My tips for a "machine" look with Saddle Stitch

[DonorLeather]

In my opinion punching holes at an angle and pounding the thread flat is more of a Buck Stitch style mixed with a saddle stitch. The saddle stitch doesn't mean its from/for a saddle, though it could be used for that.... it means the threads "saddle" one another, or one on top of the other. A buck stitch uses slotted holes that are usually angled to create a diamond pattern in your sewing. I've worked leather professionally for 25 years and have done just about every kind of stitch or lace there is. This is just one example of a professional looking stitch that has been hand sewn.

6 hours ago, Martyn said:

Why would you want to do that? Surely one of the main benefits of saddle stitching is the beautiful pattern it makes? Also, if you align your stitches in a straight line, you loose the strength advantage of an angled saddle stitch. I'm not even sure you would call it a saddle stitch any more, just a double running stitch. There is artistry and beauty is a well done saddle stitch, flattening it, sterilises it IMO. I try and avoid flattening it, I dont use grovers and even scratch my stitch line ever-so-lightly so it wont mess with the lay of the stitch. I've spent hours and hours practising so I get a nice angle front and back. If I'd got a flat stitch, I'd consider the piece scrapped - or I'd unpick and re-stitch if it could be salvaged. Why would you want to hide the fact that it's been done by hand? I'm baffled.

Also in my opinion, just because something is made by hand doesn't mean it has to be erratic and un-uniform. Take the painting of the last supper for example, just because its hand painted does this mean that some of the  persons depicted should look like stick figures, while others are highly detailed and life like?

The saddle stitch is also used in book making (which I also do) and doesn't even resemble the stitching I posted above. Yet you are inevitably only happy with what your happy with.

 

[Martyn]

 

 

5 hours ago, DonorLeather said:

 it means the threads "saddle" one another, or one on top of the other.

Exactly so, but your method lays the stitch out flat, one behind the other. I dont know how you are making your holes, but if you are using a traditional pricking iron, then the angle of your stitch is set by the iron and never flat. Doesnt matter whose iron you use, Dixons, Geo.Barnsley, Blanchard, Osbourne or whoever, they are always set at an angle.

 

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Also in my opinion, just because something is made by hand doesn't mean it has to be erratic and un-uniform.

 

I agree completely. Properly done, a saddle stitch is every bit as uniform and neat as a machine, but it never looks like a machine has done it and doesnt need to. Looking like it has been done by hand, doesnt mean looking rough - quite the opposite. That's the point, you dont need to lay the stitch flat in order to achieve neatness and uniformity. Saddle stitching done properly...

 

 

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The saddle stitch is also used in book making (which I also do) and doesn't even resemble the stitching I posted above.

 

Isn't that a case of same term, totally different thing? I thought saddle binding was a reference to the way the pages are laid out - one inside the other - and then 'stitching' them together through the crease with staples, thread or whatever. It's just a coincidence of terminology and not a reference to a particular stitch.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Martyn

[Trox]

I totally agree with Martyn here, the saddle stitch should be sewn in an angle by using an European pricking wheel or iron (needle and awl). That's the only way it should be done. If you want a staight seam, use a sewing machine (of course you also have angled needle points for that to like LR and LL) If a customer wants to pay me extra for hand sewing, I do not want to make it look like it's  sewn it on a machine. A saddle stitch with most SPI is the highest regarded work, the best looking and strongest seam there is (done the proper way). Then it must be sewn in an angle, straight you make it weaker and you have to use longer stitches. In the old times bridles was saddle stitched by hand with 14 SPI, you cannot achieve that laying the stitches flat like that. Teach it the right way or do not teach it at all.

Tor

[johnv474]

My understanding is this:

The British and European school of saddle stitching has the angled stitches, popularized in part by Nigel Armitage's (excellent) videos on Youtube. Hermes is credited with "inventing" or putting a name to this method. This style also tends toward higher spi (7-9+) and finer holes/thread, a la Blanchard.

The American/Western style of stitching has flatter/straighter stitches, a la Stohlman's instructions. Examples by katsass, among others here on the forum, illustrate this. This style tends toward lower spi (5-7), bigger holes and thicker thread.

Neither school of thought is inherently superior to the other, and the strength of either is not terribly different. I personally prefer slanted stitches visually.

[cjmt]

I think it's fair to say that saddle stitch predates Nigel Armatage, Hermes or in fact America! It's centuries old, and there are 19th century slanted prick irons in daily use to prove the point. Saddlers came long before fashion houses!

If the American style is for long flat stitches it comes from Tandy kits with pre punched holes. Look at photos of old gun leather, it'll have slanted stitches

Trying to make a hand stitch look like a machine stitch that's itself poorly imitating hand stitching strikes me as slightly farcical..

[johnv474]

It is beyond dispute that the saddle stitch predates any of those people, though no one said otherwise.

Opinions are, likewise, beyond dispute.

Are slanted stitches created by machine superior to straight stitching done by hand? We all could imagine that such a discussion would quickly lead to a fruitless, but very vocal, dead end.

[Martyn]

I dont think the issue of slanted versus straight is really the point here. What we have is an attempt to make a hand stitch imitate a machine stitch. The question is why when hand made double running stitch is always superior to a machine made lock stitch? The only reason the OP is stitching in a straight line is to imitate the aesthetic of a typical machine stitch. The title of the thread is 'machine look with saddle stitch'. The question is why? As cjmt said, why would you want to make a superior hand stitch look like an inferior machine stitch? It's like saying 'my tips for making something that has been well made, look like it's been not as well made'.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Martyn

[cjmt]

5 hours ago, johnv474 said:

It is beyond dispute that the saddle stitch predates any of those people, though no one said otherwise.

Opinions are, likewise, beyond dispute.

Are slanted stitches created by machine superior to straight stitching done by hand? We all could imagine that such a discussion would quickly lead to a fruitless, but very vocal, dead end.

I think your missing the point. Its not machine v hand, its saddle stitch v lock stitch. Saddle stitch is a better, stronger stitch, thats why we do it. Fundamentally, this is equivalent to trying to spot weld somthing to make it look it was done in a factory by a robot, rather than seam weld it, but take the time to learn to do it properly so its not only stronger but prettier.

[JeannieH]

I'm new to leatherworking...I'm currently learning to handstitch. I normally use my cylinder bed for making my bags. However, I decided to purchase reverse pricking irons to use when topstitching. By hand that is. I prefer the look of the "machine look saddle stitch" over the slanted. I may machine stitch a part that will be seen...but also need to hand stitch a part on the same bag. I rather they match. So this is my reasons for doing a machine look stitch. So thank you Donorleather for this post. There are so many ways to do things...the saddle stitch has its place...and a machine look saddle stitch does as well!

[CZoc]

I  have to say, this discussion has been awesome! Reading the different theories, experience, methods , opinions on stitching leather from folks that I consider experts is inspiring to me !

I'm considered a subject matter expert in a completely different industry and I participate in these types of conversations way too often. The technology industry is advancing so fast, these discussions typically end up with the guy who knows the latest R&D development carries the topic. Guys like me are relegated to the "old school ways" and I often take offence.... So when I hear (read)  people like you discussing a historical method or tradition of craftsmanship - it rings true ! Its unmistakable ! The perfect blend of fact, history, pride in craftsmanship and you lead the way.

Im not an expert in leather work, but you provide the education and opportunity on a subject that can NOT be dictated by technology. Some things are truly valued because they have stood the test of time and tradition, and those things needs to be kept alive!

Seriously - Bravo to you all for keeping it all alive!

NOW, have any of you measured the shear strength of a saddle stitch VS a straight stitch using dual-column gas chromatograph, Hewlett-Packard model 5710a with flame analyzing detectors????