recommended stamps Engraver turned Leather worker

[EngraverGuy]

I am 65 years old. I am a former gun engraver from Europe, Fabrique Nationale', and the USA. I am pretty good as I never finished worse than 2nd in the National Engraver Guild competitions. I do 13 different styles of floral work. So the floral aspects should come quickly. The layout should be a non-issue. The shading perspective as well. But the tools are entirely different. The application of the tools is entirely different. I am wondering if anyone can recommend about 20 stamps to get started. I do not mean the manufacturer, but the veiner, background, camouflage, etc.  I will not buy Tandy. I live near the FT. Worth shop so convenience and price is not an issue.

* I would like to also include a couple of basketweave stamps in this. 18-22 would be ideal.

* I planned to focus on Barry King and ProCrafters especially for the basket-weaves. But size is an issue? 

* Maybe the Gomph Hackbarth set of 15 for $145 is a starting point. If the Hackbarth set sounds like a good idea, then perhaps let's add 15 more?

Thanks much! I had to give up engraving so this really helps the 'ole man, 

Steve

(P.S. I got the tapered Barry King 14oz mallet and his swivel knife)

[Ferg]

Love it!!!

Have always enjoyed looking at this fabulous art form. I have never been talented enough to do the work you have accomplished.

Leatherwork should be a cinch for you in the carving field.

I have some of the Gomph Hackbarth tools, they are very good tools and that set is a good place to begin.

Ferg

[GPG]

Beautiful , absolutely Beautiful work  !!!!!  nothing more to say on this matter. Yes I have more to say "ABSOLUTLY BEAUTIFUL WORK" THANKS FOR SHOWING!

[EngraverGuy]

Thanks GPG and Ferg. But I am here in the US for many years, and this work is not as appreciated so I need to at least find a new hobby. I think I have a head start. I graduated from an art university in French Belgium. But as I said, transferring what I have to leather is another story. 

I will order the Hackbarth set tomorrow, and hopefully someone can give me more clues to fill out a reasonable set. What are Hide Crafter tools like?

[Thor]

Welcome to the forum. Very few things are leaving me speechless. Your engraving did.

Looking at your work I was wondering if you wouldn't want to have a look at pyrography. What some people do there in combination with tooling is just unbelievable. A professional set will run you about $600.

As far as I know Hide Crafter has gone out of production, but you can find them here http://proleathercarvers.com/tools/pro-crafters-series.html or here which is even cheaper https://www.stecksstore.com/brands/Hidecrafter.html. I'm having a few of them. They are good stamps, but still a step or two down from Barry King's. 

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by Thor

[TigerPal]

Stunningly beautiful engraving..... Just transfer that skill to leather work   LOL

[EngraverGuy]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

Welcome to the forum. Very few things are leaving me speechless. Your engraving did.

Looking at your work I was wondering if you wouldn't want to have a look at pyrography. What some people do there in combination with tooling is just unbelievable. A professional set will run you about $600.

As far as I know Hide Crafter has gone out of production, but you can find them here http://proleathercarvers.com/tools/pro-crafters-series.html or here which is even cheaper https://www.stecksstore.com/brands/Hidecrafter.html. I'm having a few of them. They are good stamps, but still a step or two down from Barry King's. 

 

Thank you Thor and Tigerpal. I looked at a guy in Italy doing it. It is somewhat similar in that it is called bulino in engraving, or "banknote". It is simply about applying the appropriate intensity of shading, through what could be described as pricks of the metal (dots and short lines). It seems the same principle when I saw him doing it. It might make for interesting combinations of floral and pyrography. I think that would be my second training issue. Again, the concept is similar, but different tools. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by EngraverGuy

[Martyn]

Absolutely stunning!

When you are at the top of your game like that, it must be very difficult to give it up.

Can I ask, how many hours in these guns and how do you figure out a price for something like that? Do you charge by the inch or for the project as a whole?

Edited April 12, 2016 by Martyn

[Martyn]

16 hours ago, EngraverGuy said:

* I planned to focus on Barry King and ProCrafters especially for the basket-weaves. But size is an issue?

I cant help with your other questions as I'm a novice and have no experience, but I've just bought my first BK basket stamp and can give you a size reference...

It's a number 2 Celtic basket stamp, according to my verniers it's 12mm x 5mm...

 

Leatherman Charge for scale...

 

 

Please forgive my poor stamping, but here's a closeup of the impressions...

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by Martyn

[Colt W Knight]

Your engraving is absolutely fantastic. You wont have any trouble transferring over to leather.  As far as tools, check out a fellow named Clay Miller, along with Barry King, Jerimiah Watt, and Bob Beard. Older, USA made craftools can be quite nice as well. You are use to doing quality work, so you will know that good tools are a paramount and unlike most of us who start off with cheap Tandy stuff and work our way up, youll probably want to start with the good stuff. Barry King is the only with a useful website.

 

Check out Leatherburnishers.com for nice burnishers and mauls.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Colt W Knight

[EngraverGuy]

Martyn, are you kidding! That basketweave looks a lot better than most I see in instructional videos and matches the best I've seen. I am no expert but it is very clean!

Thanks for the perspective.

[EngraverGuy]

6 hours ago, Colt W Knight said:

Your engraving is absolutely fantastic. You wont have any trouble transferring over to leather.  As far as tools, check out a fellow named Clay Miller, along with Barry King, Jerimiah Watt, and Bob Beard. Older, USA made craftools can be quite nice as well. You are use to doing quality work, so you will know that good tools are a paramount and unlike most of us who start off with cheap Tandy stuff and work our way up, youll probably want to start with the good stuff. Barry King is the only with a useful website.

Check out Leatherburnishers.com for nice burnishers and mauls.

Thanks Colt! I agree. I am not going to waste my money on the cheap stuff. Thanks for the link and advice.

[EngraverGuy]

I need to point out a few things here. First is I have not done much engraving since 1990. I started at age 23. I had the best teachers there in Europe who "held my hand" and guided me. So that was an advantage. Unlike most here, I had a lot of help. Lastly, all 3 of these projects in total (not all parts are shown) took eight months to a year to complete. You can't do that in leather work. So I know the art to a degree, but the leaf work isn't necessarily the same. But I can duplicate it I am sure. In no way do I know anyting about effectively applying the leather working skills. I appreciate your comments, but I have quite a learning-curve ahead of me. 

 

Here are some floral samples I think are fantastic. In truth as an engraver, I tried to keep background to about 25-30% of the space. Some styles required a little more, but as a general rule. I think the first two may approach 35+% but still look fantastic. I hope I can achieve this level someday.

[Martyn]

52 minutes ago, EngraverGuy said:

Martyn, are you kidding! That basketweave looks a lot better than most I see in instructional videos and matches the best I've seen. I am no expert but it is very clean!

Thanks for the perspective.

Well then I guess that's why people buy Barry King stamps because it's only the third time I've done any.

[Bob Blea]

1 hour ago, EngraverGuy said:

Thanks Colt! I agree. I am not going to waste my money on the cheap stuff. Thanks for the link and advice.

EngraverGuy, if you go to Barry King's website he has a list of recommended starter tools for making Sheridan style carvings.  That set would be a good place to start for this kind of tooling.  There is also a book called "Sheridan Style Carving" that goes into great detail about how the tools are used to achieve specific effects.  You may find that book to be very useful too.

Best of luck, your engraving looks phenomenal. 

Bob

[EngraverGuy]

17 minutes ago, Bob Blea said:

EngraverGuy, if you go to Barry King's website he has a list of recommended starter tools for making Sheridan style carvings.  That set would be a good place to start for this kind of tooling.  There is also a book called "Sheridan Style Carving" that goes into great detail about how the tools are used to achieve specific effects.  You may find that book to be very useful too.

Best of luck, your engraving looks phenomenal. 

Bob

Thanks for the tip. I will do that right now. I compared Martyn's stamping to the Hide Crafters tool and I like the King stamp better. Specifically I like the shading at the junction of the weave better. It is shorter and the slope area cleaner. So King it is!

[EngraverGuy]

On 4/12/2016 at 6:34 AM, Martyn said:

Absolutely stunning!

When you are at the top of your game like that, it must be very difficult to give it up.

Can I ask, how many hours in these guns and how do you figure out a price for something like that? Do you charge by the inch or for the project as a whole?

Hi Martyn, all three took well over 6 months. The top two took approximately 1 year. There is more work than shown. The "bulino" engraving on the first two takes a long time. It is just pricks in the metal at varying depths, but slow work. I would guess 1400 hours on the bottom piece and 1600+ on the top two shotguns. I gave it up for 3 fold reasons. First, a competitor tried to destroy my reputation. Secondly, the last customer owed me for a year of work and I never got the 2/3 money still owed. Lastly, because I started an art casting foundry. It was a fairly quick process but all three contributed. I did get the last laugh with the jerk. 

Edited April 23, 2016 by EngraverGuy

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Engraver Guy, first, welcome to the forum, second, your engraving is ..., well, it transcends words.  Your choice of saddlemakers, and toolers to emulate, bespeaks of a great deal of experience in engraving, and a good eye.  It should transfer into leather very nicely.  Given your level of artistry in metal, I would suggest you try to achieve that same look in leather. By the way, one of our most notable saddlemakers, was also an engraver, Al Stohlman.  Truly something to behold. Please post your work as you progress, and don't wait till it is done, pic along the way are of great interest.  Enjoy the ride!

Bob

[Martyn]

On 23/04/2016 at 7:22 AM, EngraverGuy said:

Hi Martyn, all three took well over 6 months. The top two took approximately 1 year. There is more work than shown. The "bulino" engraving on the first two takes a long time. It is just pricks in the metal at varying depths, but slow work. I would guess 1400 hours on the bottom piece and 1600+ on the top two shotguns. I gave it up for 3 fold reasons. First, a competitor tried to destroy my reputation. Secondly, the last customer owed me for a year of work and I never got the 2/3 money still owed. Lastly, because I started an art casting foundry. It was a fairly quick process but all three contributed. I did get the last laugh with the jerk. 

Man, having 1500+ hours in one project, is pretty much the definition of all your eggs in one basket, there must be 10's of thousands of dollars in each one? It must be soul destroying when some jerk pulls a trick like that - not to mention, the impact it must have on your cash flow. Do they provide the gun? I would be tempted to get them to sign something that says I keep the gun until the balance is settled and if it isn't settled in 12 months, the gun is mine. Could you not get a contract with someone reliable like Purdey of something?

[EngraverGuy]

18 hours ago, Martyn said:

Man, having 1500+ hours in one project, is pretty much the definition of all your eggs in one basket, there must be 10's of thousands of dollars in each one? It must be soul destroying when some jerk pulls a trick like that - not to mention, the impact it must have on your cash flow. Do they provide the gun? I would be tempted to get them to sign something that says I keep the gun until the balance is settled and if it isn't settled in 12 months, the gun is mine. Could you not get a contract with someone reliable like Purdey of something?

Yes, that would be the case. But the government seemed to think they had first claim. It was tough. At that time I got paid about $40,000 for each job. Today similar engravers are getting paid twice that. It seems that in our economy the rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer. I have no other explanation because there is now more and more elaborate work than before. I worked for the "landed gentry" of Europe, but here they work for the "new" rich.

And. yes, they provide the guns. I first worked for Fabrique Nationale' in Herstal Belgium, then went to Francotte. Some of these houses made double rifles or even over & under rifles, and all made shotguns that were side-by-side or over-under.  Holland & Holland, Boss, and Purdey of England, Beretta, Fabbri, Perazzi were other popular models for engraving.

 

Edited April 25, 2016 by EngraverGuy

[EngraverGuy]

On 4/23/2016 at 8:55 AM, BondoBobCustomSaddles said:

Engraver Guy, first, welcome to the forum, second, your engraving is ..., well, it transcends words.  Your choice of saddlemakers, and toolers to emulate, bespeaks of a great deal of experience in engraving, and a good eye.  It should transfer into leather very nicely.  Given your level of artistry in metal, I would suggest you try to achieve that same look in leather. By the way, one of our most notable saddlemakers, was also an engraver, Al Stohlman.  Truly something to behold. Please post your work as you progress, and don't wait till it is done, pic along the way are of great interest.  Enjoy the ride!

Bob

Thanks Bob. I hope to do well. 

[jrny4wrd]

On April 12, 2016 at 3:14 PM, EngraverGuy said:

I need to point out a few things here. First is I have not done much engraving since 1990. I started at age 23. I had the best teachers there in Europe who "held my hand" and guided me. So that was an advantage. Unlike most here, I had a lot of help. Lastly, all 3 of these projects in total (not all parts are shown) took eight months to a year to complete. You can't do that in leather work. So I know the art to a degree, but the leaf work isn't necessarily the same. But I can duplicate it I am sure. In no way do I know anyting about effectively applying the leather working skills. I appreciate your comments, but I have quite a learning-curve ahead of me. 

 

Here are some floral samples I think are fantastic. In truth as an engraver, I tried to keep background to about 25-30% of the space. Some styles required a little more, but as a general rule. I think the first two may approach 35+% but still look fantastic. I hope I can achieve this level someday.

Im not sure how all the metal engraving works but in complete blindness it seems you may be able to put both engraving knowledge and leather tooling to work by empossing with plugs. In fact, I may be wrong but it seems the one with the horse may be embossed.