Another *your Opinion* Thread

[JerseyFirefighter]

Hello guys and gals. Im sorry to beat this topic like the dead horse that it is in the sewing machine world. Ive read some very good information in this sub and appreciate the expertise. The only problem I seem to have is that most suggestions for machines are well over a thousand dollars. As a newer hobbiest just starting to get his feet wet into selling items I would like to know if there are suitable machines that can withstand the rigors of sewing leather on a small volume scale for the interim before I know that sewing is for me, and that a few thousand dollars seem more like a wise investment than a risk.

I started looking into vintage singers and even then find it difficult to wade through all of the models over the years. My main materials would just be sewing a thin lining on 9-10oz leather. Would something like a Singer 251-2, juki ddl555-5, or a Singer 121h be viable options? are there any recommended machines that can be had within the $200-500 range? Id have no problem selling the machine off when im comfortable and ready to upgrade. Thank you for your input in advance.

Edited October 11, 2015 by JerseyFirefighter

[Gump]

Look around for a Singer 111, or a Consew 225/226. These machines are tanks and can sew up to 3/8" with 138 thread. You may find other copies of these machines at reasonable prices, but be sure to look for a triple feed, walking foot machine.

[Constabulary]

Agree with Gump - the machines should have walking foot / compound feed.

I copied my answer from an other thread:

If you are looking for a used flat bed machine check for Adler (or Chandler) 67 / 167, Singer 111w155 / 111w156, Singer 211 (don´t know all the sub classes), Pfaff 145 / 545, Juki 562 / 563, Consew 226, Consew 206 just to mention some of the most common models. Some older machines may not have a reveres function.

if you are unsure check with one of the dealers who have banners on top of this site. Most have new and used machines. They may cost more but you are buying serviced machines and you have support from the dealer.

I think www.Keysew.com is too not far away from you

[JerseyFirefighter]

Thank you both. I will look into those models and vendors. I guess truth be told since they really dont lose much value, when im ready to step up to the big boy table I can offset the cost with selling whichever one I pick up.

[Colt W Knight]

If you look long and hard enough, used machines pop up that are in the 400-500$ range. However, New machines capable of doing any real leather work are going to be well over $1000

[JerseyFirefighter]

If you look long and hard enough, used machines pop up that are in the 400-500$ range. However, New machines capable of doing any real leather work are going to be well over $1000

I was expecting for it to be a used machine for the reason you stated above. Just something to push me down that road before making a substantial financial committment as a hobbyist.

[Colt W Knight]

I was expecting for it to be a used machine for the reason you stated above. Just something to push me down that road before making a substantial financial committment as a hobbyist.

Used leather machines don't pop up often, so finding a good deal on a used machine is tough. I looked for almost a year, but I finaly found a good used Consew 206 for $400. Then I spent ~250$ on a servo motor, new needles, thead, and a few mecanical issues. At the time, that machine was 1300 new. Before that, I tried to make an old Singer cast iron machine work, and it just wouldn't do what i needed it to do. Luckily, I cleaned it up real well and sold it to a lady who wanted to use it as a decoration in her house.

Best of luck with your search.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Colt W Knight

[Wizcrafts]

I was expecting for it to be a used machine for the reason you stated above. Just something to push me down that road before making a substantial financial committment as a hobbyist.

If you buy a real walking foot machine, it will sew up to between 5/16 and 3/8 inch of material, with #138 thread. Most modern walking foot machines yield up to 4 stitches per inch and some go even longer. This means you could buy some Kevlar thread and repair small tears in your work suit. They are invaluable machines for hemming denim pants, sewing patches onto vests, installing zippers, sewing linings to belts and cases, or assembling wallets or sewing banners and tarps along the edges. Triple feed makes the stitch length consistent, even on very long projects.

Note: very old model walking foot machines usually lack reverse and often have strange ways of setting the stitch length, and no protection of the shuttle system if the thread gets jammed inside the bobbin case and shaft. Modern machines will have a stitch length rotary dial, a palm operated reverse lever and a clutch that disengages the shuttle drive in the event of a thread jam. Most also have a much larger bobbin than any of the old machines (Consew type M or Juki LU).

[dikman]

Jersey, permit me to offer my (admittedly limited) experiences with industrial leather sewing machines. I was given a Singer post machine (a straight stitcher), which I had high hopes for, but through much experimenting and lots of reading of the great advice on this forum, I eventually realised that for sewing leather a walking foot machine (preferably a compound feed) is the only thing worth considering. You will be struggling with anything else.

That first Singer is a great machine, for what it's designed for, and I'm sure it will be very useful, but I broke quite a few needles before I figured out that it doesn't like thick/stiff leather! So I just kept looking for a suitable used machine, and whenever I saw one I looked up the model details on the 'net to find out what it was, and it's amazing how each time there were links to this forum! Shows what a great resource it is. I'm slowly learning which models are which, and which ones are worth having.

[JerseyFirefighter]

Used leather machines don't pop up often, so finding a good deal on a used machine is tough. I looked for almost a year, but I finaly found a good used Consew 206 for $400. Then I spent ~250$ on a servo motor, new needles, thead, and a few mecanical issues. At the time, that machine was 1300 new. Before that, I tried to make an old Singer cast iron machine work, and it just wouldn't do what i needed it to do. Luckily, I cleaned it up real well and sold it to a lady who wanted to use it as a decoration in her house.

Best of luck with your search.

If you buy a real walking foot machine, it will sew up to between 5/16 and 3/8 inch of material, with #138 thread. Most modern walking foot machines yield up to 4 stitches per inch and some go even longer. This means you could buy some Kevlar thread and repair small tears in your work suit. They are invaluable machines for hemming denim pants, sewing patches onto vests, installing zippers, sewing linings to belts and cases, or assembling wallets or sewing banners and tarps along the edges. Triple feed makes the stitch length consistent, even on very long projects.

Note: very old model walking foot machines usually lack reverse and often have strange ways of setting the stitch length, and no protection of the shuttle system if the thread gets jammed inside the bobbin case and shaft. Modern machines will have a stitch length rotary dial, a palm operated reverse lever and a clutch that disengages the shuttle drive in the event of a thread jam. Most also have a much larger bobbin than any of the old machines (Consew type M or Juki LU).

Jersey, permit me to offer my (admittedly limited) experiences with industrial leather sewing machines. I was given a Singer post machine (a straight stitcher), which I had high hopes for, but through much experimenting and lots of reading of the great advice on this forum, I eventually realised that for sewing leather a walking foot machine (preferably a compound feed) is the only thing worth considering. You will be struggling with anything else.

That first Singer is a great machine, for what it's designed for, and I'm sure it will be very useful, but I broke quite a few needles before I figured out that it doesn't like thick/stiff leather! So I just kept looking for a suitable used machine, and whenever I saw one I looked up the model details on the 'net to find out what it was, and it's amazing how each time there were links to this forum! Shows what a great resource it is. I'm slowly learning which models are which, and which ones are worth having.

Thank you gentlemen for your input. I guess this was the kick in the rear I was looking for to sit back and take stock of what direction I really should be heading. I probably should refirect my train of thought to "buy once, cry once" then fumbling about with learning to sew on a machine that cant handle the job I would like to use it for. It seems I'll put a little more time and a fair amount more money towards the machine budget.

[Wizcrafts]

Thank you gentlemen for your input. I guess this was the kick in the rear I was looking for to sit back and take stock of what direction I really should be heading. I probably should redirect my train of thought to "buy once, cry once" then fumbling about with learning to sew on a machine that cant handle the job I would like to use it for. It seems I'll put a little more time and a fair amount more money towards the machine budget.

That is exactly what you need to do. Congratulations on figuring this out before you wasted a lot of money on inadequate machines, learning it the hard way.

[Colt W Knight]

Leatherworking is not a cheap hobby. I got into it wanting to make a few simple guitar straps. Now I have thousands of dollars worth of stuff.

[dikman]

Jersey, you may have just saved yourself from a possibly expensive mistake. On our (local) selling site, there are many industrial machines for sale, some at a good price. Many say that they can sew leather, and they're probably right - to a point. It's only when you start reading, and asking people who have the experience, that you realise that the sort of leather they can sew is invariably not what most of us want to use i.e they are designed for thin garment leather. 99% of what I've looked at have been high speed straight stitchers, and until recently I wouldn't have known the difference!

So give it plenty of thought and accept the fact that it will probably cost you more than you originally intended to spend - but it will be worth it.

[oltoot]

Always​ ​buy more than you think you need cause you will invariably want to do more, not less

[Red Cent]

Jersey, this post mirrors my foray into leather craft. I also had a price of a Tippman as a high. After doing a lot of research and a lot of "Oh cr....!" moments I bought a Cobra 4. Bunch over your stated price to pay but if you can, work it out. Length of arm/throat really changes the price.

As you might know there are a number of names that sell the same machine. A whistle there and a bell here, but they are a copy of the Juki 441. 1/2" or less ain't much leather.

[Colt W Knight]

Jersey, this post mirrors my foray into leather craft. I also had a price of a Tippman as a high. After doing a lot of research and a lot of "Oh cr....!" moments I bought a Cobra 4. Bunch over your stated price to pay but if you can, work it out. Length of arm/throat really changes the price.

As you might know there are a number of names that sell the same machine. A whistle there and a bell here, but they are a copy of the Juki 441. 1/2" or less ain't much leather.

When I bought my consew 206, which can sew 3/8" leather, I thought to myself - I can't imagine needing to sew more than 3/8" of leather. I didn't have the machine 2 weeks before I was needing to sew more than 3/8" leather.

[JLSleather]

On the other hand, I sold my 206RB-5, figured I'd need the extra space. Big mistake.. always coming across something where i coulda used that thing ONE more time

[Colt W Knight]

On the other hand, I sold my 206RB-5, figured I'd need the extra space. Big mistake.. always coming across something where i coulda used that thing ONE more time

Im keeping mine to sew Garment leather and smaller stuff when I upgrade to a big machine, but I am a bit of tool hoarder.

[JLSleather]

Im keeping mine to sew Garment leather and smaller stuff when I upgrade to a big machine, but I am a bit of tool hoarder.

I should have kept mine,too. I could afford both machines, but didn't think I could afford the addition on the shop!

[dikman]

didn't think I could afford the addition on the shop!

Tell me about it! Since I was given that first machine, I now have 3 industrial-grade machines (and we all know how much room they take up), a Chinese shoe patcher, a Singer 201 (domestic) and a nice little Necchi that I was just given - and no-where to put them!!

So my wife and I reached an agreement - I sold my glasshouse and will put a 5 metre x 3 metre shed there instead to house these things. As a bonus, it will also let me set up a decent reloading area too.

Amazing how quickly things can get out of hand......

[billybopp]

Somebody outta invent a stand that will hold multiple machines 'n let you rotate them so that the one you want to use is on top, the others down and out of the way.

Bill

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

I'm enjoying the comradery here...

I don't have anything to offer but that I've seen the same thing when a speed reducer is introduced to a $200 range type motor.

I only have a theory, and only that, but for example Efka motors have what would be called a positioning speed setting. This is, as you can imagine, where you could set the speed for needle positioning. For example, machine runs at 2000 RPM, but the motor is set to position the handwheel at say 400 RPM. This is an example of one of many many settings, but just understand, that this is considered a condition, or mode, if you will. None of these motors have provisions for this that are in the $200 range, and do not really need to for what they do in most cases.

I think what may be happening is that the speed reducer is making it take too long to position the needle, and that the motor my be giving a motor blockage signal and shutting down the motor with an error message. Almost like a time out error. Again, this is only my own theory, and I really have not pinned this down. I don't know what else it could be when considering these motor work properly otherwise, without the speed reducer setup.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing