#138 Thread And Frustration!

[dikman]

I'm making another holster (for a single action revolver), so this time I figured I should use my machines rather than hand stitch. I reckon that #138 thread will look a bit better than #69 (realistically #138 is the heaviest my machines will probably handle). I wanted to use the Pfaff 335, because I'll need the cylinder arm to do part of it, but it just doesn't seem to like #138!! After a few stitches the top thread is snagging somewhere down below and cutting a couple of strands - not good. I tried with #138 top and bottom, #138 on top and #69 on the bottom but it still happens. I tried a size 16 needle (yes, I know, it's too small but I had to try everything I had), size 18 and size 22 but it still happens.

I then tried the 211G166, and that worked fine with the heavier thread and size 18 needle - but the flat bed won't let me stitch the holster when it's folded over (because the edge of the holster doesn't sit flat).

Has anyone used #138 on a Pfaff 335? The machine's got plenty of grunt behind it, it's just the thread it doesn't like!

The only options I can come up with are

1) hand stitch it (no big deal, it's a lot smaller than doing a belt) or

2) machine stitch as much as I can and then hand stitch the folded double edge - but I would have to use the #138 thread for uniformity.

At the moment I'm tending towards 1.

[gottaknow]

I would check the hook timing. Different sizes of thread form different size loops. The best way to ensure easy transitions using multiple sizes is to set the timing as perfect as you can. Pay special attention to the hook to needle setting. At proper needle rise, your hook point should be centered in the deepest portion of the needle scarf. Also make sure that the needle guard on your hook is preventing the hook from contacting your needle when you push it towards the hook. "Touch but not deflect" was drilled into my head during my apprenticeship.

From there, check your latch opener adjustment. It gets tighter with larger thread. Use a 21 or 22 needle.

Regards, Eric

[CowboyBob]

The Pfaff isn't designed for thread larger than #92,it doesn't have a latch opener so it gets hung up in the position finger.

[dikman]

Thanks Bob, I wondered if there was something in the design causing the problem. While I realise that it operates differently to the 211 (horizontal vs vertical shuttle, for one thing) I don't have the depth of knowledge of these things to understand the subtleties involved. It works fine with #69, so I'll leave it at that (and at least I know why it's happening, which is the main thing).

Eric, I went to a lot of trouble getting the timing right. I guess doubling the thread size could require re-adjustments, but in this case, based on what Bob said, there's not much point messing around with it. Even if I got it working it sounds like it might not be reliable for long runs. But thanks for the advice, it's all useful info.

I'd already come to the conclusion that I'll probably have to hand stitch it and this just confirms it. I'll save the machines for belts, I guess.

[Kohlrausch]

I'm making another holster (for a single action revolver), so this time I figured I should use my machines rather than hand stitch. I reckon that #138 thread will look a bit better than #69 (realistically #138 is the heaviest my machines will probably handle). I wanted to use the Pfaff 335, because I'll need the cylinder arm to do part of it, but it just doesn't seem to like #138!! After a few stitches the top thread is snagging somewhere down below and cutting a couple of strands - not good. I tried with #138 top and bottom, #138 on top and #69 on the bottom but it still happens. I tried a size 16 needle (yes, I know, it's too small but I had to try everything I had), size 18 and size 22 but it still happens.

Has anyone used #138 on a Pfaff 335? The machine's got plenty of grunt behind it, it's just the thread it doesn't like!

Hi,

while I don't have a Pfaff 335, I do have a Pfaff 130. A flatbedmachine using the same hook and bobbins. My Pfaff 130 will happily sew size 138 thread with a size 22 needle. It will sew six layers of 3oz upholstery leather with size 92 thread in an size 18 needle and it will sew 16 layers of 19oz/squareyard truck tarpaulin with size 50 thread and size 18 needles. Same thread top and bottom. It did rip the topthread an a regular basis when exceeding 4 layers of upholstery leather until I searched the machine with magnifying glasses and meticulously sanded off and polished every slight burr in the threadguides. So I guess, technically it's like new or better now. With my motor setup I can't go as slow as is regularly recommended here for leather and when testing for the truck tarpaulin I coud see the thread smoke off when I exceeded the aformementioned limits. My Pfaff 30 would do 20 layers of truck tarpaulin, the 130 not.

You should make sure there are no scratches or burrs on any parts that touch the thread, particularly tension disks, needle guides, pressure feet and needle hole in the stitching plate. Polish everything until it shines. Make sure the shank of the needle and the opening in the pressure foot don't touch or you might guillotine your thread.

Greets

Ralf C.

[gottaknow]

The Pfaff isn't designed for thread larger than #92,it doesn't have a latch opener so it gets hung up in the position finger.

Yep, wrong model in my head.

Regards, Eric

[JLSleather]

ON a couple of ocassions, I have been known to poke the holes with the machine, then "chase" the holes with an awl while I hand sew it. I agree.. it's just a holster -- not like sewing the entire belt that way.

Much as I like "matching", I would not like a holster stitched with less than 207, nor would I offer one for sale. I usually use 277, but I could "live with" 207.

[shoepatcher]

You can sew #138 thread on a Pfaff 335. Mine is set up to do sewing with a #23 round point needle. It is just in how you set up the machine. Works fine.

glenn

[Hockeymender]

You can sew #138 thread on a Pfaff 335. Mine is set up to do sewing with a #23 round point needle. It is just in how you set up the machine. Works fine.

glenn

Yep.....what Glenn said.

[dikman]

Blast! Just when I thought I had it sorted you guys come along and say it should work! Looks like a bit more experimenting is in order.

Just a thought, are you chaps referring to older models or newer ones? (Don't know what differences there might be between them).

JLS, that's exactly what I'm doing! I used the WSV77 to run the holes around the edge, which makes it much easier (and neater) to use the awl and needles. I must admit that I had reservations about using #138 thread, but because I had the machines I figured I should use them. I feel happier knowing I'll have more substantial thread on the holster itself. (I used the WSV77 because I can get down to 4 1/2 spi, the other machines will only go to 6 1/2 spi).

[shoepatcher]

Dikman,

Check the amount of opening you have on the bobbin case finger and the U it fits into. As Eric said, you want the finger to just be held in that U opening. #138 thread is considered a heavy thread. You also want to check that the needle goes down into the slot in the hook and does not ouch either side of the opening if possible. I had to move the needle bar ever so slightly from left to right to get everything line up on a 335 we have at work. We used a #23 needle and #138 thread. lining everything up did take some time with this thread but it works fine.

glenn

[dikman]

Thanks for the info, Glenn. I'll have a play with it later.

[dikman]

Knowing that it should work, I figured I'd buy some different thread to try. I bought a small spool of Serafin size 20 (138, same size as the other thread). Cranked it over by hand and after four stitches it caught and broke! Ok, try again, this time it did a dozen with no issues so I turned on the power and did about 20 or so, with no problems. Did another run and it too was fine, so it looks like there's basically nothing wrong with the machine.

Comparing the threads was interesting. The Serafin is twisted poly, so pretty normal, the other thread, however, is a braided polyester. I picked this up as cleared stock from a bootmaking factory that had closed. Nice thread, really strong stuff, but I'd hazard a guess that my machine doesn't like the braided thread - maybe the braids are opening slightly when it's down in the bobbin area? Doesn't really matter, at least I can get it working.

I'll try the braided stuff on the Singer flatbeds, It might work better with a vertical shuttle.

[Darren Brosowski]

Interesting comment from Bob. My experience with the 335 is mostly with older machines and I have never had a problem with M20 - #138.

In many ways it is very similar to the Singer 155/Seiko LSC so I am not sure why it would be limited to #92 - M30

The Serafil should work better than a braided thread so I suspect that either the timing is out a touch or there is damage on the shuttle hook somewhere.

[dikman]

While it looks like it's now working ok, I'll take your and Bob's advice and re-check the timing and give the shuttle area another (closer) once over - just to make sure.

[dikman]

Just tried the braided #138 on the Singer G166 and it works fine on that machine. I had a feeling that it might like the vertical shuttle design better.