Wicket and Craig salesman

[jrny4wrd]

Which sales person do you work with at Wicket and Craig and what is it you like about them? 

[MADMAX22]

Think Ive worked with most of them, not a issue with any of them. I usually know exactly what I am ordering ahead of time so there isnt much conversating. Tell them what I want, give them my info and wait for delivery. Anyone of the sales staff have readily answered the few questions I have had on that rare occasion.  

[JLSleather]

Don't think it matters, though it may be a plus to try to get the same person each time you order.  It's easier for them AND you if the person you talk to is familiar with the way you want the order handled... saves the trouble of explaining what you want to the next person.

 

[Red Cent]

".....the way you want the order handled."

 

Say what!!!

Shopping for leather is a roll of the dice. You never know what you will get. JLS, I went back to a leather supplier and thought, maybe, I will get some good stuff. Spongy again. Tried twice to order from W&C and both time was told they were shut down and could not/will not ship for a few weeks. So I trek back down to Ramseur and hand pick a couple of sides, a cheap double shoulder, and some other stuff.

Now I see where you are returning HO leather. Holy.............!!

Having said all of that, have you seen the sales that Tandy has going on? Might make a trip to Raleigh.

 

[JLSleather]

Hey, Red

When I say, "the way you want it", I'm referring to the fact that if I deal with largely one person, then he would know what weight or combination of weights I want, etc.  I've got some W/C in teh past I wasn't happy about, but also some BEAUTIFUL leather. 

But the HO I've been less than pleased with was from somebody OTHER THAN Hermann Oak.  I swear, I've seen "B" grade hides that look like they were ddragged down a gravel road on the grain side.  Spongey, uneven thickness, soft spots, thin spots, discolorations, scratches that span the hide (one was so bad, I had to scratch my head for a bit to get three belts out of it).

Basically, I can only blame myself.  The first time, maybe even twice... you didn't know. But keep going back (to anybody) after that... and it's no longer THEIR fault entirely. 

As a rule, I try to get my leather from HO or W/C from the tannery.  But occasionally, like this week, I run short on some weight, or drum dyed color.  And I've tried MOST of the suppliers discussed around here at least once.  Goliger has sent me good leather -- and some not so good.  SLC has sent me some decent leather -- and some I couldn't believe they even bothered to ship.  A couple sides from Weaver were SO bad I have never asked them about leather again.  And RJF.. once was enough.  I didn't even send it back.. just laid it on the floor for the dog to be sure I'd always remember it.  Shoot, I've even picked up some good leather at Tandy on occasion (I used a LOT of their Royal Meadow carving leather over the years... which of course discontinued now).

I "get" it... leather isn't flawless.  Even "A" grade from the tannery got SOME marks / blemishes.  But I've never needed to return leather from H.O.  Still not "flawless", but at $9/ft (backs, not sides) if I pitch a little out I can take it   Because $9 is not $12 or $15 (translation 33% and 65% markup).

If I could work that out, I'd ONLY buy leather that I can see myself.  But doesn't usually work out that way.  

My recent threads weren't about leather quality so much as disbelief that anyone would pay $15 - $18 per foot for leather that doesn't even CLAIM to be top of the line.  A guy kin do what he wants with his money, but i don't get it.  STILL, the intent is not to badmouth any supplier, so much as to INFORM the new guy that there's no need to pay that much.  You and I know that, but lots of folks (particularly here) may not.

I'm willing to accept the possiblity that I'm talking to myself, though.  I've told people where and how they can find good leather for markedly UNDER $10/ft.  I've even offered to let go of some great leather that I'm LOOKING at for my cost... but - guy's gonna do what he's gonna do

 

 

[RockyAussie]

Are you talking to someone JLS? ..........Ha Ha That's all the point on coming to this forum.

[JLSleather]

Maybe would have been easier to just say "Call Matt".  People still wouldn't do it, and I would have saved the time writing that post

 

[jrny4wrd]

This is the thing. I don't quite know how they work their bulk prices in so I am completely ignorant to the fact. You get something from Herman oak and they tell you how much you need to buy to get it at said price. With wicket and craig you have to tell them exactly what you want so they can tell you what they will discount. Almost like there is no said list of rules they go by. I mean, I guess it could get difficult if someone was to order a mix of different tanages and we are pretty fortunate that they even go out of their way to sell us singles. I may be projecting because I know I am a little guy but I always feel like they are "in the air" with time frame and such that I wonder if they just take a guess because Im really just a small guy and a waste of time to check. Again, it may just be me. Its pretty hard though when u are not a retailer but rather a craftsman because the finances are not always a month advance of ordering. Plus, its rare I even know what weight I am going to need. Since I make so much different stuff. Again, I'm not trying to put them down because I am certain us small guys are a pain in their ars. I guess its just a matter of getting up the dollars to get bulk so that you can figure in the time frame better. Being new to them I am testing out their stuff slowly. Is there a salesman there that works with leather though? You know, someone whom can answer questions without sounding like they are guessing? 

[Red Cent]

As JLS points out, the sales manager is Matt. First name on the list at W&C. Good luck.

 

http://wickett-craig.com/tooling-holster-carving-pricing/

 

 

 

[MADMAX22]

15 hours ago, jrny4wrd said:

 You know, someone whom can answer questions without sounding like they are guessing? 

Have you talked to them? 

So ya go on a forum to ask others about there "opinion" on the knowledge of a sales person? Everyone is different. Some guys that order leather probably think they know more then  the guy that has worked at a tannery his whole life, others may barely know what veg tan is. 

I personally think you should just call and place a order if you want. There advertised prices are less then any other retail price. If you have the cash to place a large order then you should be calling and arranging the price and shipping anyway. 

I have personally dealt with atleast 2 of the 4 listed sales ladies/men and Matt. I called, told them the 4-6 different hides in what thickness I wanted, gave them my info, got leather within 2 weeks. Oh and the leather is always much better then any retailer I have tried. 

Edited July 29, 2016 by MADMAX22

[jrny4wrd]

Ok. I get it. Its me. I guess I just wish there was a sales person who actually worked with leather. But, I guess there is no point if you know the leather and know exactly what you want. 

[JLSleather]

I've never been aware of any "bulk prices" available.  Possible I'm not writing big enough checks! 

[MADMAX22]

2 hours ago, jrny4wrd said:

Ok. I get it. Its me. I guess I just wish there was a sales person who actually worked with leather. But, I guess there is no point if you know the leather and know exactly what you want. 

I guess I dont really understand what you are really asking for. 

Are you asking for prices that are not listed on there website (bulk orders)? If so then your well beyond the "craftsman" type of business. There prices listed on the website are fair prices compared to any of the standard retailers. HO is a little better pricing if you order there quantities however WC will split a single side down and send it your way if thats what you want. 

If your asking for advice on what leather to use for a specific job/project then I think  that would be a question better suited to the forums here so that you can get input from those who make things all day long as there primary/secondary job. WC like HO has a limited selection (harness/bridle/tooling/latigo....) and pretty much all of these can be split down and back side refinished. Just remember the splitting usually gets in line with current orders so could take a little longer to process your order. Still they have always been within 2 weeks for my orders which is fine considering it has to ship across the country. 

 

[JLSleather]

See, now you're getting into why I said it's easier to deal with the same person as much as is possible.  Your sales rep might then ask -- without going through all of that again - if you would like to order skirting, drum dyed, but not necessarily "struck thru", split to 8 oz thickness, holstered, backs (not sides), ... and all that's left to ask is how many and will there be anything else today

 

[MADMAX22]

Yep thats understandable. I guess I kind of didnt follow exactly what the OP was really asking for. The sales men/ladies at WC have there own extensions and will transfer you to the person you want or if they are gone will pull up your account which has the details from your previous orders (even if its been a while) which ofcourse you have a handle on. 

[jrny4wrd]

In my experience, every company has sales people they prefer and ones they don't. My question was (before too much info) if anyone feels they have the best salesperson there. I do have one but never tried any others because I have a tendancy to just stick with one. No matter what, you order enough from one person and they will start to remember. I only ordered a handfull of times and was given what I wanted. Love their leather and they get you what you want. I really like WC but was curious. As for what I was asking for that rose the question. If there are Bulk discounts or if the price is how it is, which is fare. That is all. I realize now that the question may not be as simple as one thought since they do do a whole lot more than Herman and oak.

[jrny4wrd]

Thank you everybody for taking the time to respond. I will be staying with the same person and just take it as me having distrust in salespeople. I have worked for sales in companies for a long time and just grew a great distrust. It seems to be an issue of mine I have to put aside. Again, thanks.

[JLSleather]

I personally don't want somebody "recommending" stuff for me.  Bought something on ebay once, and got a SLEW of crap.. "you might also like ... blahblah"...

Now, if I'm using the same "guy" all the time, he may be able to suggest.. 'hey-we got that in burgundy now if yer interested' and that might be worth hearing about.

W/C folks don't bother me.  But don't git me started about realtors and insurance "brokers"... can't really come up with a legitimate reason for those at all

Seriously, yer sellin' yer house, and I'm buying it, so some THIRD PARTY gets thousands of dollars WHY ..????!

Then, leather "retail" suppliers are largely the same thing.  W/C sell me a side of EB for about $250.  Knowing that, WHY would I pay someone ELSE to sell me that same side for $300+ ?  Perhaps the only exception being that it's right there in front of me, I might pay the mark-up just so it's "in hand" and I can see what I'm getting when I'm getting it....

 

 

 

 

[pogue44]

Funny you asked this question I had the same question about 6 months ago but didn't ask for any advice.    

I am pretty new to leather working so what I experienced with WC might help someone else.  So here is the story:

Last winter I knew I was going to be driving through PA and past the WC factory so I emailed Matt.  Never heard a word back from him.  Total silence.  So about a week later I randomly picked Elizabeth to e-mail.  She e-mailed me back immediately and was incredibly helpful providing pricing and also sent me some specific samples so I could narrow down choices.  I told her in follow up that I was planning on coming to PA and would it be ok to visit the factory?   She said that was absolutely ok.  Unfortunately she was going to be on vacation on the day I was scheduled to come.  But here is where the top flight customer service kicked in on the part of their sales staff...she handed me off to another sales person who was going to be there who was actually pretty new to the job.  She didn't miss a beat and neither did he.  So when I arrived I had a contact and an ok to do a factory tour and also a source for the product I wanted to purchase.

When I got to WC it was a cold winter day but the factory was warm.  The sales staff gave me a complete factory tour (he spent about an hour with me for the tour and then some more time later also).  Then I had some product questions so he handed me off to some production guys who spent about another hour with me.  Then I wanted to go through some stacks of hides and they took some time to help with that too.  Altogether I was there for probably 3 hours and I left with EXACTLY what I wanted.  I also took home 5 bellies which cost $10 each from the cull piles for me son who is learning leather crafting.

There was no push and no shove out the door, in fact just the opposite, I felt like I could have stayed there longer and they still would have been helpful.  I actually felt bad because I am probably not ever going to be that big of a buyer so I tried to keep my inquiries to a minimum and to what was necessary.  What I can also tell you now was that I learned a TON by actually visiting the factory.  So I am very glad that I went.  I can also tell you that in this journey I talked with or met most of the sales staff.  Never did see Matt.  I'm sure he is a very nice guy, and probably very busy too so he was probably busy you other folks on here who buy a lot more stuff than me

Also along the same lines-

I have had a very similar experience working with the guys at Thoroughbred Leather in Louisville.  I live local to them so I drop by on occasion to ask some questions.  Those guys have been over the top helpful in pointing me in the right direction.  They have also been very patient as I have looked to source stuff in their warehouse.  As most everyone already knows there are subtle differences between TB and WC and I have used both sources with very good success.  

I am really bad about wanting the exact right hide/ color/ thickness for projects so I don't buy anything ever until I see it/ touch/ smell/ taste it (lol).  These two supplies have been excellent to work with.

Hope this helps...

[CaptQuirk]

I used to do sales, auto parts to be exact. I also had to do a lot of "telemarketing" and "cold calling" to get those sales. Those that stuck in and became customers became MY clients. I took their calls, placed their orders, filled them myself, and shipped them. I got to know my clients, their shops and what worked best for them. I even found ways to make some deals that worked out for them.  But, that was a small company, and a long time ago. I miss that interaction.

[JLSleather]

When people "cold call" me, or fill my mail box (electronic or paper) with stuff I didn't ask for, they have cut their own throat.  Even if it's something I intend to buy at some point, theyhave just succeeded in making sure I will get it from someone OTHER than them.

My neighbor's son sells insurance.  But not to me. Guess he figured since I like his dad that was "permission" to send me crap.

Since i"m ALREADY a W/C user, then a guy could appreciate a call from them sayin 'hey, we got some stuff here you might like".. or maybe a flyer in my next package.

But the mediacom "area representative" I didn't ask to come to my door got asked questions for an hour and a half and then told we werent' interested.  He hasn't been back.. What -- that wasn't fun?

 

[CaptQuirk]

 

When people "cold call" me, or fill my mail box (electronic or paper) with stuff I didn't ask for, they have cut their own throat.  Even if it's something I intend to buy at some point, theyhave just succeeded in making sure I will get it from someone OTHER than them.

I totally get that, as I'm the same way. I never cared for cold calling, but it was the best way to get our products and info to the people. I would run into people who hated the cold call, and blow me off. One of them was a shop in Hawaii, who informed me that "they never buy from the mainland", and hung up. I knew from research, that they had to buy used parts from scrap yards, and were paying 4 times as much as the new O.E.M. parts I sold. So, I called back and simply said " I have brand new O.E.M. parts for a quarter of what you are paying for used stuff." A few seconds of silence... "Can you send us a flyer?" They became my client, and were very happy. Even with shipping, they couldn't beat my deal on the Island.

 

 

[MADMAX22]

 

When people "cold call" me, or fill my mail box (electronic or paper) with stuff I didn't ask for, they have cut their own throat.  Even if it's something I intend to buy at some point, theyhave just succeeded in making sure I will get it from someone OTHER than them.

My neighbor's son sells insurance.  But not to me. Guess he figured since I like his dad that was "permission" to send me crap.

Since i"m ALREADY a W/C user, then a guy could appreciate a call from them sayin 'hey, we got some stuff here you might like".. or maybe a flyer in my next package.

But the mediacom "area representative" I didn't ask to come to my door got asked questions for an hour and a half and then told we werent' interested.  He hasn't been back.. What -- that wasn't fun?

 

That is one thing I absolutely can not stand are the ones that come to your front door just because your in a populated neighborhood. Ive got a sign on my front door saying no solicitors which most ignore and try to explain they arent selling anything and just want to chat about opportunities. About 8 months ago had a younger couple selling something and after i told them I wasnt interested in a somewhat polite manner I went to shut my front door and the male put his hand on the door to try and keep it open so he could keep going with his pitch. I pretty much lost it at that point, scared the c out of em. They havnet been back. I cant wait to move out of town.   

[JLSleather]

Oh, yeah.. reach in is a bad plan

That fella above ya ↑ wouldn't fare so well, neither.. call me back to tell me he really can 'help me'... uhh.. no.