you're NOT still sewing the belt, you'll start realizing that you made a good purchasing decision because: You bought a good machine, from a reputable dealer that's going to support you and the machine long after the sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt T Report post Posted February 11, 2015 A machine cannot do a saddle stitch, but I don't know where you heard that a sewing machine can't give a quality stitch. There are pluses and minuses to each, but a well done machine stitch should work great for most circumstances. If you want to, you can always hand stitch high stress areas like handles. The downsides to the sewing machine that I'm aware of are that you can't really use certain thread such as waxed linen, and IF the thread breaks, it will be easier to unravel more stitches than a saddle stitch. The downside to hand stitching is that it takes forever. Is there a way to achieve a strong stitch like a saddle stitch with this machine? A way to sew and still maintain a quality strength as you get with hand stitching? I heard a sewing machine can't give a quality stitch. Is this true?Or technique? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geneva Report post Posted February 11, 2015 The biggest drawback to machine stitch is the fact that there is twice the thread in a hand stitch than there is in a machine stitch. Machine stitching is ten times faster than hand sewing and only 1/2 the strength but you will not pull it apart. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Cent Report post Posted February 11, 2015 http://www.schmetzneedles.com/learning/pdf/leather-needles.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkGoku Report post Posted February 11, 2015 I did try the pulling apart bit, and the saddle stitch vs machine stitch. I found the saddle stitch was stronger but it had taken a lot of effort on both styles. either way ifound they both have there benefits to their application. thank you for the advice because, I feel confident about my options:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ENC Report post Posted February 12, 2015 Geniva, can you explain why there is twice as much thread in hand stitching? I always thought they were about the same. Both methods have threads top and bottom and they both go through the holes twice. The only difference I see is that machine stitching makes a u-turn inside the holes. Thanks, Ray Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) fact that there is twice the thread in a hand stitch than there is in a machine stitch..... Wait.... what... ? The lock stitch does "make a u-turn" in the hole, and the saddle stitch 'makes a u-turn" on the surface of the leather (or in a groove), so in theory the saddle stitch would have a thread longer by the amount of the difference between the thickness of the leather and half the thickness of the leather twice for each stitch. Tha's hardta say 3 times fast, but I know what I meant Let's try that idea .... Say you stitch a 40" seam of 8 oz leather - just because it's even numbers. Oh, keep in mind it matters how many stitches, so lets say 6 per inch.Both threads start outside the leather. The lock stitch goes HALF WAY THROUGH the leather, AND BACK, so one thickness (1/2 in and 1/2 out). Thus, it 'travels' 1/8" (8 oz) plus 1/6" to get ready for the next stitch. That's about .292" each thread, so 2 threads is .584" per stitch. 40" times 6/inch = 240 stitches, so a total of about 140" of thread (6 feet twice). The saddle stitch goes THROUGH the leather, so one thickness. Thus it 'travels' 1/8" (8oz) plus 1/6" to get ready for the next stitch. That's about .292" each thread, so 2 threads is .584" per stitch. 40" times 6/inch = 240 stitches, so a total of about 140" of thread (6 feet twice). Crap.. wait.. did I do that right, or did I miss soemthing? It APPEARS that if the leather is the same, and the stitch length is the same, and the thread tension and/or stretch is the same, then the thread length would be the same. Yes? No? Edited February 12, 2015 by JLSleather Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwinOaks Report post Posted February 12, 2015 Me too Jeff..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt T Report post Posted February 13, 2015 I think you guys are over-thinking this. Hand stitch and machine stitch use about the same amount of thread. Each side of the hand stitch goes all the way through the thickness of the leather, and each side of the machine stitch goes up and down half of the thickness, equaling a distance of the full leather thickness on each side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkGoku Report post Posted February 13, 2015 this is crazy, how a conversation evolves:) its something to think about! I love a good saddle stitch, but I worry now that I have this awesome machine, ill get lazy and start using it in place of hand stitching. I do feel that a saddle stitch is a more durable stitch, but do I need it for every sewing project, or when is it good practice to swap between the two? I've seen videos of people using both for the same type of projects, but is it a good thing or a bad, lazy thing? how do you know when to alternate? or if that's even wise? I bought this to save my fingers, but its hard to break away from hand stitching, with the worry that my product might fall apart. Am I crazy to think this? Please know that I understand (why buy if you don't need it?) , but I purchased this because I had the money. I didn't want to have to buy one down the road if I didn't have the money... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkGoku Report post Posted February 13, 2015 I do want to say that this thread has been very helpful, and I respect each and everyone's opinion. Everyone here really knows their craft, and every time I get advice, I feel the drive to jump in and try it out:) Thank you again:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted February 13, 2015 If you're using the machine like it should be used, I wouldn't worry about projects coming apart. I make belts (among other stuff). I stitch the edges. Strength isn't really an issue at all - more than one layer gets glued together with glue so strong the stitch is basically decorative (find me that guy says he can pull it apart before stitching). Don't throw out the awl and harness needles, though -- you may find there are projects requiring sewing which can't be stuck in the machine. And, sometimes, you may find that while your project "could" be done in the machine, the things you would need to do to get it there aren't worth the time. I mean, if you have 5 projects that would require different settings, you change the settings, stitch what you need to, then put the settings back. But, if you have ONE project that would require changes, perhaps you just saddle stitch that one? I have a couple of projects I make that simply aren't going to work in the machines. Perhaps in SOME machine, but not mine... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkGoku Report post Posted February 13, 2015 What kind of glue do you use! I have been using that EcoWeld, and it does not impress! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted February 13, 2015 If you're used to shopping at tandy, that tanner's bond contact cement is good stuff. Price-wise, I get tbe Barge cement, which is quite good. Basically like paying for 2 quarts and getting 2 quarts free (compared to quart price). But I mention the tanners bond because you mention a tandy product, and that is one I have personally used. Either one.. you won't pull it apart once it sets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwinOaks Report post Posted February 13, 2015 There's Tanner's Bond, Master's, Barge.....and my personal preference (since I can buy it at a local hardware store) Weldwood. They are all very good contact cements, which are chemically different from "white glue"....which is often times just a variant of PVA (Poly-Vinyl-Alcohol). As Jeff said, you won't pull it apart - but you CAN tear the leather fibers if you try hard enough. I mix machine stitching and saddle stitching - I don't like the doubled up threads in a lock stitch (because of the angle of my needles), so I leave a tail and saddle stitch my thread locks. That also gives me the option to add a half-stitch, which leaves both threads on the same side of the leather. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25b Report post Posted February 13, 2015 ..."white glue"....which is often times just a variant of PVA (Poly-Vinyl-Alcohol). PVA = Polyvinyl acetate...not "(Poly-Vinyl-Alcohol)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_acetate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwinOaks Report post Posted February 14, 2015 Ah....I stand corrected. Yes, the acetate is the glue, derived from the alcohol. Let this be a lesson, kids, stay up to date with your industrial chemistry! And please excuse my use of the hyphens, spiel Czech was having a hard time with chemical names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
